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Trump’s Attempt to Circumvent Congress Leaves Uneasy Senate Republicans With Hard Choice

We are talking about Trump using the Emergencies Act to get something Congress would NOT give him. A poster said Obama did the same thing and he clearly did not.

In fact, I cannot find the case of a single president who used that same law to get something that Congress earlier turned him down on. Not one.

Again, because I know this is a difficult concept to wrap your head around, congress already appropriated the funds Trump is proposing to use for the wall. While it's true that those funds were not previously allocated to the wall they already existed in the budget. All Trump did is say, "Instead of paying for x we're going to pay for y". He would be FAR from the only president to do that.

You guys are saying that congress has to allocate every dime the executive spends. That's not the way it has EVER been. I mean, did congress authorize Obama to send $1.7 Billion cash to Tehran before he did it?

The United States, Iran, and $1.7 billion: Sorting out the details
 
We are talking about Trump using the Emergencies Act to get something Congress would NOT give him. A poster said Obama did the same thing and he clearly did not.

In fact, I cannot find the case of a single president who used that same law to get something that Congress earlier turned him down on. Not one.


That is because it has never happened, and I'm sure never will...
 
Again, because I know this is a difficult concept to wrap your head around, congress already appropriated the funds Trump is proposing to use for the wall. While it's true that those funds were not previously allocated to the wall they already existed in the budget. All Trump did is say, "Instead of paying for x we're going to pay for y". He would be FAR from the only president to do that.

You guys are saying that congress has to allocate every dime the executive spends. That's not the way it has EVER been. I mean, did congress authorize Obama to send $1.7 Billion cash to Tehran before he did it?

The United States, Iran, and $1.7 billion: Sorting out the details


Obama did not spend that money it belonged to Iranians, he just released it.
 
Obama did not spend that money it belonged to Iranians, he just released it.

While I've seen that argument before I figure keeping $400M we "owed" them is fair game for holding 52 Americans hostage for a year and a half.
 
circumvent Congress?
What is a president to do when Congress will not uphold their oath to the Constitution to secure our borders?

In 2017 more people died of drug overdoses mainly opiods such as heroin in the U.S. than all the Americans died during the Vietnam war.

Drug overdoses killed more Americans last year than the Vietnam War - CBS News

And these numbers continue to rise as how cheap heroin and fentanyl are on the street that is POURING through our southern border.

How many have to die before you morons admit it is a crisis we face as a nation? Right now many states are being forced to address legislation to disclose all housing once occupied by drug users and dealers as well as car rentals because the residue from fentanyl can be lethal. A grain no larger than salt can kill a person.


Have any of you viewed some of the fencing already along the border? If you have you would learn that there are a good number of miles that were erected to keep vehicles from driving across the border but they are certainly not adequate enough to keep people out. Arizona's border fencing is the worst in my opinion.

It costs taxpayers 100 billion state and federal over illegal immigration every year. When will you morons accept the fact that it is a crisis in cost? When it hits 200 billion, 300 billion?
It costs taxpayers billions every year over opiods pouring through the Southern border. But I have a feeling the morons on this forum don't pay much taxes and are more than happy to saddle the next generation with the tab because they are selfish arses.

The number of sex trafficking is way up in the past months. When will that become a crisis to you? Will it be if it is your daughter or granddaughter then you might find it to be a crisis then? What about gangs and bad people getting in? Will you only find that a crisis when they harm someone you love?


G-d help us.

Greetings, Vesper. :2wave:

Excellent post! :thumbs: It remains to be seen how much more decay will take place before we say "stop it NOW," and mean it, and I'm not just referring to the excellent points you raised in your post! What caused the other changes that we saw recently - the shouting outside the locked Supreme Court doors that had the rioters banging and scratching on the doors trying to force their way in while Kavanaugh was being sworn in - if I had not seen that with my own eyes while it was happening I would not have believed it - because this is America and not some third world example of what a lawless society looks and acts like!

