Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine President to Investigate Biden's Son

[W_Heisenberg]

Ah, moral and virtuous extortion. Well then never mind.

No. You don't get it.

This is the oath that every President takes:

"I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

And the reason why what Trump is doing is wrong is because he is not preserving, protecting, and defending the Constitution of the United States. Instead, he's preserving, protecting and defending himself. That's why it's wrong. Trump's obligation is to the United States, not to himself.

 

[Acadia]

The lefties on the forum will not recognize the latest article from John Solomon on this subject even though he has been 100% accurate in his investigative reporting of all things Russian collusion delusion. But it is rather telling.

Ukraine’s government under recently departed President Petro Poroshenko and, now, Zelensky had been trying since summer 2018 to hand over evidence about the conduct of Americans they believe might be involved in violations of U.S. law during the Obama years.
The Ukrainians say their efforts to get their allegations/evidence to U.S. authorities were thwarted first by the U.S. embassy in Kiev, which failed to issue timely visas allowing them to visit America. The Ukrainian officials were denied their visas to enter the US in 2018.

Missing piece to the Ukraine puzzle: State Department's overture to Rudy Giuliani | TheHill

Our corrupt ambassador dancing to the tune the Obama administration was playing was part of a coverup of how funds given to Ukraine for fighting corruption were misspent.

US Embassy pressed Ukraine to drop probe of George Soros group during 2016 election | TheHill

It turns out that though Ukraine certainly has a corruption problem it appears that those representing the U.S. and a billionaire activist by the name of George Soros were part of the corruption.

It's rather hard to swallow that Biden's son who ran a hedge fund with then John Kerry's son ends up president on the board of a Ukraine gas company just months after he was booted from the navy for his cocaine use with no past experience in the gas business and was being paid a million a year. Some would look at that as a fairytale.

There's so much to this story that involves corruption in our own government that occurred under Obama that needs to be aired.
Our corrupt Ambassador Yovanovich put in place by the Obama administration was fired by the Trump administration in May 2019 when all of the Ukrainian collusion with the DNC came to light.

Some would look at that as a bribe, or at least one hell of a favor. 2 sons of high-level Obama administration officials get plumb, very high-paying positions in a foreign government. And Joe Biden as Veep didn't have one blessed conversation with his son about oh, what he's been up to...
When Joe Biden was leading official business with Ukraine.
Strains credulity.

The Trump-hating Left might not like what comes out.

 

[Acadia]

No. You don't get it.

This is the oath that every President takes:

"I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

And the reason why what Trump is doing is wrong is because he is not preserving, protecting, and defending the Constitution of the United States. Instead, he's preserving, protecting and defending himself. That's why it's wrong. Trump's obligation is to the United States, not to himself.

Or maybe that oath was exactly what Trump was doing.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

I'd say that Ukraine's report that Trump did not do what's been alleged is pretty much definitive.

1. We have a whistleblower report which the White House is refusing to allow to be transmitted to Congress, in defiance of the law.

2. We have Rudy's admission on national television that he attempted to persuade Ukraine to investigate Biden at Trump's behest.

3. We now have multiple news organizations separately confirming the same story: Trump pressured Ukraine to investigate Biden.

Compare this with Prystaiko's vague response, and we know that you're wrong, it's not "pretty much definitive."

Other than that what's the fuss about?

1. The President is supposed to act in the interests of the United States, not himself:

"I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

2. The President appears to have broken the law when trying to persuade a foreign government to interfere in his election.

3. The WH is, once again, blocking the legitimate and constitutional authority of Congress to oversee the executive branch by withholding the DNI IG's whistleblower's report.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Or maybe that oath was exactly what Trump was doing.

Oh yeah? How so? Be specific. Why do you think Trump demanding a foreign government interfere in a U.S. election by launching an investigation of his main opponent is Trump abiding by his oath?

Let's see your logic.

 

[Mach]

I oppose corruption. Apparently you don't if your guys are doing it.

Why can't you answer simple questions about important topics?

If it’s reasonably evidenced it is quid pro quo, will you oppose trump?

