Transgender truth

[BrotherFease]

The entire point of this charade is that hypocritical religious conservatives need another minority to attack in their need to feel persecuted by reality after LGBT marriage became legal, so they have decided that transgender people are the newest target for their bigotry. Just once I'd like to know where in the Bible that Jesus told his followers to act in this manner if they claim to be driven by their religious beliefs.

The best part is that they are so ignorant of the transgdered situation is that they always forget that transgdered guys exist because of transgender males are forced to use the women's bathroom, because they were assigned female at birth, than any pervert can claim to be a trans guy and walk into the bathroom, without the need to crossdress.

Exactly. Trans people are the new targets from the religious right. And you're right, we can offer the reverse, bathroom bills can create avenues where perverts can wear their normal clothing and claim to be trans men.

Trans men are forgotten because when you hear the word "cross dresser" or "transvestites", you think of a man wearing women's clothing.

So anyway, I guess I answered the OP's question, seeing as how we no longer talk about scientific studies on transitioning. Now we're into sports and bathrooms.

 

[jotathought]

You also don't know the difference between sex and gender. Those words are not interchangeable.

They are changing their biological gender as much as medically possible. They would love to be able to change their DNA, but that isn't possible, so they change as much as medical science allows to align with the psychological gender identity.

We'll just have to disagree on the difference between sex and gender, as I use them interchangeably. In addition, changing the aesthetics of a human body, for example, surgically changing a penis to a vagina, doesn't make it a vagina. I get the physiological aspects of having the genitalia resemble the individuals desired state, I'm just going to again have to agree to disagree that it biologically changes the sex.

 

[Lisa]

We'll just have to disagree on the difference between sex and gender, as I use them interchangeably. In addition, changing the aesthetics of a human body, for example, surgically changing a penis to a vagina, doesn't make it a vagina. I get the physiological aspects of having the genitalia resemble the individual's desired state, I'm just going to again have to agree to disagree that it biologically changes the sex.

Your ignorance of biology and your bigotry do not determine facts or the reality of others.

Do you have a medical degree in any relevant field or did you merely listen to Hannity, O'Reilly, and Dr. Laura for the required amount of hours to become a conservative expert in the field of gender identity treatment? Did Trump U. offer a degree in their area of study that you also attained?


Transgendered women would love to have all of the functions as a CIS female, and the same goes for trans guys and CIS guys but that isn't medically possible, That also doesn't mean that they are not female. Do you see a person's DNA when you meet them and do you also ask if they are fertile and ask to inspect their organs before you decide what pronouns to use?

What pronouns do you use for people who are intersexxed? "Thing, freak, halfbreed, or It"?

 

[jotathought]

Your ignorance of biology and your bigotry do not determine facts or the reality of others.

Do you have a medical degree in any relevant field or did you merely listen to Hannity, O'Reilly, and Dr. Laura for the required amount of hours to become a conservative expert in the field of gender identity treatment? Did Trump U. offer a degree in their area of study that you also attained?


Transgendered women would love to have all of the functions as a CIS female, and the same goes for trans guys and CIS guys but that isn't medically possible, That also doesn't mean that they are not female. Do you see a person's DNA when you meet them and do you also ask if they are fertile and ask to inspect their organs before you decide what pronouns to use?

What pronouns do you use for people who are intersexxed? "Thing, freak, halfbreed, or It"?

I tend not to get emotionally invested when one doesn't agree with my opinion. I've never stated how I would interact with a transgendered individual, only that I don't agree with the biological and socially accepted aspects of transsexuals (e.g. gender fluidity, physical sex change from m-2-f or vice versa, etc.). I suggest you not play cognitive ventriloquist and attempt to speak for me. Not agreeing with your opinion doesn't make me a bigot.

 

[Lisa]

I tend not to get emotionally invested when one doesn't agree with my opinion. I've never stated how I would interact with a transgendered individual, only that I don't agree with the biological and socially accepted aspects of transsexuals (e.g. gender fluidity, physical sex change from m-2-f or vice versa, etc.). I suggest you not play cognitive ventriloquist and attempt to speak for me. Not agreeing with your opinion doesn't make me a bigot.

Not agreeing with me is a rejection of medical science and instead basing your views on bigotry and ignorance.

If you know so much about the subject then how would you treat the diagnosis of gender identity?

