Trump and Republicans prove they are unable to govern in their Covid 19 response

[mike2810]

It's funny that you only mention partisanship and nothing about the question I asked? Why can't Trump order FEMA to take control over all medical supplies related to this crisis so that they may direct them to States with the most need? Does he want more Americans to die or not? As much as you seem to want it to be, there is nothing political about saving peoples lives. It is the sacred duty of the Federal Govt. above all else. Do you think 50% of America thinks that the Feds slacking off their sworn duty and letting more people die is the right thing to do? How about 89% of Republicans?

Note the emphasis on States and Localities rather than a Federal Government takeover.

"Congress' intention was to encourage states and localities to develop comprehensive disaster preparedness plans, prepare for better intergovernmental coordination in the face of a disaster, encourage the use of insurance coverage, and provide federal assistance programs for losses due to a disaster.This Act constitutes the statutory authority for most federal disaster response activities especially as they pertain to FEMA and FEMA programs."

About the Agency | FEMA.gov

You should look at the Act that Congress wrote in the creation of FEMA and its authority.

imo, no country could have prepared for this event even with a few months warning. It takes time to manufacture supplies, drugs, equipment. Hopefully emergency and medical specialists will develop lesson learned from this event. This should to better preparation in the future. imo, it is not practical to stockpile millions of ventilators.

 

[Perotista]

I doubt that this means much.

Out of 22 polls, only 5 put Trump above water. One of these is an obvious outlier (it’s also over a week old).

I count six polls from 24-31 March with 5 having Trump above water and the 6th a tie.

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Public Approval of President Trump's Handling of the Coronavirus

I don't know where you got 22 from. But some folks trust the numbers, others don't. RCP averages all the recent polls which has the tendency of correcting any skewed poll or outlier as you put.

 

[iguanaman]

Note the emphasis on States and Localities rather than a Federal Government takeover.

"Congress' intention was to encourage states and localities to develop comprehensive disaster preparedness plans, prepare for better intergovernmental coordination in the face of a disaster, encourage the use of insurance coverage, and provide federal assistance programs for losses due to a disaster.This Act constitutes the statutory authority for most federal disaster response activities especially as they pertain to FEMA and FEMA programs."

About the Agency | FEMA.gov

You should look at the Act that Congress wrote in the creation of FEMA and its authority.

imo, no country could have prepared for this event even with a few months warning. It takes time to manufacture supplies, drugs, equipment. Hopefully emergency and medical specialists will develop lesson learned from this event. This should to better preparation in the future. imo, it is not practical to stockpile millions of ventilators.

Exactly and times when supplies are limited is when the Federal Govt. needs to take care of procurement and distribution so that those in need are best taken care of. Is that so difficult to understand? Why should some areas be stockpiling more than they need while others are running out or have run out? FEMA stands for Federal Emergency Management Agency, is this not an emergency that needs to be managed?

 

[iguanaman]

You keep giving away your partisan agenda. You WANT this to be considered Trumps Katrina because you hate Trump and want him to lose this fall not because there are any real facts behind your claim. But comparisons to Katrina do exist, just not in the way you imagine. Katrina was mostly a failure of state and local Louisiana government, not a failure at the federal level. But the democrat leadership of that state hid their incompetence by whining and demanding federal action. Sounds a lot like today.

I want FEMA to manage this emergency like their name implies. Is that too much for me to ask? It is the entire purpose for its existence. Someone needs to tell Trump what FEMA stands for.

 

[mike2810]

Exactly and times when supplies are limited is when the Federal Govt. needs to take care of procurement and distribution so that those in need are best taken care of. Is that so difficult to understand? Why should some areas be stockpiling more than they need while others are running out or have run out? FEMA stands for Federal Emergency Management Agency, is this not an emergency that needs to be managed?

So can FEMA come into your house and take your stockpile of TP. We have a shortage in some areas in AZ. :mrgreen:

Isn't FEMA doing that now with new supplies. Can you site an example where FEMA came in and confiscated company or personal property to be redistributed elsewhere?

Do you understand how FEMA works? I suggest you read up.

Yes, the US is behind having supplies. As I said no one could have predicted with enough lead time to ramp up for this event.

 

[iguanaman]

So can FEMA come into your house and take your stockpile of TP. We have a shortage in some areas in AZ. :mrgreen:

Isn't FEMA doing that now with new supplies. Can you site an example where FEMA came in and confiscated company or personal property to be redistributed elsewhere?