Why not just say yes or no, instead of dodging over and over?

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Some would look at that as a bribe, or at least one hell of a favor. 2 sons of high-level Obama administration officials get plumb, very high-paying positions in a foreign government. And Joe Biden as Veep didn't have one blessed conversation with his son about oh, what he's been up to...
When Joe Biden was leading official business with Ukraine.
Strains credulity.

The Trump-hating Left might not like what comes out.

Read this:

Trump and Giuliani’s Quest for Fake Ukraine "Dirt” on Biden: An Explainer - Just Security

 

[HumblePi]

That is false. Biden literally brags he used his position and that of President Obama to force Ukraine to fire the prosecutor investigating his son or the USA would withhold money. That is a confession by Biden to criminal conduct.

The claim was investigated by Ukraine and found to be without foundation. Trump and Giuliani then tried to extort Ukraine to reverse that conclusion. They failed.

 

[ocean515]

No. You don't get it.

This is the oath that every President takes:

"I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

And the reason why what Trump is doing is wrong is because he is not preserving, protecting, and defending the Constitution of the United States. Instead, he's preserving, protecting and defending himself. That's why it's wrong. Trump's obligation is to the United States, not to himself.

Donald Trump is the President of the United States. Party of his Constitutional Duty is to protect the office of the President, of which he is the occupant.

You probably need to improve your understanding of the Constitution and the Office of the President before posting comments about it.

 

[ocean515]

The claim was investigated by Ukraine and found to be without foundation. Trump and Giuliani then tried to extort Ukraine to reverse that conclusion. They failed.

What was Biden talking about when he admitted he blackmailed Ukraine to stop their investigation into his son?

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Donald Trump is the President of the United States. Party of his Constitutional Duty is to protect the office of the President, of which he is the occupant.

You probably need to improve your understanding of the Constitution and the Office of the President before posting comments about it.

I'm sorry but you should probably improve your understanding of the Constitution before posting comments about it:

The fact that the President has a duty to protect the office of the President doesn't mean the President can do whatever he wants. There are limitations on the power of the executive branch. This is outlined in the Constitution.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

What was Biden talking about when he admitted he blackmailed Ukraine to stop their investigation into his son?

Read this:

Trump and Giuliani’s Quest for Fake Ukraine "Dirt” on Biden: An Explainer - Just Security

 

[Acadia]

1. We have a whistleblower report which the White House is refusing to allow to be transmitted to Congress, in defiance of the law.

2. We have Rudy's admission on national television that he attempted to persuade Ukraine to investigate Biden at Trump's behest.

3. We now have multiple news organizations separately confirming the same story: Trump pressured Ukraine to investigate Biden.

Compare this with Prystaiko's vague response, and we know that you're wrong, it's not "pretty much definitive."



1. The President is supposed to act in the interests of the United States, not himself:

"I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

2. The President appears to have broken the law when trying to persuade a foreign government to interfere in his election.

3. The WH is, once again, blocking the legitimate and constitutional authority of Congress to oversee the executive branch by withholding the DNI IG's whistleblower's report.

Enumerate away. Ukraine denies any pressure or quid pro quo. That cannot be said of the Obama administration.

 

[Kreton]

A sitting president asking a foreign government to investigate his political opponents for political gain.

And people are ok with this?

There is literally nothing Trump can do. The right wingers in this country have no convictions, morals, or ethics. Absolutely disgusting the crap these people support.

 

[HumblePi]

What was Biden talking about when he admitted he blackmailed Ukraine to stop their investigation into his son?

The “massive bribery scheme” Giuliani is referring to has to do with Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, who held a directorship with a Ukrainian natural gas company called Burisma Holdings in 2014. At one point, Hunter was making $50,000 a month from Burisma.

Burisma was owned by Mykola Zlochevsky, a minister who went into exile after a popular revolution removed President Viktor F. Yanukovych. With Yanukovych gone, Zlochevsky faced numerous corruption investigations involving Burisma Holdings.