 

[BrotherFease]

We'll just have to disagree on the difference between sex and gender, as I use them interchangeably.

Except those two principles are not the same. Gender has to do with psychology, sex has to do with biology. I agree that they follow each other, but don't agree that they are the same thing.

 

[dairyair]

Trans-gendered participation in sports has been rather sparse until the last decade or so. The IOC only recently permitted trans-gendered athletes to participate in the Olympic games in 2004, and there have been no known trans-gendered participates. In 2021, there are 3 known trans-gendered participates out of 11,000 and one of them is Laurel Hubbard who has already set world and national records in weight lifting.

I say, the IOC has full authority to say who is or is not eligible to participate.
Discussions can and should happen. Especially among the athletes.
And the IOC should make a decision based on inputs.

 

[dairyair]

I've not stated that they can or can't compete. As you stated earlier, it not our choice on who gets selected and I'm in agreement; however, where we differ in opinion is whether it is fair or not for natural females to compete with transitioned men.

My take on whether they compete is up to the organizing body. Based on rules they determine.

 

[maquiscat]

It's not trans-gendered. It's transgender. Being trans is an innate characteristic. You don't "become trans".

Why do you contend they are not changing their biological sex? Sex or what I like to call it "sexual identity" can be there to describe someone's sex chromosomes, genitals, or hormonal levels. If you're changing ones hormonal balance or genitals, you're indeed changing your sex, hence the name "transsexual". If you define sex purely on chromosomes, then birth genitals should be discounted as a biological sex trait. Somebody can be born with XY chromosomes and have a vagina. Ever since we discovered sex chromosomes in the early 20th century, the definition of sex has evolved. I prefer seeing the sexual identity in reference to ones genitals. If you want to change your sex, you get a sex change or gender confirmation surgery.

Understanding the issues at hand is what confuses people like you. Again, I am not calling anybody bigots here. Just misinformed.

I think you have hit upon part of the problem. Language. It is evolving as our knowledge expands, and it's not settled yet. As you noted the discovery of the sex chromosomes, and later of the SRY gene has caused a lot of changes, and allows us to identify intersexed individuals who would never be known (and most still aren't) because there are no external indications.

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[maquiscat]

You also don't know the difference between sex and gender. Those words are not interchangeable.

They are changing their biological gender as much as medically possible. They would love to be able to change their DNA, but that isn't possible, so they change as much as medical science allows to align with the psychological gender identity.

They were though, especially in the colloquial, which is part of the problem.

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[Lisa]

They were though, especially in the colloquial, which is part of the problem.

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I had a human sexuality class in college and this is was one of the first points that the prof' made. Sex refers to an act of reproduction and mating. Gender refers to the male or femaleness of the person, either physically or psychologically. Our birth certificates and driver's license should have gender and not sex on them.

This is what they are transgendered and the situation is known as gender identity disorder and not sexual identity disorder.

 

[maquiscat]

I had a human sexuality class in college and this is was one of the first points that the prof' made. Sex refers to an act of reproduction and mating. Gender refers to the male or femaleness of the person, either physically or psychologically. Our birth certificates and driver's license should have gender and not sex on them.

This is what they are transgendered and the situation is known as gender identity disorder and not sexual identity disorder.

This still takes us back to the colloquial use of words. That is before we look back and see that sex was initially the predominantly used word, until uncomfortableness with its association with the act cause people to start using gender more, which was more about expression than the physical body. Then we got to a point that both words were interchangeable in the common parlance, even if not in the more academic.

BTW, the initial use for such people was transsexual, but there was a perception issue with it, so transgender started being use as it had a better implication.



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[Jason Warfield]

This is America. I'm not concerned with many of the personal choices people make ... until I'm encouraged/forced to accept these personal choices (e.g. more than 2 genders, self-identifying, sports participation, locker room sharing, etc.)

The thing that I find amusing about this argument of yours that others put out as well is that your aren't being forced to accept something that you already had, you just didn't know it. Let me explain...

Everything you listed when it comes to transgender and//or gay that you say you are being forced to accept...has been happening for centuries. It's always been there. The big difference between the past and now is that you are dealing with younger generations who don't think of it as such a big, offensive deal as you do. And as a result, what has always been there is now in the light.

And you can't un-see it or un-know it. And THAT is what is upsetting you.

