Trump Peace Plan

[washunut]

I can only assume you are being purposely obtuse. By the nonsense definition of refugees applies to the Palestinians there are how many of them now? And you think they all have a right to “return” to Israel? And don’t want to actually think about what that means?

For real?

He knows what it means. Israel would just be the name of another Palestinian state.

 

[Jean-s]

And that's the very essence of what the Palestinians are missing. They think they have the upper hand and they can squeeze everything they want from Israel by saying no to everything. They don't and they can't.

Just to think of what they could have had they accepted the idiotic Ehud Barack proposal or the no less idiotic one of Olmert.

The Occupation of the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and Gaza is increasingly making a single state a reality in all but name and carries the seed of the destruction of Jewish Israel.

 

[Apocalypse]

The Occupation of the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and Gaza is increasingly making a single state a reality in all but name and carries the seed of the destruction of Jewish Israel.

No it's not and you should not waste your time fantasizing about things that are never going to happen.

 

[Jack Hays]

Jack Hays.

That assumes that effective international pressure is not brought to bear on the State of Israel in order to degrade its dominance which will change the power dynamic and make negotiation more palatable than dictation. The State of Israel must be squeezed hard until it comes to terms. This squeezing can be done by states, organisations and individuals and should involve economic, political, military and informational vectors. These vectors should target the State of Israel's capacity to trade, to finance, to bank and its government leaders' abilities to travel and move their money freely. It should also be directed at Israeli citizens in order to give them other points of view than the ethno-religious nationalism and Zionism which they are being saturated with by the Israeli right-wing agenda and hasbara programme at home. Finally it should be directed at the USA and Saudi Arabia which are enabling and shielding the State of Israel from the consequences of its refusal to negotiate a fair and equitable solution process to the conflict.

Squeeze the State of Israel and the Palestinians both until they both break and come to terms.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

That will never happen. You are like the Jacobites waiting for the "King over the water." Hint: He never came.

 

[ecofarm]

I could have dredged up a map from twenty years ago, complete with tunnel to Gaza, exactly like twenty years ago and proposed it as a peace plan without consulting the Palestinians at all. The entire peace plan took Jared maybe an hour to copy/paste. And Trump steps onto stage proclaiming a giant step forward. What a clown show.

"My son got this map from the internet. And he's so smart. A great step forward!"

He's playing the stage for moron support.

 

[Jack Hays]

And that's the very essence of what the Palestinians are missing. They think they have the upper hand and they can squeeze everything they want from Israel by saying no to everything. They don't and they can't.

Just to think of what they could have had they accepted the idiotic Ehud Barack proposal or the no less idiotic one of Olmert.

The wisest summary of them all: "The Palestinians have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity." --Abba Eban

 

[Jean-s]

No it's not and you should not waste your time fantasizing about things that are never going to happen.

Ian Smith was as confident as you when he said that there would not be black African rule in Rhodesia in his lifetime.

 

[Nickyjo]

There were a few hundreds palestinians which gathered in Ramallah and burn tires...

Wait a minute, weren’t Palestinian representatives part of the negotiation? They must have left early before the announcement and picture taking.

 

[Nickyjo]

The wisest summary of them all: "The Palestinians have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity." --Abba Eban

You mean they were invited to discuss their future with Bibi and Trump and didn’t show? ABBA Evan was right, I guess.

 

[Jack Hays]

You mean they were invited to discuss their future with Bibi and Trump and didn’t show? ABBA Evan was right, I guess.

Abba Eban passed away long ago. The Palestinians began missing opportunities very far back.

 

[Nickyjo]

Abba Eban passed away long ago. The Palestinians began missing opportunities very far back.

You missed the point. The Palestinians are once again not consulted about their future. Israel, created by the international community of nations, ignores international law by settling on conquered occupied territories. It continues to build a vibrant democracy, rare in the region, and an apartheid-like state at the same time. Those contradictions endanger its future.

 

[NO1]

Wait a minute, weren’t Palestinian representatives part of the negotiation? They must have left early before the announcement and picture taking.

They boycotted Trump since he recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel

 

[NO1]

You missed the point. The Palestinians are once again not consulted about their future. Israel, created by the international community of nations, ignores international law by settling on conquered occupied territories. It continues to build a vibrant democracy, rare in the region, and an apartheid-like state at the same time. Those contradictions endanger its future.

1. Once again? When was the other time they not consulted about their future?
2. The UN didn't create Israel, the voting was catalyst but the strength of Israel made it all. Israel defeated all surroundings Arab countries which tried to destroy and kill it.
3. "occupied territories", from who Israel "occupied" them?
4. "apartheid-like", that is an anti-Israel slogan which trying to underline the legitimacy of Israel, and of course it's an outright lie.

Anyway, even if the palestinians were in the loop they would reject it, just as they did many time before.

 

[Nickyjo]

They boycotted Trump since he recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel

Were they part of the negotiation that led up to that?

