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Trump clashes with Pelosi, Schumer on border security

Is the Wall worth shutting down the US government?

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 26.2%

  • No

    Votes: 29 69.0%

  • I don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other - see post below

    Votes: 2 4.8%
  • Total voters
    42
What if...? said:
Until they seriously go after employers its just a dog and pony show.

And done properly, with big fines and rewards, it would cost little or nothing.

End the jobs you end the draw.

No jobs, no money to send home, might as well stay home, right?
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Well said and agreed. So why hasn't this been done ever since Reagan gave amnesty in the 1980s? IMO, because nobody wants to change the status guo since there's too much money being made off the illegals.
 
What if...? said:
Until they seriously go after employers its just a dog and pony show.

And done properly, with big fines and rewards, it would cost little or nothing.

End the jobs you end the draw.

No jobs, no money to send home, might as well stay home, right?
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Let me ask you a question; if you have a leak in your kitchen and water is going all over the place do you shut off the water first or negotiate a deal with the plumber first?
 
Lutherf said:
The government doesn't shut down without a joint effort. Trump can't do it on his own and congress can't do it without Trump. Trump wants a guarantee on border security before he signs off on the new spending bill. Chuck and Nancy don't care about border security but do care about ****ing with Trump...which is what the meeting was all about for them.
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Partially correct. What Trump said is that even if the House and the Senate pass a budget agreement, Trump won't sign it if it doesn't include paying for his wall. That's not a joint effort, that's just a narcissistic assclown shutting down the government for Christmas.

Sure Congress can override his veto but that takes time and votes.
 
Greenbeard said:
The GOP still has unified control of government.
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Why do you people still keep referrring to the GOP like it's some kind of unified party? Half the GOP HATES Trump and prefers policies which lead to social globalism. This isn't a GOP v Democrats thing. It's globalists v nationalists.
 
Rising Sun said:
Talk is cheap. Money walks, bull**** walks.

Care to bet a $10 donation to the forum in the winners name? I'd bet more but doubt you could afford it. :D
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People can always find something that kinda sorta matches Trump's story after he said something off the cuff. It usually turns out to be far removed from the original. The mere fact that, as I said, half the internet has to go into overdrive to 'prove' it when the president can't do so himself, demonstrates the reality that he just pulled it out of his ass. If he doesn't know something is true when he says it, it's still a lie.

While we're on the subject of parsing words I know exactly what he means as well. He's playing on the old fears: He is referring to ten (round figure) terrorists of middle eastern origin or at least Islamist, supported by or pledging allegiance to or inspired by either Iran, The Muslim Brotherhood, Al Shabab, PLO, Hamas, Hezbollah, ISIS, AQ or the Taliban or similar[sic] group having come across the southern border recently (last 30 days is reasonable), possibly among the caravan who have also been apprehended.

If someone can dig up evidence of that, good luck to them. Anything less and he's talking garbage again.

As for the $10, dude sorry, left my wallet at home.
 
Rising Sun said:
Partially correct. What Trump said is that even if the House and the Senate pass a budget agreement, Trump won't sign it if it doesn't include paying for his wall. That's not a joint effort, that's just a narcissistic assclown shutting down the government for Christmas.

Sure Congress can override his veto but that takes time and votes.
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It's not anything "assclown". It's "win/win or no deal". Chuck and Nancy are playing the "you lose, we win and tough ****" game.
 
What if...? said:
Until they seriously go after employers its just a dog and pony show.

And done properly, with big fines and rewards, it would cost little or nothing.

End the jobs you end the draw.

No jobs, no money to send home, might as well stay home, right?
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The 1986 IRCA was supposed to go after employers but congress never pushed the issue. Arizona started a program to go after employers and the DoJ sued them. The globalists don't want anything to do with going after employers. All they want is to talk tough in front of the cameras while letting a stream of illegals in behind the scenes.
 
Lutherf said:
It's not anything "assclown". It's "win/win or no deal". Chuck and Nancy are playing the "you lose, we win and tough ****" game.
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Disagreed. I fully support border security but there are much better methods for controlling illegal immigration than fixed fortifications along a single border. You do know that drug dealers, coyotes and terrorists will switch to boats, right?? Drug dealers and terrorists will switch to the world's longest undefended border? Dig tunnels?
 
Greenbeard said:
Didn't even really need to wait until he walked away.

