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Trump clashes with Pelosi, Schumer on border security

Is the Wall worth shutting down the US government?

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 26.2%
  • No

    Votes: 29 69.0%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other - see post below

    Votes: 2 4.8%

  • Total voters
    42
Ok, sorry you’re not understanding this, I’m not saying folks on a per person got unemployment insurance payments for 8 years, I’m saying for 8 years we had the highest unemployment rate and most unemployed folks got unemployment insurance ( not each person got it for 8 years).


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Awesome, so your writing skills are my fault or you're just blaming me for not reading your mind?

Yes, the 2008 recession is still being felt. It was 30 years in the making and, fortunately, won't take 30 years to resolve, but there are still problems. What does this have to do with Trump's wall?
 
Sorry to break it to ya.But the issue is not that Trump Once said that we'll have
mexico pay for the wall.That's Old news.Old hat.There is no Reasonable or rational
reason for 2 sick puppies like Dem Leaders Pelosi and Schumer going along with a mere
$ 5 Billion for a Border wall.The only reason they are pulling this Publicity stunt is to
act like they have power.In fact,that is their entire reason for being Politicians.
To prove how they can bend and shape this country into whatever Big Brother
gummybear they choose.
They think { always do } that they have Trump on the ropes over this " Mexico will
pay for it " comment.Americans know the truly important thing here.That we must have
a Wall { since a fence and border security Hasn't worked }.
The Obama style of approaching politics was just mouthing platitudes and blaming
others.Being The Biggest Presidential Demogogue in American History.Getting almost
nothing accomplished for the betterment of Joe American.Just Obama's Political
cronies.Like Silicon Valley and certain Banks and the Uber powerful like in the media
and Hollywood.

Huh. Literally not a single thing you just babbled is true.

WHAT a surprise!
 
Is it because you don't want to know or are unable to know? You said: Just under 129 million Americans voted in 2016 but that's only 58% of the total number of eligible voters meaning there are about 222M voters in the US with only 64M of them, by your own claim, supporting the wall.

Sick Puppy Schumer just said yesterday that - Elections Have Consequences -.
Is it right or wrong.Obama used that repeatedly in 2009 before the ObamaCare vote
in 2010 and Pelosi also harped on it.
So what About Donald Trump winning in 2016.
Or have you got that Figured out as well.Democrat Talking pts. only go so far.
Common sense tends to eventually kick-in.
There's a reason our Founders preferred a Republic.Not a sole democracy where
a majority is all that is needed.
 
Sick Puppy Schumer just said yesterday that - Elections Have Consequences -.
Is it right or wrong.Obama used that repeatedly in 2009 before the ObamaCare vote
in 2010 and Pelosi also harped on it.
So what About Donald Trump winning in 2016.
Or have you got that Figured out as well.Democrat Talking pts. only go so far.
Common sense tends to eventually kick-in.
There's a reason our Founders preferred a Republic.Not a sole democracy where
a majority is all that is needed.

Sorry, but while I got the jist of that (you disagree with me), most of it didn't make sense.
 
What's ridiculous is a single line defense when what we need is a defense in depth as noted above. A second point of ridiculousness is that there are cheaper, more effective measures that should be taken first before building a $50B white elephant of dubious effectiveness.

Besides, why is Trump demanding Americans pay for it when he promised the Mexicans would do so?
Helluva logical exercise there Sun.
Who needs locks on your doors when it's better to just not have family or anything valuable inside.
No. you build a wall first and then see what else you need after the human traffic becomes so minimal the BP can control it.
You have your preferences but you still haven't explained why a wall wouldn't keep most people out.
 
Sorry, but while I got the jist of that (you disagree with me), most of it didn't make sense.

Yeah ... righto ringo.Like the Democrats are set to nominate a POTUS pretty soon.What is their
platform.? They had literally none for the Midterms.Except veiled threats aimed at the
sitting President.Democrats with their Identity Politics and nonsensical Talking Pts. is surely
making our Country stronger.Like how Obama Unified the Nation and got us out of the Bush
recession ditch.
 
Still trying to figure out why all of a sudden the most feared people in America are a bunch of dishwashers, farm hands, maids, cooks, ditch diggers, meat packaging help, drywallers, roofers, gardeners, nannies, ranch hands and so many other types of menial workers. One day, perhaps it was when a big blowhard with little hands got these people up in arms, it became the most important thing to millions of white Americans. I live around many of these people, they are wonderful people and our state would stop tomorrow if every one of them suddenly left. You people are being played for fools. If you look hard enough you might find the real culprits for your imagined hardships. Look no further then every Republican since Reagan.
 