Do you understand how FEMA works? I suggest you read up.

Yes, the US is behind having supplies. As I said no one could have predicted with enough lead time to ramp up for this event.

FEMA can buy whatever it wants and distribute it according to need. That does not make sense to you? You think each State should compete to get what it needs so some get more than they need and others come up short? Is that sensible to you when lives are at stake? This is the emergency that FEMA was created to manage and they need to step up now.

 

[ataraxia]

If it weren't for the state of New York's total failure, the US would be doing quite well.

Don't worry. It's coming to a state near you, soon.

 

[Jay59]

I count six polls from 24-31 March with 5 having Trump above water and the 6th a tie.

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Public Approval of President Trump's Handling of the Coronavirus

I don't know where you got 22 from. But some folks trust the numbers, others don't. RCP averages all the recent polls which has the tendency of correcting any skewed poll or outlier as you put.

I think he was referring to the overall job approval. Not counting the four that came out in the last 24 hours, there are 25-27 polls in the last month, depending on how you count them. Two of the six polls in the last week are out of the red, but one is just out. It's worthwhile to note that it's from a particularly good pollster.

 

[Perotista]

I think he was referring to the overall job approval. Not counting the four that came out in the last 24 hours, there are 25-27 polls in the last month, depending on how you count them. Two of the six polls in the last week are out of the red, but one is just out. It's worthwhile to note that it's from a particularly good pollster.

We were talking about Trump's response to this Corona Virus Pandemic. But that makes sense. It may be like Trump's numbers and his over all approval numbers there have pretty much a ten point gap since the get go.

 

[mike2810]

FEMA can buy whatever it wants and distribute it according to need. That does not make sense to you? You think each State should compete to get what it needs so some get more than they need and others come up short? Is that sensible to you when lives are at stake? This is the emergency that FEMA was created to manage and they need to step up now.

I can agree that the Feds (FEMA) needs to take a larger role in this emergency. When/if they do not everyone will be happy. People will complain that those getting supplies is all based on politics.

Actually FEMA was created to assist States in events like hurricanes, wildfires and floods. This event (COVID-19) has maxed out the system. The US was not prepared. Nor could anyone predict the exact need it would create.

 

[Hamish Howl]

You have actually just stated the libertarian platform. These people would rather die than see the federal government do anything. Literally.

Nothing like having a weak and incompetent government to prove that government is weak and incompetent.

I'm just saying, if we're competing with each other, state-wise, for emergency resources, then we're already there, and I see no useful point in Arizona remaining in the United States.

 

[Hamish Howl]

You guys cannot stand to see Trump winning, again, so you bitch.

Winning at what? More people doing the Covid19 ward beat box?

 

[Jay59]

We were talking about Trump's response to this Corona Virus Pandemic. But that makes sense. It may be like Trump's numbers and his over all approval numbers there have pretty much a ten point gap since the get go.

Pretty close. His numbers improved dramatically when it became clear the impeachment was was a show trial. The RCP average has been under 10% since about Thanksgiving and is now under 3% negative.

TRump's approval average pushed above 47% for the first time last week. His approval numbers on C-19 situation have been uniformly positive for over two weeks. Interestingly, his average on handling the economy is still double digit positive.

Winning at what? More people doing the Covid19 ward beat box?

See above. There is no way to read the polls that is not favorable to the President.

 

[Perotista]

Pretty close. His numbers improved dramatically when it became clear the impeachment was was a show trial. The RCP average has been under 10% since about Thanksgiving and is now under 3% negative.

TRump's approval average pushed above 47% for the first time last week. His approval numbers on C-19 situation have been uniformly positive for over two weeks. Interestingly, his average on handling the economy is still double digit positive.


See above. There is no way to read the polls that is not favorable to the President.

Yes, his virus response has been positive as is the economy. But overall, no. RCP does have him at 47.7%, his highest ever.

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval

I've never seen a president where his approval numbers have been pretty much a straight line since the get go. I mean Trump has been between 42-46% pretty much his entire presidency. He had that one drop to 38% and now he is at 47%. only a 9 point range between his highest and lowest.

Obama had a lowest to highest of 38% to 69%
G.W. Bush from 25% to 90%
Clinton 37% to 73%
G.H.W. Bush 29% to 89%
Reagan 35% to 68%
Carter 28% to 75%

We're talking 30 to 60 points ranges for every modern president between highest and lowest. Not Trump. 38-47. It seems events, happenings whatever has little effect on how people view him. Perhaps it's the polarization and ultra high partisanship of today. Then again it may be his obnoxious personality and very unpresidential behavior which grates on many independents. I don't know for sure. But it seems you either love him or hate him with very few in-between that don't.