DuLE9ODWkAA-Uwg.jpg
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I haven't enjoyed watching someone's facial reactions to Trump speaking that much since that time with Buzz Aldrin.

 
It's not just jobs that draw illegal aliens.



If we are going to charge employers who hire illegal aliens then we should also be charging colleges which give illegal aliens free education, charge states which are providing government benefits, as well as sanctuary cities, counties and states.

A stronger border barrier has been shown effective all across the world, so little credibility to those who claim it is a waste of money. A border wall's effectiveness would depend on its design and how well it's constructed and how well its erected.
 
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"It goes to show you: You get into a tinkle contest with a skunk, you get tinkle all over you." - Nancy Pelosi

Trump may not know how to spell "Smoking" but Pelosi thinks skunks spray pee.
 
Rising Sun said:
Disagreed. I fully support border security but there are much better methods for controlling illegal immigration than fixed fortifications along a single border. You do know that drug dealers, coyotes and terrorists will switch to boats, right?? Drug dealers and terrorists will switch to the world's longest undefended border? Dig tunnels?
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Like what?
 
bubbabgone said:
Like what?
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Arresting anyone who helps, harbors or employs illegals. Easier to lock up a few than millions. Better to take away what draws illegals than to try keeping them out with a single fence along a single border.

Do you know how many miles of border the Continental US has?
 
He said Mexico was going to pay for his wall. If he wants it, get them to pay for it. But all of us sentient beings know the whole thing was a crock of **** anyway. There will be no wall, Mexico will not pay for it and Trump humpers are just going to have to live with being in a brown nation. Enjoy the salsa kiddos, try the roasted chipotle.
 
Greenbeard said:
Didn't even really need to wait until he walked away.

DuLE9ODWkAA-Uwg.jpg
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Nah.... Pelosi and Schumer looked like arses. The majority regardless of party want that damn border secured. That means a wall in some locations and whatever means necessary where a wall can't be built. When you have the influx of the number of illegals pouring across our border in the past decade it is obvious the border is not secure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now the left is always crying democracy. Well pal, when the majority want the damn border secured and you have elites in the Democratic party claiming that is racist then it is obvious that the elites like Pelosi and Schumer don't have real democracy in mind. Instead they want you to think they are the sharpest pencils in the box and you are too stupid to know what is right.

Pelosi and Schumer's "performance" today was telling and is going to be seen as a total fail by the majority.
 
eohrnberger said:
It's not just jobs that draw illegal aliens.



If we are going to charge employers who hire illegal aliens then we should also be charging colleges which give illegal aliens free education, charge states which are providing government benefits, as well as sanctuary cities, counties and states.

A stronger border barrier has been shown effective all across the world, so little credibility to those who claim it is a waste of money. A border wall's effectiveness would depend on its design and how well it's constructed and how well its erected.
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Agreed about restricting those who entice illegals. Congress has the power, so why don't they use it? My guess is because there's too much money to be made with the status quo...the same reason why we talk a lot about this issue but little has been done for the past 30+ years.

Trump's rhetoric isn't helping. In fact, it's detrimental to a solution.


2or30k.jpg
 
JasperL said:
You should also "buy" the actual harm a shutdown does to local businesses. It's real, and unlike you federal employees, they're not paid for the lost sales, lost rooms, meals, gift shop sales, etc. It's just gone.

I'm also not sure when it became an obligation of the Congress to give POTUS exactly what he wants. The GOP House tried to pass immigration this summer, including Trump's ask on border wall funding, and failed, so I'm not really sure who in Congress will be to blame. It's going to be hard to argue this is the democrats' fault when Trump can't even get his ask through the GOP House.
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What I mean is in normal years, there are 12 different appropriation bills. these 12 bills make up the budget. Each should be drawn up, debated, voted on separately if congress was processing these normally. I'm not sure which of the appropriation bills the wall would fall under. Probably Homeland security. If the wall is the only obstacle, the other 11 appropriation bills should have been already passed. That would leave Homeland security if that was the right bill for the wall. All of this is suppose to be done by the end of the fiscal year, NLT 1 October.

Of course passing all 12 of these bills on time rarely happens. I think it has been accomplished only 4 times in the last 40 years. Even so, it is congress's job to get these bills passed. there is no reason in my mind that the wall which has nothing to do with 11 of the 12 appropriation bills should shut down all of government. If congress had done their job regardless of the wall, 11 of these bills would have already been passed and those sections of government up and running normally.