One other horrible example of unbelievable news is that city workers in San Francisco have been told that it's their job to keep the streets and sidewalks clean of the dozens of piles of human feces (aka poop)mixed with discarded needles and other trash that are left on a daily basis by those who use the city streets as an large outdoor outhouse. (Those of us in other parts of the country that walk our dogs are just expected to carry paper towels in a plastic bag to put our dog's **** in). Perhaps somebody out there in Calif could explain the facts to those that really don't care???????? WTH is going on? :thumbdown:
 
Are you saying that DACA was done under the National Emergencies Act?

I do not see it on the list

President Barack Obama

Oct. 23, 2009: Declaration of a National Emergency With Respect to the 2009 H1N1 Influenza Pandemic, was never terminated or continued;
April 12, 2010 (still in effect): Blocking Property of Certain Persons Contributing to the Conflict in Somalia, continued in 2018;
Feb. 25, 2011 (still in effect): Blocking Property and Prohibiting Certain Transactions Related to Libya, continued in February 2018;
July 24, 2011 (still in effect): Blocking Property of Transnational Criminal Organizations, continued in July 2018;
May 16, 2012 (still in effect): Blocking Property of Persons Threatening the Peace, Security, or Stability of Yemen, continued in May 2012;
June 25, 2012: Blocking Property of the Government of the Russian Federation Relating to the Disposition of Highly Enriched Uranium Extracted from Nuclear Weapons, revoked in 2015;
March 6, 2014 (still in effect): Blocking Property of Certain Persons Contributing to the Situation in Ukraine, continued in March 2018;
April 3, 2014 (still in effect): Blocking Property of Certain Persons With Respect to South Sudan, continued in March 2018;
May 12, 2014 (still in effect): Blocking Property of Certain Persons Contributing to the Conflict in the Central African Republic, continued in May 2018;
March 8, 2015 (still in effect): Blocking Property and Suspending Entry of Certain Persons Contributing to the Situation in Venezuela, continued in March 2018;
April 1, 2015 (still in effect): Blocking the Property of Certain Persons Engaging in Significant Malicious Cyber-Enabled Activities, continued in March 2018;
Nov. 22, 2015 (still in effect): Blocking Property of Certain Persons Contributing to the Situation in Burundi, continued in November 2018.
Your the one trying to narrow the complaint to limit it to the national emergencies act. Is the complaint that he circumventing the will of congress or not?

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You are the one that brought up the 70's when Democrats were I control...…..deal with it *&***())

As per ****ing usual (70's on)....turns into the 70's.
Are you piece of **** for trying to say something I didn't say?
Or
Did you make a simple mistake by not reading the entire 1/2 a sentence?
Just tell me which one you are so I can know how to respond to you.
 
Again, because I know this is a difficult concept to wrap your head around, congress already appropriated the funds Trump is proposing to use for the wall. While it's true that those funds were not previously allocated to the wall they already existed in the budget. All Trump did is say, "Instead of paying for x we're going to pay for y". He would be FAR from the only president to do that.

You guys are saying that congress has to allocate every dime the executive spends. That's not the way it has EVER been. I mean, did congress authorize Obama to send $1.7 Billion cash to Tehran before he did it?

The United States, Iran, and $1.7 billion: Sorting out the details

Congress appropriates funds for specific expenditures. They did NOT allocate the funds that Trump wanted for his wall.
 
Your the one trying to narrow the complaint to limit it to the national emergencies act. Is the complaint that he circumventing the will of congress or not?

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Trump himself has invoked the National Emergencies Act as the authority which permits him to do this. I had nothing to do with his actions.

I can find no previous President who invoked and used the NEA as the authority to obtain funding for a purpose that was rejected by Congress.
 
1. “Feckless amount” is nonsensical. Learn the meaning of words before using them.
2. The vast majority of illegal drugs enter the United States through legal ports of entry, not shoved up the asses of illegal immigrants swimming/wading across the Rio Grande.
3. Hundreds of billion? You mean hundreds of billions of dollars? Yeah, that’s wrong too.

Geez, even Grokmaster usually gets one thing correct in his posts. How’s it feel to be one of the least informed people in this forum?

You can tell when someone's argument is weak. They start in on grammar corrections.