In 2015, Ukraine appointed Viktor Shokin as their new prosecutor. His removal in 2016 is at the center of the bribery allegations. Biden freely admitted to his role in having Shokin removed in during an event sponsored by the Council on Foreign Relations in 2018. Shokin was totally corrupt.

“I remember going over (to Ukraine), convincing our team … that we should be providing for loan guarantees. … And I was supposed to announce that there was another billion-dollar loan guarantee. And I had gotten a commitment from (then Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko) and from (then-Prime Minister Arseniy) Yatsenyuk that they would take action against the state prosecutor (Shokin). And they didn’t…” he said. The Ukraine government, namely Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk that they would prosecute Shokin for blatant corruption. Why would the US guarantee a billion dollar loan to a government rife with corruption and to individuals who would steal it all and not use it for what it was intended for --- to fight Russia.

Viktor Shokin had much bigger issues than the corruption case against Mykola Zlochevsky. Almost immediately after he was appointed, he started to cause almost irreparable harm to Ukraine’s legal system. Almost exactly what Trump is doing to our legal system, corrupting it.

For starters, Shokin failed to prosecute any prominent members of the Yanukovych regime or anybody in the current government. He constantly blocked reform to Ukraine’s broken legal system. He was in charge of implementing the 2014 law on prosecution which the European Union had asked Ukraine to do for years.

He was the largest obstacle to judicial reform in Ukraine. It wasn’t just Joe Biden calling for his ouster, it was the United States government and the European Union.

 

[MTAtech]

Some would look at that as a bribe, or at least one hell of a favor. 2 sons of high-level Obama administration officials get plumb, very high-paying positions in a foreign government. And Joe Biden as Veep didn't have one blessed conversation with his son about oh, what he's been up to...
When Joe Biden was leading official business with Ukraine.
Strains credulity.

The Trump-hating Left might not like what comes out.

Once again you are making logical jumps. I think that Hunter Biden was using his last name to further his career. You think that's an 'ah-ha!'. Yet, whatever the younger Biden did, or not, doesn't implicate his father of any wrongdoing. Joe Biden said that he didn't speak to his son about any government matter and there is NO evidence that he did.

Yet, this isn't the matter at hand, which is Trump trying to extort a foreign government to assist him in his 2020 election by waiving $250 million in military aid in front of their faces. That, if proven, is illegal and impeachable.

 

[Acadia]

Why can't you answer simple questions about important topics?

If it’s reasonably evidenced it is quid pro quo, will you oppose trump?

Why not just say yes or no, instead of dodging over and over?

"Reasonably evidenced", lol. Why are you ignoring the fact that Ukraine has been clear: Trump did not pressure Ukrain. No quid pro quo.
I oppose corruption, and I have a feeling we're going to find out who the corrupt parties were.

 

[Mach]

"Reasonably evidenced", lol. Why are you ignoring the fact that Ukraine has been clear: Trump did not pressure Ukrain. No quid pro quo.
I oppose corruption, and I have a feeling we're going to find out who the corrupt parties were.

I think everyone can see you still can't answer the question. Your debate has no meaning on this topic, you have no standard by which to win or lose, since it's by your own admission, blind loyalty no matter what.

 

[Acadia]

Once again you are making logical jumps. I think that Hunter Biden was using his last name to further his career. That doesn't implicate his father of any wrongdoing. Joe Biden he didn't speak to his son about any government matter and there is NO evidence that he did.

Yet, this isn't the matter at hand, which is Trump trying to extort a foreign government to assist him in his 2020 election by waiving $250 million in military aid in front of their faces. That, if proven, is illegal and impeachable.

I personally don't believe that Joe had zero inkling his own son was INEXPLICABLY sitting on a board of a gas company in Ukraine after being kicked out of the military for drug use.
Who tf thinks that's the person they want to pay a million bucks a year if his name isn't Biden and it wouldn't help them out somehow?
Joe might have plausible deniability about his son's business dealings with Ukraine via personal conversations with Hunter, but sure as hell he knew.

 

[Acadia]

I think everyone can see you still can't answer the question. Your debate has no meaning on this topic, you have no standard by which to win or lose, since it's by your own admission, blind loyalty no matter what.