Helluva logical exercise there Sun.
Who needs locks on your doors when it's better to just not have family or anything valuable inside.
No. you build a wall first and then see what else you need after the human traffic becomes so minimal the BP can control it.
You have your preferences but you still haven't explained why a wall wouldn't keep most people out.

The dems are so cartoonish they can't help but come off as Daffy Ducks and Bugs Bunnies.
They fix nothing.They don't know how.Nor seem to care.
This Wall scares the bejesus out of them because it might work too well.
Which is why they don't like Donald Trump as well.Because he works so well at
being a President.Or the one most charged with Protecting America and Americans.
Obama and Hillary couldn't handle Isis.In fact they helped to create Isis.
They couldn't even handle explaining the Benghazi Attack.Right there proves their
Malfeasant cartoonish Incompetence.
 
Helluva logical exercise there Sun.
Who needs locks on your doors when it's better to just not have family or anything valuable inside.
No. you build a wall first and then see what else you need after the human traffic becomes so minimal the BP can control it.
You have your preferences but you still haven't explained why a wall wouldn't keep most people out.
14007919-an-illustration-of-a-wooden-ladder-on-white.jpg
 
Helluva logical exercise there Sun.
Who needs locks on your doors when it's better to just not have family or anything valuable inside.
No. you build a wall first and then see what else you need after the human traffic becomes so minimal the BP can control it.
You have your preferences but you still haven't explained why a wall wouldn't keep most people out.

Wow. Where did you get that idea?

First, the US isn't just some lowlife's single-wide trailer with a simple fence around it and a pitbull tied to tree.

Second, we're not Israel either. Although their wall, and I've seen it, is less than a quarter the size of the US wall, much of it is doubled, in high density areas and highly guarded to keep out terrorists. The US concern is illegal immigrants seeking jobs and to suck off the public welfare tit. Not the same threat and, as posted several times previously, better handled with legislation and law enforcement on those hiring and harboring illegals. Take away the money and there is little to no reason for immigrants to come or stay illegally.

Third, while the border with Mexico is less than 2000 miles, the Continental US has over 12,000 miles of coastline (8 times that of shoreline). California alone has 840 miles coastline and Texas 300 miles. This doesn't even address the world's longest undefended border at over 5500 miles. My solutions covers those problems. Trump's wall does not.

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/shorelength.html
 
...
Second, we're not Israel either. Although their wall, and I've seen it, is less than a quarter the size of the US wall, much of it is doubled, in high density areas and highly guarded to keep out terrorists. The US concern is illegal immigrants seeking jobs and to suck off the public welfare tit. Not the same threat and, as posted several times previously, better handled with legislation and law enforcement on those hiring and harboring illegals. Take away the money and there is little to no reason for immigrants to come or stay illegally.

...

So walls work.
 
It's Unamerican and unconscionable for elected leader like Pelosi and Schumer
to deny Americans a right to have a Border wall.Trump should have asked why they would
deny and hold up government over a mere few Billion dollars.Trump should have asked
them what they have against a wall.But snake-in-the-grass Pols like Schumer already has
a answer for that down pat.It's a Lie of an answer.He'll state that a wall doesn't make us
any safer and that more security on the border will.Patently and grotesquely a Lie.Plus how
could he ever prove that Lie.We've never had a bona-fide wall.At least not the kind President Trump
will make sure and build.Walls work pretty good in Israel.
Sarah Sanders is spot-on right.Schumer and Pelosi want Open Borders more than Open Government.

Fascinating. Pelosi and Schumer not only have bad ideas but they are "unconstitutional" too. Can you please cite the Article and Section of the constitution their words violate?
 
Correct, but like the Maginot Line, they have limitations. Why are you so against the more cost efficient methods being implemented first?

First ... the wall would work to keep most uninvited people out.
Second, I mentioned before that those other things would not work because they'd either be voluntary, or they'd require Congress, or they'd require business to do without cheap labor, or they'd require actions by a political Party to stop engaging in a planned demographic change that would secure their future.
There ... those are the obvious reasons I mentioned earlier and why they can't be done.