What illegal immigration, drug and human traffickers are costing this country yearly is outrageous and the damage these people cause starts the minute they cross our borders with the destruction of our protected federal lands. They trample animal habitats and vegetation either on foot or in vehicles. They have been the cause of several bad wildfires destroying hundreds of acres. They abandon their vehicles in the desert. They carve the names of their home cities in our 100 year old cactuses and they leave trails of trash that turns once beautiful places into dumps. Camp grounds along the borders have been closed to the public because they have become unsafe due to drug cartel activity.

Park Service: Illegals destroying federal lands, unsafe for camping
Trampled wilderness Illegal immigrants, drug traffickers destroying border parks - Brownsville Herald: Local News

There was a study completed last year over the destruction of our federal lands due to illegals and it took a FOIA to get it released. In the study it was the recommendation that barriers be put up on the border to protect the federal lands. And in the report it also stated that the damage was so severe in locations that it will never be restored.

So just one more way how illegal immigrats, drug and human traffickers are costing this country.
 
Trump’s Attempt to Circumvent Congress Leaves Uneasy Senate Republicans With Hard Choice

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Caring only about his own political optics, Trump has put the GOP in the onerous position of degrading their own Constitutional powers.

Will the GOP suddenly discover a spine? I highly doubt it.

There is no circumventing of congress. The President's #1 job is to keep Americans safe. This includes enforcing our laws and border security. The President is granted this authority in our Constitution in order to ensure our safety is never placed in jeopardy by an out of control congress. This congress is openly working to subvert the will of the people. Trump is exactly correct in what he is doing. Anyone supporting these traitorous members of congress should not call themselves Americans. Americans dont subvert a lawfully and duly elected president. I never thought I would live to see the day U.S. Citizens would be helping people from other countries violate our constitution. Pretty filthy people.
 
Trump himself has invoked the National Emergencies Act as the authority which permits him to do this. I had nothing to do with his actions.

I can find no previous President who invoked and used the NEA as the authority to obtain funding for a purpose that was rejected by Congress.
The national emergencies act does give him that authority. You dont seem to have a legitimate complaint if its narrowly tailored to that.

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There is no circumventing of congress. The President's #1 job is to keep Americans safe. This includes enforcing our laws and border security. The President is granted this authority in our Constitution in order to ensure our safety is never placed in jeopardy by an out of control congress. This congress is openly working to subvert the will of the people. Trump is exactly correct in what he is doing. Anyone supporting these traitorous members of congress should not call themselves Americans. Americans dont subvert a lawfully and duly elected president. I never thought I would live to see the day U.S. Citizens would be helping people from other countries violate our constitution. Pretty filthy people.

Oh boo-****ing-hoo. What a load of crap. Members of Congress are doing their job as laid out in the Constitution. That doesn’t make them, or those who agree with them, unAmerican anymore than your support of the most vile piece of trash to occupy the White House makes you unAmerican. The law that Trump is using to declare a national emergency to get around the fact that Congress won’t appropriate money for his egotistical wall also gives Congress the power to reverse that declaration of emergency through resolutions that the president can either sign or veto — and if he vetoes their resolution, his veto can be overridden by a two thirds vote like any other piece of legislation.

Deal with it, dude. But don’t fret. It won’t even get that far. The courts will stop this obviously unconstitutional move by Trump.
 
The national emergencies act does give him that authority. You dont seem to have a legitimate complaint if its narrowly tailored to that.

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That same law also gives Congress the authority to reverse his declaration
 
The national emergencies act does give him that authority. You dont seem to have a legitimate complaint if its narrowly tailored to that.

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Trump is using the National Emergencies Act to get something that Congress just turned him down on. No previous President has ever done that.
 
Trump is using the National Emergencies Act to get something that Congress just turned him down on. No previous President has ever done that.
Youre like a dog chasing his own tail. Now we are back to what i said initially. Presidents in the past have been known to defy the will of congress too. Trump isnt behaving extrodinary in that regard. If anything he is being typical.

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Whats stopping them?

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The only thing that can stop them is not having the votes to pass the resolution or override a veto if it gets that far. But per the law, Congress can pass a joint resolution to rescind the order.