I'm not talking about giving the president all that he wants. I'm talking about congress doing its job. There was a time when each of these 12 different appropriation bills was taken up seperately, one by one and passed. Over the last 10 or so years, that hasn't been the case. They seem to all get packaged together in an Omnibus bill and continuing resolutions.
 
Perotista said:
What I mean is in normal years, there are 12 different appropriation bills. these 12 bills make up the budget. Each should be drawn up, debated, voted on separately if congress was processing these normally. I'm not sure which of the appropriation bills the wall would fall under. Probably Homeland security. If the wall is the only obstacle, the other 11 appropriation bills should have been already passed. That would leave Homeland security if that was the right bill for the wall. All of this is suppose to be done by the end of the fiscal year, NLT 1 October.

Of course passing all 12 of these bills on time rarely happens. I think it has been accomplished only 4 times in the last 40 years. Even so, it is congress's job to get these bills passed. there is no reason in my mind that the wall which has nothing to do with 11 of the 12 appropriation bills should shut down all of government. If congress had done their job regardless of the wall, 11 of these bills would have already been passed and those sections of government up and running normally.

I'm not talking about giving the president all that he wants. I'm talking about congress doing its job. There was a time when each of these 12 different appropriation bills was taken up seperately, one by one and passed. Over the last 10 or so years, that hasn't been the case. They seem to all get packaged together in an Omnibus bill and continuing resolutions.
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I'm not real sure how that would help here. Trump is demanding his precious Great Wall or else he'll shut down the government, or so is the threat. Congress doesn't want to fund it. That's the impasse.
 
Helix said:
**** Trump and his stupid wall. the Mexican government is going to pay for it anyway, so he doesn't need congress, right?
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Explain why a Wall would be Stupid.The Great Wall of China was a Huge centuries 0ld
success.The Berlin Wall as well.Then the Wall in Israel.
Or maybe a Wall would be just the ticket.Like Electing Donald Trump.
So I can see why those who don't like success would knock a wall.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Amen. As I posted in another thread on the topic, I think enforcement of existing laws and funding better border security through increased personnel and technology is a smarter and scalable way to secure the border than a wall which will have to be maintained regardless of changes to immigration patterns. Then of course there's the issue of how smugglers will find ways through and under the wall.
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What is that some kind of Joke.Obama purposedly did not enforce Border security.
Plus he used Catch & release in order to guarantee Illegals had a place for Sanctuary.
Obama had marching orders to not Detain or hold Illegals.
Why is a wall such a dread notion.Because Dopey Democrats say so.Give me ONE
example ... Just one where Democrats Policy made for a better America.
Just One example.
 
vesper said:
Nah.... Pelosi and Schumer looked like arses. The majority regardless of party want that damn border secured. That means a wall in some locations and whatever means necessary where a wall can't be built. When you have the influx of the number of illegals pouring across our border in the past decade it is obvious the border is not secure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now the left is always crying democracy. Well pal, when the majority want the damn border secured and you have elites in the Democratic party claiming that is racist then it is obvious that the elites like Pelosi and Schumer don't have real democracy in mind. Instead they want you to think they are the sharpest pencils in the box and you are too stupid to know what is right.

Pelosi and Schumer's "performance" today was telling and is going to be seen as a total fail by the majority.
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Schumer looked like someone stole his bag lunch of Lox on a Bagel w/cream cheese.
Schumer can't handle being Open & Honest.Like little Adam Schitt,he loves to run to the
mic in order to whine and Lie.Plus the guy can't even sit up straight like a man.
At Least Pelosi had good posture.
 
foolardi said:
Explain why a Wall would be Stupid.The Great Wall of China was a Huge centuries 0ld
success.The Berlin Wall as well.Then the Wall in Israel.
Or maybe a Wall would be just the ticket.Like Electing Donald Trump.
So I can see why those who don't like success would knock a wall.
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if Mexico won't pay for the Great Wall of Derp as promised, perhaps Trump can take donations. maybe he can even launder the donations and grift a profit.
 
Helix said:
if Mexico won't pay for the Great Wall of Derp as promised, perhaps Trump can take donations. maybe he can even launder the donations and grift a profit.
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...or he can use his own "Ten Billion" as a down payment.
 
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