A wall would solve that conundrum.
You on board now?
 
Trump got pwnd? You must’ve only watched the MSMs cut a snip coverage.
Trump said he’s building the wall, what part was he pwnd?
He could use military funding to build it!


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To build it out of what? Sandbags?

Here's why Trump got pwnd... he just took responsibility for the Government shutdown. When (not if) it happens, he's the one solely to blame. So the Government shuts down on Dec. 21.... but the shutdown has to end sometime - if it ends on or after Jan. 3, when the new Democratic majority gets sworn in, then they can take credit for brokering the compromise that eventually ends it - and with the extra leverage that they'll have by controlling the House, they'll get a better deal for themselves to boot! Do you see now why he was well and truly pwnd? What the President did yesterday was go waaay out on a limb and then cut it off behind him.
 
It's both parties. They refuse to talk to each other or to play the game of give and take. Both parties want 100% without giving up nothing. Shutdowns usually don't last long. four of the 18 lasted just one day, a couple of more 2 days. The longest one was 21 days 15 Dec 1995-6 Jan 1997.

That's mere bothsidesism. America, it goes without saying, has a powerful, crazy right wing. There’s nothing equivalent on the left -- yes, there are individual crazy leftists, but nothing like the organized, lavishly financed madness on the right.

But centrists have a very hard time acknowledging this asymmetry; they love to assert that both sides are equally wrong or at fault.

So here’s what you should know: the policy ideas of the Democratic-left, like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, are definitely bold -- Medicare for All and a federal job guarantee, and you can make some substantive arguments against them. But they aren’t crazy. By contrast, the ideas of Tea Party Republicans are crazy (abolishing the IRS, ending Social Security, etc.); in fact, Ocasio-Cortez’s policy positions are a lot more sensible than those of the Republican mainstream, let alone the GOP’s more radical members.

There is no left equivalence to the last government shutdown, when Tea Party Republicans shutdown the government because they wanted the ACA defunded. There is no science denial on the left. There are no deficit hawks on the left, that magically become deficit doves when they are in power.
 
To build it out of what? Sandbags?

Here's why Trump got pwnd... he just took responsibility for the Government shutdown. When (not if) it happens, he's the one solely to blame. So the Government shuts down on Dec. 21.... but the shutdown has to end sometime - if it ends on or after Jan. 3, when the new Democratic majority gets sworn in, then they can take credit for brokering the compromise that eventually ends it - and with the extra leverage that they'll have by controlling the House, they'll get a better deal for themselves to boot! Do you see now why he was well and truly pwnd? What the President did yesterday was go waaay out on a limb and then cut it off behind him.

Agreed. Trump's mouth gets him into more trouble than anything else. While I doubt Pelosi and Schumer are smart enough to pull a set-up, I'm certain they were pleasantly surprised to see Trump shoot his mouth off.

View attachment 67245915
 
There wasn't much point in being there if Trump wasn't willing to negotiate seriously. From what I saw, this whole thing was all intended to be for show - the President figured he was going to sit them down and just dictate how things were going to be.... for God's sake - he tried to mansplain to Nancy Pelosi how Congress works! *LOL* What's he going to do next? Lecture Tom Brady on how to throw a football??

Face it, he deserved to have his ass handed to him.

Shows most of you still don't understand Trump.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blo...e_traps_on_pelosi_and_schumer_yesterday_.html
 
I don't have any polls per se, but here's something.


https://northcountrypublicradio.org...promise-on-border-wall-amid-possible-shutdown

I'm not sure, but it seems to me that now that we don't have the GOP news media and Trump 24/7 fearmongering about the migrant invaders, things have calmed a bit. That fearmongering stopped as soon as the midterms were history.

Edit: I'm not even sure Trump can get his wall funding through the House while the GOP has it.

I think getting funding for the wall has been tried a couple of times over the last couple of years. Shot down both times if memory serves me right. I could be wrong about that, but I do remember Trump stating this would be the last time he signs a budget bill without funding for his wall. The Republican controlled house couldn't get it together.

I always thought there was a heck of a lot cheaper and more effectuate ways than a wall.
 