But, you can bet that Trump will be stopped by the courts. And even in the unlikely event that the courts rule in Trump’s favor, it will still be tied up in law suits for years. Trump isn’t getting his wall.
 
The only thing that can stop them is not having the votes to pass the resolution or override a veto if it gets that far. But per the law, Congress can pass a joint resolution to rescind the order.

But, you can bet that Trump will be stopped by the courts. And even in the unlikely event that the courts rule in Trump’s favor, it will still be tied up in law suits for years. Trump isn’t getting his wall.
I said he has the suthority to do it, nothing else.

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The only thing that can stop them is not having the votes to pass the resolution or override a veto if it gets that far. But per the law, Congress can pass a joint resolution to rescind the order.

But, you can bet that Trump will be stopped by the courts. And even in the unlikely event that the courts rule in Trump’s favor, it will still be tied up in law suits for years. Trump isn’t getting his wall.

Not only is he not getting his Wall via this National Emergency and EO nonsense but he has foreclosed any chance that he will ever get another thin dime out of Congress for Border physical barrier funding. So while I do not share the view that we needed or need miles and miles of additional border barrier i would have at least liked the administration to act like an administration of Government which it never did for two years and for Congress to have an opportunity to do its job properly. That is now foreclosed. So for you folks that actually believe in the Wall or many more miles of additional physical border barrier, you can get mad now because your boy just foreclosed any opportunity of that happening. It will be interesting to see how much actual angst arrises. Was it all reality TV? Were you all sitting there simply entertained by this mess or did any of you self proclaimed wall proponents ever actually believe that miles and miles of additional physical border barrier was a solution to anything?

On top of that, Trumpets wherever you are, your boy made a complete fool of himself in the Rose Garden. It appeared that he did not even care that he had pantsed himself as an utter stooge in front of the whole world on his way to a plane to Mar-a-lago for some National Emergency golf!
 
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You can tell when someone's argument is weak. They start in on grammar corrections.
I didn’t post an argument to your post, I posted correct information to counter your ignorant and false assertions. Your use of “feckless” (an incompatible adjective), to describe the amount of drugs being brought into the United States was the first sign of what was, overall, a completely biased and un/ill informed post.

What illegal immigration, drug and human traffickers are costing this country yearly is outrageous and the damage these people cause starts the minute they cross our borders with the destruction of our protected federal lands. They trample animal habitats and vegetation either on foot or in vehicles. They have been the cause of several bad wildfires destroying hundreds of acres. They abandon their vehicles in the desert. They carve the names of their home cities in our 100 year old cactuses and they leave trails of trash that turns once beautiful places into dumps. Camp grounds along the borders have been closed to the public because they have become unsafe due to drug cartel activity.

Park Service: Illegals destroying federal lands, unsafe for camping
Trampled wilderness Illegal immigrants, drug traffickers destroying border parks - Brownsville Herald: Local News

There was a study completed last year over the destruction of our federal lands due to illegals and it took a FOIA to get it released. In the study it was the recommendation that barriers be put up on the border to protect the federal lands. And in the report it also stated that the damage was so severe in locations that it will never be restored.

So just one more way how illegal immigrats, drug and human traffickers are costing this country.
A not unimportant issue, but far from a compelling argument for “the wall”.
 
You're not "supposed" to do anything.

Congress is, however, supposed to stand up for the Constitution.

And I wish they would pay more attention to the Constitution...and to the people who voted them into office...than they do to the people who line their pockets with cash.
 
he has foreclosed any chance that he will ever get another thin dime out of Congress for Border physical barrier funding.

Congress has never intended to give Trump any money for border security. They only reason they caved and gave him a pittance is because he put them in a box. They had no choice.

Remember...when he asked Pelosi and Schumer for money, they said "NO!"

So, unless Trump puts them in another box, it's a given that they will never give him money for border security.
 
And I wish they would pay more attention to the Constitution...and to the people who voted them into office...than they do to the people who line their pockets with cash.



I think Trump's recent illegal action might well focus the minds of those otherwise ostrich like GOP Congressmen and Senators to do just that.
 
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