You realize now that we aren't going back to the halcyon days of blissful ignorance. Back then, you never even thought if the guy next to you in the urinal was gay and if he was checking you out. Now, you do, and it makes you uncomfortable. Back then, you never wondered about a man identifying as a woman and entering the ladies locker room because you weren't aware of it happening. Now, you do, and it makes you uncomfortable. Back then, you never knew if your co-worker or friend was gay or considered themselves trans because no one talked about it. Now, you have to consider, the next time you are with your buddy or co-worker...you now wonder if they feel they are gay or trans and just hasn't said anything to you about it...and that makes you uncomfortable.

It's always been there. You've always accepted it because the times dictated that those people had to keep it quiet at the risk of losing jobs, friends, family and loved ones in addition to the specter of violence that might come their way. Now that we have younger generations who simply...don't care and accept because they are good in their own skins...it's fine for those who kept in the closet to be themselves.

As long as it was kept away from sight, your ignorance created a false sense of security for yourself, never realizing that you always knew it was there...as long as you didn't have to see it, you were okay. That was your acceptance of things that always exited.

But now you have to see it...something you always knew was there and you left it alone as long as it wasn't public...and you know you can't go back to ignoring it. THAT is what is bothering you; you've been accepting this, you just don't want to see it for yourself.

 

[dixon01767]

I couldn't find any scientific research showing longterm effects of changing sex with surgery and hormones, as compared to being gender dysphoric and not changing.

Transgender activism tells us that gender dysphoric people have a high rate of suicide, and therefore they must not be prevented from transitioning. But they don't tell us what the rate of suicide is for gender dysphorics who do transition.

I also have not seen research on the longterm effects of taking opposite sex hormones.

And what about the sex lives of transgenders? Can surgically created genitals be experienced as similar to real ones? It doesn't seem possible. Have any scientists bothered to study this?

The topic is avoided like the plague as anecdotal evidence indicates that the surgery accomplishes nothing regarding the mental health of the patient. The medical community that has been pushing this treatment for decades don't want to know the truth.

 

[dixon01767]

I had a human sexuality class in college and this is was one of the first points that the prof' made. Sex refers to an act of reproduction and mating. Gender refers to the male or femaleness of the person, either physically or psychologically. .

Revealing that you unquestionably believed him


1a : either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as female or male especially on the basis of their reproductive organs and structures
Sex | Definition of Sex by Merriam-Webster

 

[dixon01767]

This still takes us back to the colloquial use of words. That is before we look back and see that sex was initially the predominantly used word, until uncomfortableness with its association with the act cause people to start using gender more, which was more about expression than the physical body. Then we got to a point that both words were interchangeable in the common parlance, even if not in the more academic.

Actually we started at that point. Gender and sex used to mean the same thing until relatively recently.

 

[maquiscat]

Actually we started at that point. Gender and sex used to mean the same thing until relatively recently.

And before that they didn't. As noted they were initially separate, and it was only relatively recently that they merged. And even more relatively recently, they are experiencing a separation again, albeit in a different manner.

 

[BrotherFease]

The topic is avoided like the plague as anecdotal evidence indicates that the surgery accomplishes nothing regarding the mental health of the patient. The medical community that has been pushing this treatment for decades don't want to know the truth.

I have already showed studies/links that it does. Transitioning does indeed reduce/eliminate gender dysphoria. That's a fact. However, due to the amount of discrimination a trans person experiences can indeed impact their medical treatment.

 

[BrotherFease]

And before that they didn't. As noted they were initially separate, and it was only relatively recently that they merged. And even more relatively recently, they are experiencing a separation again, albeit in a different manner.

It should be noted that sex and gender ARE connected to each other and follow each other. Not disagreeing with your point. Words revolve and change around for a long time.

 

[maquiscat]

It should be noted that sex and gender ARE connected to each other and follow each other. Not disagreeing with your point. Words revolve and change around for a long time.

They normally do. Statistically speaking, a normal person is right handed, cis and straight. But not always. Some people are left handed instead. Others are gay or bisexual instead. And others are transgendered.

