Transgender truth

[jotathought]

No one is forcing you to accept these things. You are free to believe what you want to believe, just as others are. You are also free to complain about them on the internet, just as others are free to complain about you.

I like where you are going with this and we should all engage in civil debate on topics where we don't see eye to eye.

 

[dairyair]

This is America. I'm not concerned with many of the personal choices people make ... until I'm encouraged/forced to accept these personal choices (e.g. more than 2 genders, self-identifying, sports participation, locker room sharing, etc.)

You've been forced? What has been done to you?

I actually haven't met a transgender in person, so far, I've not been forced into anything.
But please, share your story of how you've been forced.

Where do you go where you share locker rooms?

 

[jotathought]

You've been forced? What has been done to you?

I actually haven't met a transgender in person, so far, I've not been forced into anything.
But please, share your story of how you've been forced.

Where do you go where you share locker rooms?

"Trans gendered females" participating in sports is a pretty tangible thing, and they are dominating natural females. It's evident "trans gendered females" are accepted as the equals to natural females and new world records are being recorded and codified. Additionally, there are numerous stories about men identifying as women utilizing female facilities, such as locker rooms and bathrooms -- several where sexual assaults have transpired (trans sexually assaulting females).

How are we not being encouraged (socially) / forced (legislatively) to accept this as the new normal?

 

[Lisa]

Intersex is such a rare case and accounts for less than 2% of US births. It's statistically insignificant. Besides, intersex individuals will typically have dominate features / characteristics of male or female and identify as so.

With several arrests and convictions on record where "transgendered females" have sexually assaulted natural females, I would challenge your last statement. Besides, what horny, high-school male wouldn't take advantage of a locker room full of scantly dressed females?

Many interested people are gender fluid or agender. I have a female friend who looks very androgynous when she doesn't have any makeup on. If it wasn't for her height and long hair you might question her gender.

The fact that it is rare doesn't mean that they do not exist. They do exist, so there are more than 2 genders.

But wait, you say, 1 in 2,000 sounds rare! Well, if only 1 in 2,000 persons is intersexed, then intersex is more common than cystic fibrosis, a condition most people have heard of. In fact, as Sherri Groveman pointed out in her article in Intersex in the Age of Ethics, if you do the math, you realize that there are more intersexed people in the world than there are Jewish people!

MYTH #10: Intersex is extremely rare | Intersex Society of North America

Depending on how you count them less than 1% of the population is transgendered.

A different survey in 2016, from the Williams Institute, estimated that 0.6% of U.S. adults identify as transgender. Studies from several nations, including the U.S., conducted at varying time periods, have produced a statistical range of 1.2 to 6.8 percent of the adult population identifying as LGBT.

Nobody gives a flying Flip Wilson if you accept them. Just treat them as you want to be treated and leave them alone to live their lives as they choose. They aren't asking to be liked by bigots and they certainly don't want to date people like you or even be your friend.

If he identifies as male and has male drives then he isn't transgendered. You just can't change your gender by the day to get into the female bathrooms. That's called sexual assault. Is this a fantasy of yours?

 

[dairyair]

"Trans gendered females" participating in sports is a pretty tangible thing, and they are dominating natural females. It's evident "trans gendered females" are accepted as the equals to natural females and new world records are being recorded and codified. Additionally, there are numerous stories about men identifying as women utilizing female facilities, such as locker rooms and bathrooms -- several where sexual assaults have transpired (trans sexually assaulting females).

How are we not being encouraged (socially) / forced (legislatively) to accept this as the new normal?

New world records, you say.
Care to share those world records you speak about?

Numerous stories of men utilizing female facilities? Care to actually provide some evidence?

Sex assaults have been going on since the term was invented. But I guarantee, transgender people are doing the assaults.

So, you personally have never been forced? Is that why you didn't bother to share your forcing for us? You are making this up?

 

[jotathought]

New world records, you say.
Care to share those world records you speak about?

Numerous stories of men utilizing female facilities? Care to actually provide some evidence?

Sex assaults have been going on since the term was invented. But I guarantee, transgender people are doing the assaults.

So, you personally have never been forced? Is that why you didn't bother to share your forcing for us? You are making this up?

Certainly .. here are a few sources

Transgendered female, Nova Maday settles

Martinez v. State: Transgendered female sexually assaults 10 year old

Rhinelander superintendent releases statement regarding alleged sexual assault at RHS


Trans woman sets cycling world record

Transgender Weightlifter Laurel Hubbard Set Masters World Records

 

[jotathought]

New world records, you say.
Care to share those world records you speak about?

Numerous stories of men utilizing female facilities? Care to actually provide some evidence?

Sex assaults have been going on since the term was invented. But I guarantee, transgender people are doing the assaults.

So, you personally have never been forced? Is that why you didn't bother to share your forcing for us? You are making this up?

As far as personally being forced, as legislation and local ordinances are being passed across the United States, we will all be required to share restrooms with trans-gendered individuals (outside of unisex restrooms). My statement was of things to come as this will be evolutionary and inevitable.