Snarky, but obviously unrealistic. We're not talking about your local DMV here. Although essential personnel would continue working, they'd do it for no pay until the government is funded. While that may sound okay to people who rely on their parents for food and housing or wealthy retirees, most people live paycheck-to-paycheck. The electric, cellphone, credit card and mortgage companies expect monthly payments.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...uld-be-limited-as-only-some-agencies-unfunded
...At the Department of Homeland Security, the overwhelming majority of border patrol, emergency management and immigration enforcement staff would be able to keep doing their jobs, though with their pay delayed.

At the Department of Housing and Human Development, on the other hand, 87 percent of the agency’s 7,800 employees would be sent home. The Treasury Department is among agencies that would furlough workers. Its biggest component is the Internal Revenue Service and most of its employees wouldn’t report to work because it’s not tax season. Environmental Protection Agency employees would also be furloughed.

The Food and Drug Administration, whose funding would expire, says it would “continue vital activities,” while stopping routine inspections of pharmaceutical and food plants. The State Department would keep issuing passports -- unless the office in question is inside a building run by another agency and that agency gets shut down.

Most people who work for the FedGov make decent money They should have a bit to fall back on.

Fact is, Americans in general are not overly concerned with the threat or implementation of a shutdown. Having it happen during the holidays is a bonus to many.
 
Most people who work for the FedGov make decent money They should have a bit to fall back on.

Fact is, Americans in general are not overly concerned with the threat or implementation of a shutdown. Having it happen during the holidays is a bonus to many.

Spoken like someone who's never worked for the government, but obviously you don't care about the American public and will make up any excuse to allow Trump a pass.
 
That's mere bothsidesism. America, it goes without saying, has a powerful, crazy right wing. There’s nothing equivalent on the left -- yes, there are individual crazy leftists, but nothing like the organized, lavishly financed madness on the right.

But centrists have a very hard time acknowledging this asymmetry; they love to assert that both sides are equally wrong or at fault.

So here’s what you should know: the policy ideas of the Democratic-left, like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, are definitely bold -- Medicare for All and a federal job guarantee, and you can make some substantive arguments against them. But they aren’t crazy. By contrast, the ideas of Tea Party Republicans are crazy (abolishing the IRS, ending Social Security, etc.); in fact, Ocasio-Cortez’s policy positions are a lot more sensible than those of the Republican mainstream, let alone the GOP’s more radical members.

There is no left equivalence to the last government shutdown, when Tea Party Republicans shutdown the government because they wanted the ACA defunded. There is no science denial on the left. There are no deficit hawks on the left, that magically become deficit doves when they are in power.

There is no such thing as a deficit hawk when in power. Only when out of power does either party become deficit hawks. Then again both can afford to be so, all their rhetoric is just for show. Like so much else, which party has the president determines how that party votes on such things. With the Bush presidency, almost every Democrat voted against raising the debt ceiling, almost every Republican vote for raising the debt ceiling. Obama presidency, the reverse was true, Democrats now voted to raise it, Republicans against. I call that bothisms or neither party having any core values.

BUSH THE 2ND TENURE
Year Democrats for Democrats against Republicans for Republicans against
2003 3 45 50 1
2004 2 46 50 1
2006 0 44 52 3


OBAMA PRESIDENCY
2009 59 0 1 40
2010 60 0 0 40
2012 52 3 1 45
2013 54 0 18 27
 
There is no such thing as a deficit hawk when in power. Only when out of power does either party become deficit hawks. Then again both can afford to be so, all their rhetoric is just for show. Like so much else, which party has the president determines how that party votes on such things. With the Bush presidency, almost every Democrat voted against raising the debt ceiling, almost every Republican vote for raising the debt ceiling. Obama presidency, the reverse was true, Democrats now voted to raise it, Republicans against. I call that bothisms or neither party having any core values.

BUSH THE 2ND TENURE
Year Democrats for Democrats against Republicans for Republicans against
2003 3 45 50 1
2004 2 46 50 1
2006 0 44 52 3


OBAMA PRESIDENCY
2009 59 0 1 40
2010 60 0 0 40
2012 52 3 1 45
2013 54 0 18 27


The debt ceiling isn't a substantive metric. It is always raised. As Reagan said, it's unthinkable not to raise it.

The issue is voting for tax cuts that will obviously increase deficits. There is also the issue of not worrying about deficits when the economy is in a slump compared to when it is fine.
 
Spoken like someone who's never worked for the government, but obviously you don't care about the American public and will make up any excuse to allow Trump a pass.

I have worked for the government and I'm not falling for the rhetoric.
 
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