Perhaps the rise in Trump's overall approval is he is now being seen as acting presidential for a change by independents.

 

[Jay59]

Yes, his virus response has been positive as is the economy. But overall, no. RCP does have him at 47.7%, his highest ever.

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval

I've never seen a president where his approval numbers have been pretty much a straight line since the get go. I mean Trump has been between 42-46% pretty much his entire presidency. He had that one drop to 38% and now he is at 47%. only a 9 point range between his highest and lowest.

Obama had a lowest to highest of 38% to 69%
G.W. Bush from 25% to 90%
Clinton 37% to 73%
G.H.W. Bush 29% to 89%
Reagan 35% to 68%
Carter 28% to 75%

We're talking 30 to 60 points ranges for every modern president between highest and lowest. Not Trump. 38-47. It seems events, happenings whatever has little effect on how people view him. Perhaps it's the polarization and ultra high partisanship of today. Then again it may be his obnoxious personality and very unpresidential behavior which grates on many independents. I don't know for sure. But it seems you either love him or hate him with very few in-between that don't.

Perhaps the rise in Trump's overall approval is he is now being seen as acting presidential for a change by independents.

That's simple. They have been using poll suppression tactics since before Trump was elected, so Trump never had any soft support to lose. Trump's polling support has never been more than his solid base, and probably not all of that. Everyone else was intimidated by the social stigma.

 

[Perotista]

That's simple. They have been using poll suppression tactics since before Trump was elected, so Trump never had any soft support to lose. Trump's polling support has never been more than his solid base, and probably not all of that. Everyone else was intimidated by the social stigma.

You really think so? The nationwide polls were pretty accurate, RCP showed Hillary with 46.8 vs. Trump with 43.6. Final result Hillary 48.2, Trump 46.1. Considering the margin of error of plus or minus 3 points, they were right on. A difference of 3.2 polling to the actual results of 2.1. It doesn't seem folks were holding back because of stigma.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Trump vs. Clinton

Of course that was 2016. Trump's approval was at 44% in Nov 2018, 53% disapprove, which almost matched the total vote received in the house. Republican congressional candidates 44.8%, democratic congressional candidates 53.4%. If it was stigma, that stigma carried right into the voting booth.

I've more of a mind that those who voted for Trump, 46% haven't changed their minds about him outside of a very few. Those who voted against him, 48% for Hillary and another 6% third party against both Trump and Hillary, basically still hold their same view. Of course some of those who disliked both candidates probably are now supporting Trump or at least approving of his handling of the pandemic. They probably still don't care for his rather uncouth behavior as president.

Lot's of probabilities. But perhaps some of those folks who were the in-between's, neither loving nor hating him have begun to show their approval. Anyone's guess I suppose.

 

[Jay59]

You really think so? The nationwide polls were pretty accurate, RCP showed Hillary with 46.8 vs. Trump with 43.6. Final result Hillary 48.2, Trump 46.1. Considering the margin of error of plus or minus 3 points, they were right on. A difference of 3.2 polling to the actual results of 2.1. It doesn't seem folks were holding back because of stigma.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Trump vs. Clinton

Of course that was 2016. Trump's approval was at 44% in Nov 2018, 53% disapprove, which almost matched the total vote received in the house. Republican congressional candidates 44.8%, democratic congressional candidates 53.4%. If it was stigma, that stigma carried right into the voting booth.

I've more of a mind that those who voted for Trump, 46% haven't changed their minds about him outside of a very few. Those who voted against him, 48% for Hillary and another 6% third party against both Trump and Hillary, basically still hold their same view. Of course some of those who disliked both candidates probably are now supporting Trump or at least approving of his handling of the pandemic. They probably still don't care for his rather uncouth behavior as president.

Lot's of probabilities. But perhaps some of those folks who were the in-between's, neither loving nor hating him have begun to show their approval. Anyone's guess I suppose.

I really think that Trump has no soft support in his poll numbers. As you point out, this is confirmed in the 2016 election results.

What I am saying is that other Presidents had transitory support, but not Trump. Right after 9/11, GW Bush was the most popular President since polling started. It did not last, partly because there was a systematic effort to discredit him, eg the coverage of Katrina. The same tactics have not worked on Trump, partly because they started using them the day he entered the race. It's been part of the fabric from the start, so it does not drive away transient support. Trump never had any.