 

[Lisa]

As far as personally being forced, as legislation and local ordinances are being passed across the United States, we will all be required to share restrooms with trans-gendered individuals (outside of unisex restrooms). My statement was of things to come as this will be evolutionary and inevitable.

You have likely already shared a restroom with someone who is transgender and you didn't know that they were transgdered because they passed seamlessly, so what problem do you have with that idea?

I don't want transgender guys using the bathroom with me, or did you forget that trans guys exist?

 

[BrotherFease]

And what about the sex lives of transgenders? Can surgically created genitals be experienced as similar to real ones? It doesn't seem possible. Have any scientists bothered to study this?

Maybe this can help: What We Know | What does the scholarly research say about the effect of gender transition on transgender well-being? | What We Know

The article lists the varies studies on transitioning from one gender to another. I'll put the most important part in bold:

We conducted a systematic literature review of all peer-reviewed articles published in English between 1991 and June 2017 that assess the effect of gender transition on transgender well-being. We identified 55 studies that consist of primary research on this topic, of which 51 (93%) found that gender transition improves the overall well-being of transgender people, while 4 (7%) report mixed or null findings. We found no studies concluding that gender transition causes overall harm. As an added resource, we separately include 17 additional studies that consist of literature reviews and practitioner guidelines.

There's your answer. Statistically, people with gender dysphoria can be successfully treated, if they get medical treatment. The problem that exists is that transgender community face high levels of discrimination, in terms of employment and social acceptance. When a certain faction of a certain political party, is obsessed with denying transgender people homeless shelters, medical treatment, misgendering, and forcing them to use restrooms they are not comfortable in, ONLY hurts people trying to relieve the tension between mind and body. The suicide rate wouldn't be as high, if some people didn't treat them as criminals and assuming they are out to sexually abuse their daughter.

Please see the APA write-up here: Answers to your questions about transgender people, gender identity, and gender expression

More over, I have pointed out before, scientific studies in neurology have consistently found that transgender people's brains are shaped more than like their gender than their assigned sex at birth. See links below:

Research on the Transgender Brain: What You Should Know – Health Essentials from Cleveland Clinic

Are the Brains of Transgender People Different from Those of Cisgender People? | The Scientist Magazine(R)

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/

 

[BrotherFease]

You have likely already shared a restroom with someone who is transgender and you didn't know that they were transgdered because they passed seamlessly, so what problem do you have with that idea?

I don't want transgender guys using the bathroom with me, or did you forget that trans guys exist?

Their policy makes zero sense to me and completely illogical.

We don't have the potty patrol to monitor whose going in and out of bathrooms. We certainly don't want to require people to show their birth certificates or reveal their genitals in order to use a bathroom.

When people go into bathrooms and locker rooms, they are not staring at each other's genitals or adam's apple.

If we start to criminalize toilet usage rather than actually crimes, then what are we suggesting? A pregnant woman cannot use the men's room, if it's the closest bathroom available? Go ahead fine her, threw her in jail for doing that. How about people with IBS? How about if a single Dad is taking their daughter out for Ice Cream? Should the single Dad get fined or thrown in jail for going into the bathroom with his daughter?

There are a lot of transgender people who "pass" as the opposite sex. Most of them will not be impacted by "bathroom bills". But consider somebody who just starts their journey or transitioned later in life. These are the people who are most impacted by ignorant legislators.

To this day, no transgender person has ever committed a sex's crime in a public bathroom before.

 

[dairyair]

..del

 

[dairyair]

Certainly .. here are a few sources

Transgendered female, Nova Maday settles

Martinez v. State: Transgendered female sexually assaults 10 year old

Rhinelander superintendent releases statement regarding alleged sexual assault at RHS


Trans woman sets cycling world record

Transgender Weightlifter Laurel Hubbard Set Masters World Records

You said dominating.
How many world records are there in the world of sports.
You managed to find 5?

Any way, those sporting authority boards determine who can and can not participate. As it should be. Not you or I.

 

[dairyair]

As far as personally being forced, as legislation and local ordinances are being passed across the United States, we will all be required to share restrooms with trans-gendered individuals (outside of unisex restrooms). My statement was of things to come as this will be evolutionary and inevitable.

Newsflash.
You already share restrooms with trans-gendered individuals. And have been since restrooms were separated.

Unless you've been standing at the entrance asking to look at people's genitals before entering.

Of course it's inevitable. It's been going on for decades and decades already.

 

[BrotherFease]

You said dominating.
How many world records are there in the world of sports.
You managed to find 5?

Any way, those sporting authority boards determine who can and can not participate. As it should be. Not you or I.

This is my position as well. The Olympics and NCAA applies trans females to compete in women's leagues, if they have been on estrogen for at least 2 years and their hormonal levels are at genetic female level. Are trans females dominating at the Olympics or NCAA levels? Nope. The WNBA allows trans women into their league. Has their been a trans female basketball player in the WNBA? Nope.