 

[Nickyjo]

1. Once again? When was the other time they not consulted about their future?
2. The UN didn't create Israel, the voting was catalyst but the strength of Israel made it all. Israel defeated all surroundings Arab countries which tried to destroy and kill it.
3. "occupied territories", from who Israel "occupied" them?
4. "apartheid-like", that is an anti-Israel slogan which trying to underline the legitimacy of Israel, and of course it's an outright lie.

Anyway, even if the palestinians were in the loop they would reject it, just as they did many time before.

First, when did they reject a plan that they were part of forming? And tell me, why are Palestinians second class citizens in Israel? Read up on it. Make the comparisons with old South Africa. And populating settlements on invaded territories is a war crime, among the things Germany was guilty of. You remember liebensraum. Israel is a democracy worthy of our support, but will have to become more repressive in the future due to demographics, unless it changes its policies. We do not hear much in our media about the non-Arab Jewish population that dissents from Bibi’s policies, but they are there, and are it’s best hope.

Suggest you read the Human Rights Watch report on Israel, which also noted abuses by Palestinian authorities.

 

[snakestretcher]

On the contrary. Israel is in a position to dictate terms. This deal is not as good as Oslo was. The next one will not be as good as this one.

Yes, Oslo was so good that Netanyahu decided to derail the entire process.

 

[snakestretcher]

The wisest summary of them all: "The Palestinians have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity." --Abba Eban

Except when that opportunity is taken from them, by Israel. But you want to blame Palestine because Netanyahu destroyed the entire Oslo deal? That's some stretch.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Rogue Valley:

I agree with your two points (jettison the Trump Deal and relocate the Embassy back out of Jerusalem) and would also add my aspiration that the next US Congress and Administration should cut the lavish military aid flowing to Israel until it begins to negotiate in good faith with Palestinian and international authorities in order to create a viable Palestinian State in the Levant between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea based on the pre-1967 borders of Israel. As several posters here have said, Palestinians have no leverage to force a deal and the State of Israel has no incentive to come to a deal. So economically throttle the State of Israel and give the Palestinians political leverage, then a real deal between the State of Israel and the Palestinians which both groups can live with begrudgingly will follow.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

While I agree with employing leverages to force a more equitable solution, that initiative will have to wait until Donald Trump is in the rear-view mirror.

He is fond of trumpeting Israel as a Trump foreign policy triumph, even though it is yet another Trump foreign policy failure.

 

[Jack Hays]

Yes, Oslo was so good that Netanyahu decided to derail the entire process.

He was only able to derail because the Palestinians did too.

 

[Jack Hays]

Except when that opportunity is taken from them, by Israel. But you want to blame Palestine because Netanyahu destroyed the entire Oslo deal? That's some stretch.

Netanyahu was only able to act as he did because the Palestinians behaved so foolishly.

 

[oneworld2]

Netanyahu was only able to act as he did because the Palestinians behaved so foolishly.

So even when an Israeli leader is caught boasting in private about how he proceeded to deliberately derail the agreement it is still the fault of the Palestinians ? Wow.

 

[Jack Hays]

So even when an Israeli leader is caught boasting in private about how he proceeded to deliberately derail the agreement it is still the fault of the Palestinians ? Wow.

They walked away. Unlike Netanyahu, they had no alternative. So yes, their decision was foolish.

 

[oneworld2]

They walked away. Unlike Netanyahu, they had no alternative. So yes, their decision was foolish.

You would have to explain the above in more detail but it still smacks of the illogical blaming the Palestinians for something an Israeli admits to doing all by himself and proudly so.

 

[Jack Hays]

You would have to explain the above in more detail but it still smacks of the illogical blaming the Palestinians for something an Israeli admits to doing all by himself and proudly so.

Had the Palestinians not walked away, Netanyahu could not have either.

 

[CJ 2.0]

Had the Palestinians not walked away, Netanyahu could not have either.

And if the Israeli public believed the Palestinians were genuine Netanyahu would have been replaced by someone who would have a mandate to cut a deal (which actually happened, of course, so it isn’t theoretical).

Netanyahu recognized what we didn’t at the time - that the entire Palestinian Oslo agreement was a sham. The Palestinians never intended to make peace and never intended to do anything but use the Oslo process to better make war.

Netanyahu saw it and rightly said it needs to stop. Concessions that enable Palestinian terror and intransigence were not in Israel’s interests and not in the interests of peace.

The anti-Israelsrs like to skip over that part. Cause to them the Israelis had an obligation to march to their destruction and anything they did to properly assess Palestinian intentions was illegitimate.

The Palestinians abided by none of their material commitments from Oslo. Like zero. But of course Israel saying wait a minute, they are not abiding by their commitments and have launched a terror war against our country so we should stop treating them as a peace partner is somehow beyond the pale to them.

Because they are partisan ideologies committed to the struggle against Israel at all costs. Nothing new here.