You have no case. You're arguing and flailing about like a world-class soccer flopper, but you've got no case. So I don't need to entertain your antics, especially when you ignore my repeated answer of not supporting corruption.

ttfn:2wave:

 

[Mach]

Trump asked Putin if he interfered in the 2016, and Trump said Putin denied it so...nothing to see here folks!

Whistleblower? Oh, we shut them down and demonize them in Russia, I mean the U.S. What a sad era it is.

 

[Mach]

You have no case. You're arguing and flailing about like a world-class soccer flopper, but you've got no case. So I don't need to entertain your antics, especially when you ignore my repeated answer of not supporting corruption.
ttfn:2wave:

Bock bock bock:

If it’s reasonably evidenced it is quid pro quo, will you oppose trump?

Poor Acadia.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Enumerate away. Ukraine denies any pressure or quid pro quo. That cannot be said of the Obama administration.

I am engaging in this discussion with you, while under the assumption that you also accept the general idea that our Republic's legal and political processes operate on the basis of rules and laws, both formal and informal.

Let me try to be succinct: I assume you agree that there are things the President is forbidden from doing, that there are limits to his power and authority.

Am I incorrect in assuming this?

Are we now at a point where all things are justifiable, so long as it achieves the correct result, and so long as it gives your favorite political party an edge?

What violation of the Constitution or the law would you not accept? What crime could Trump commit that would turn you against him?

I'm actually afraid of the answer. I think the answer from you and other Trump supporters might actually be, you don't give a sh**.

 

[Acadia]

I am engaging in this discussion with you, while under the assumption that you also accept the general idea that our Republic's legal and political processes operate on the basis of rules and laws, both formal and informal.

Let me try to be succinct: I assume you agree that there are things the President is forbidden from doing, that there are limits to his power and authority.

Am I incorrect in assuming this?

Are we now at a point where all things are justifiable, so long as it achieves the correct result, and so long as it gives your favorite political party an edge?

What violation of the Constitution or the law would you not accept? What crime could Trump commit that would turn you against him?

I'm actually afraid of the answer. I think the answer from you and other Trump supporters might actually be, you don't give a sh**.

You know what your problem is? Trump gives a ****.
I say shine a light on what this is all about. To the best of the government's ability, tell us all everything. Let it ALL out.
What exactly was Trump after? Let's hear it.

Then let's watch the Trump haters spew their usual hypocrisy when they don't get the answer they want.

Let's touch base once we know the fact, ok? Then let's see who's willing to accept what, shall we?

Right now, you don't know **** and I don't know ****. Pretending that you're having some high-minded conversation while I'm not is ridiculous.

You. Don't. Know. Squat.

 

[MTAtech]

Rudy already confessed the whole plot months ago. We just weren't paying attention.

Appearing last night on CNN, Rudy Giuliani created a furor by openly confessing that he had pressured Ukraine’s government to investigate Joe Biden. The apparent revelation was enhanced by Giuliani initially denying the charge before conceding it. Asked by Chris Cuomo, “Did you ask the Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden?” Giuliani replied, “No, actually, I didn’t,” before going on to explain how he did exactly that, prompting this exchange:

Cuomo: “So you did ask Ukraine to look into Joe Biden?”

Giuliani: “Of course I did.”

But Rudy, in fact, confessed this months ago. Indeed, the whole plot has been sitting in plain sight, a gigantic scandal that has confounded the media and the opposition in part through its very nakedness.
...
We have known since last spring that Trump, working through Giuliani, is pressuring Ukraine to supply dirt on Joe Biden. The alleged misconduct by Biden concerns his work as vice-president under the Obama administration. The allegation is that Biden supposedly tried to sack a Ukrainian prosecutor who was propbing his son’s business in the country. The allegation against Biden is totally baseless. In fact, as Bloomberg News discovered, the prosecution was finished before Biden took a stance, the prosecutor was widely considered corrupt, his sacking was consistent with the administration’s pro-democracy agenda, and the Obama administration supported the investigation into Hunter Biden anyway.