Some of this is also coming from a current greater understanding in the differences between sex, gender, gender presentation, and gender roles. All different things. Roles are purely social constructs and we have seen have they have changed and altered over the years. And to a point so is expression. Dress is a good example of such and we can also see how that changes over time. There isn't a bit of clothing worn by one gender now that hasn't been worn by the other before or currently. Now that is assuming that we are not counting cut as different. Jeans are jeans regardless of what sex they are cut/shaped for. It's also assumes that a change in name as irrelevant. Knickers and capris are the same things, as is a kilt nothing more that a wrapped skirt. One with a specific pattern, but a wrapped skirt nonetheless.

 

[BrotherFease]

They normally do. Statistically speaking, a normal person is right handed, cis and straight. But not always. Some people are left handed instead. Others are gay or bisexual instead. And others are transgendered.

Some of this is also coming from a current greater understanding in the differences between sex, gender, gender presentation, and gender roles. All different things. Roles are purely social constructs and we have seen have they have changed and altered over the years. And to a point so is expression. Dress is a good example of such and we can also see how that changes over time. There isn't a bit of clothing worn by one gender now that hasn't been worn by the other before or currently. Now that is assuming that we are not counting cut as different. Jeans are jeans regardless of what sex they are cut/shaped for. It's also assumes that a change in name as irrelevant. Knickers and capris are the same things, as is a kilt nothing more that a wrapped skirt. One with a specific pattern, but a wrapped skirt nonetheless.

It's a gigantic fallacy to live in a world, where every word is static. Doesn't change. Gay use to mean happy, now it means attraction to the opposite sex. Queer use to be a slur against homosexuals, now it's used for somebody who doesn't fit traditional society norms, and used to describe someone who is gay, lesbian, trans, bi or pans-sexual, or just plain gender non-conforming.

My belief here is why is it a big deal? A trans person is simply living the life that feels most comfortable to them. A man wants to wear a dress and make-up. So what? It's clothing and oils.

 

[maquiscat]

It's a gigantic fallacy to live in a world, where every word is static. Doesn't change. Gay use to mean happy, now it means attraction to the opposite sex. Queer use to be a slur against homosexuals, now it's used for somebody who doesn't fit traditional society norms, and used to describe someone who is gay, lesbian, trans, bi or pans-sexual, or just plain gender non-conforming.

Actually queer originally meant strange or odd. Then it went to a homosexual slur. Now, If I am understanding it correctly, it's a gender identity, similar to genderflex, but somehow different. Gay originally meant festive, which I think is easily unique from happy, although similar. ANd while we're there, fa*got initially mean a bundel of sticks. And to this day, it is slang in the UK for cigarettes. SO when a Brit says, "let's go drag a fag" they aren't going all KKK on you.

My belief here is why is it a big deal? A trans person is simply living the life that feels most comfortable to them. A man wants to wear a dress and make-up. So what? It's clothing and oils.

For that matter, whether they are a cis man or a trans woman, who cares what the clothes they wear are. This whole idea of men's and women's clothing, outside of cut, is stupid and idiotic. And women's clothes need more pockets!

 

[LadyMoonlight]

The topic is avoided like the plague as anecdotal evidence indicates that the surgery accomplishes nothing regarding the mental health of the patient. The medical community that has been pushing this treatment for decades don't want to know the truth.

Another thing that is also avoided, is the De-transition movement. Those who have had surgery to remove/change their genitalia, remove their breasts, taken hormones for years and want to change their choices and go back to what they were. The movement is large but usually kept underground due to the harassment of lefties who don't like their ideas and belief systems challenged in this area. It must be devastating for those who have mutilated their bodies to never be able to undo the damage that was done.

 

[BrotherFease]

Another thing that is also avoided, is the De-transition movement.

What "de-transition movement" are you referring to? Do some transgender people decide to untransition? Yes. The majority of them do not. I have actually posted studies on this very thread that show how transitioning helps to cure/reduce gender dysphoria.

 

[maquiscat]

What "de-transition movement" are you referring to? Do some transgender people decide to untransition? Yes. The majority of them do not. I have actually posted studies on this very thread that show how transitioning helps to cure/reduce gender dysphoria.

However, with that, there is indeed some doctors who are unscrupulous enough to push the transition without the full workup to ensure that the dysphoria is caused by transgenderism. This is why most of the community doesn't want anything outside of presentation to occur until legal adulthood AND after a full evaluation. The one area of exception seems to be the hormone blockers. And I do find myself on the side that says they should not be used, at least in the MtF's