 

[Perotista]

I really think that Trump has no soft support in his poll numbers. As you point out, this is confirmed in the 2016 election results.

What I am saying is that other Presidents had transitory support, but not Trump. Right after 9/11, GW Bush was the most popular President since polling started. It did not last, partly because there was a systematic effort to discredit him, eg the coverage of Katrina. The same tactics have not worked on Trump, partly because they started using them the day he entered the race. It's been part of the fabric from the start, so it does not drive away transient support. Trump never had any.

I agree. No soft support seems logical. And yes as I stated here numerous times, the Democrats set out to destroy Trump beginning the day after the election. I've basically put both sides on ignore. I don't listen to Trump nor the the Democratic propaganda. From what I'm seeing, numbers wise, that 48-46 result in 2016 is still basically there. For November it comes down to the 6% of who voted against both Hillary and Clinton. That on average a third of that 6% third party voters have come down on the side of Biden while the remaining 2/3rds remain undecided.

In other words, Trump hasn't enhanced his base or his support. It's the same as it was in 2016. Biden may be old, but he isn't as disliked by America as a whole as Hillary Clinton was. But of course these numbers are as of today without any general election campaigns or negative personal attack ads and all that is contained in the general election process. Also we don't know the effect of this Corona Virus. So far a few have moved towards Trump, but not probably as many as needed. Time will tell.

 

[snakestretcher]

You guys cannot stand to see Trump winning, again, so you bitch.

Trump has won nothing, ever. Even his election was a fluke of your electoral college. He has been a loser his entire life; his father would tell you if he was still alive.

 

[snakestretcher]

Because America isnt a dictatorship? If you want the government to run everything you and the other lefties can move to China or NK. The governors at the state level should be in charge, because its how the Federal government works.

No, this is a time of national emergency and Federal government should be leading, not devolving the responsibility it should be shouldering itself.

 

[snakestretcher]

Passing partisan blame is what you are doing. Shame on yourself.

It's not partisan to say that the city and state of New York depleted their emergency resources and did not replenish. That is a fact. FEMA is doing its job, and beyond for NYC and LA, but you want a magic wand. Grow up.

You cannot stockpile things like respirators which have a shelf life. Once time-expired they are useless. NOBODY ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD was prepared for this outbreak, so leave your political blame-slinging out of it.

 

[PoS]

No, this is a time of national emergency and Federal government should be leading, not devolving the responsibility it should be shouldering itself.

The last time we had a Brit telling America what to do, we threw him out, in 1776.

 

[What if...?]

A slight majority of Americans approve of Trump's handling so far of this pandemic. 50.5% approve, 45.4% disapprove.

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Public Approval of President Trump's Handling of the Coronavirus

One's view on how Trump has handled this crisis so far is very partisan. 84% of Democrats disapprove, 89% of Republicans approve. You can't get much more partisan than that. So the question then becomes, what do independents think? The more or less non-partisans, the non-affiliated, those who don't let the letter behind a person's name decide how they think. 48% of the non to less partisan folks, independents approve of Trump's handling of the Corona Virus, 42% disapprove.

Personally, I think it's a shame our two major parties can't come together, work together to beat this thing instead of continuing on with their partisan politics as usual. This makes me think neither party gives a damn about anything but gaining a political advantage.

Its really about which set of donors gets to go at us first and which set has to settle for sloppy seconds.

 

[Thoreau72]

I have never seen such incompetence in the Federal Govt. Fema is unable to handle the procurement and distribution of needed Medical supplies so each of the 50 States must bid against each other to grab what they can for themselves. What is the reason for this failure? It is one that will definitely cost American lives. Why can't Trump grow a pair and take the reigns on this? It is inexcusable and grounds for his removal. I'm really am sorry to say this but it is what it is.

This article might help explain why.

New Evidence Shows Trump—Who Says He Knew Covid-19 'Going to Be Horrible'—Allowed Exports of Crucial Supplies to Continue | Common Dreams News

 

[What if...?]

You guys cannot stand to see Trump winning, again, so you bitch.

Wait, what winning are you referring to?

Doesn't seem like anybody is winning right now.

And we know for certain that you think anything he does is winning.

History is gonna excoriated grump over this.

And he will live to see it irrevocably written.

That is our only solace.