States should decide their policies toward trans athletes, when it comes to sports in High Schools and Public Schools. But lets not pretend this is really about "fairness", it is really about this: Accepting transgender females as females and trans men as men. That's really what it is all about. This is why we're seeing religious groups up in arms about. They believe that God didn't create transgender people or gay people, it's something they made up for themselves.

The bigger fish to fry (transgender people playing sports is the least of the problems) is about how society as a whole treats somebody with gender dysphoria. If we continue to create laws in order to prevent them from being themselves, then we only making things worse.

 

[dairyair]

This is my position as well. The Olympics and NCAA applies trans females to compete in women's leagues, if they have been on estrogen for at least 2 years and their hormonal levels are at genetic female level. Are trans females dominating at the Olympics or NCAA levels? Nope. The WNBA allows trans women into their league. Has their been a trans female basketball player in the WNBA? Nope.

States should decide their policies toward trans athletes, when it comes to sports in High Schools and Public Schools. But lets not pretend this is really about "fairness", it is really about this: Accepting transgender females as females and trans men as men. That's really what it is all about. This is why we're seeing religious groups up in arms about. They believe that God didn't create transgender people or gay people, it's something they made up for themselves.

The bigger fish to fry (transgender people playing sports is the least of the problems) is about how society as a whole treats somebody with gender dysphoria. If we continue to create laws in order to prevent them from being themselves, then we only making things worse.

This is nothing new for those sports organizations.

There has been cases going back decades of is this person male or female.
The scale between 100% male and 100% female is an analog scale.

Full genetic females can have extremely high testosterone naturally. Making them more male like in body tone.

See Caster Semenya: Female athlete with high testosterone level loses fight against medication
Caster Semenya: Female athlete with high testosterone level loses fight against medication | World News | Sky News

I really don't understand how individuals like me, you, and this jot person thinks they should have a say in what is trans or not trans. Who can or can't compete.
None of us have the understanding and knowledge to make any sort of informed decision. Any decision any layperson has is purely emotional.

 

[jotathought]

You said dominating.
How many world records are there in the world of sports.
You managed to find 5?

Any way, those sporting authority boards determine who can and can not participate. As it should be. Not you or I.

Trans-gendered participation in sports has been rather sparse until the last decade or so. The IOC only recently permitted trans-gendered athletes to participate in the Olympic games in 2004, and there have been no known trans-gendered participates. In 2021, there are 3 known trans-gendered participates out of 11,000 and one of them is Laurel Hubbard who has already set world and national records in weight lifting.

 

[maquiscat]

There are a lot of transgender people who "pass" as the opposite sex. Most of them will not be impacted by "bathroom bills". But consider somebody who just starts their journey or transitioned later in life. These are the people who are most impacted by ignorant legislators.

Not to mention those cis individuals who do not express themselves in the current gender norm. I remember a cis girl, who looked like a boy, being denied access to the women's restroom. So it won't be just trans people who are affect by such laws.

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[jotathought]

I really don't understand how individuals like me, you, and this jot person thinks they should have a say in what is trans or not trans. Who can or can't compete.
None of us have the understanding and knowledge to make any sort of informed decision. Any decision any layperson has is purely emotional.

I've not stated that they can or can't compete. As you stated earlier, it not our choice on who gets selected and I'm in agreement; however, where we differ in opinion is whether it is fair or not for natural females to compete with transitioned men.

 

[BrotherFease]

Not to mention those cis individuals who do not express themselves in the current gender norm. I remember a cis girl, who looked like a boy, being denied access to the women's restroom. So it won't be just trans people who are affect by such laws.

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Precisely. People are trying to solve a "problem" that doesn't exist. All what they are doing is causing problems for everybody, simply because they disagree with modern science.

 

[maquiscat]

I've not stated that they can or can't compete. As you stated earlier, it not our choice on who gets selected and I'm in agreement; however, where we differ in opinion is whether it is fair or not for natural females to compete with transitioned men.

I think it's not fair to force individuals to compete outside their peer group. In the context of sports, that would be those they are on equal footing with regardless of gender. There have been cis women who have tried be allowed to compete with men because they recognize they outstrip other women. There have been women who have broken men's records. That doesn't preclude their record being broken later by another male.

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[BrotherFease]

I've not stated that they can or can't compete. As you stated earlier, it not our choice on who gets selected and I'm in agreement; however, where we differ in opinion is whether it is fair or not for natural females to compete with transitioned men.

Here's where you're confused or potentially uninformed.

If somebody is an MTF (Male-to-Female), they are a transgender female or a transsexual female, not a male. It's basically about somebody changing their biological sex, whether through hormones or various surgeries.

Fairness is a subjective terminology, especially in this case. Is it fair that somebody who went through male puberty is can compete with women period? But on the other hand, is it fair to deny someone the ability to play sports simply because their brain and body are on different wavelengths and seeking medical treatment to reduce or eliminate such disconnect?

If we move beyond transgender athletes, and look at this way: Back when Jackie Robinson wanted to play professional baseball, people argued that he shouldn't be allowed to play because black people have a competitive advantage over white people. There are female basketball players who are as tall or even taller than men's basketball players, does that mean a 6'4 to 6'9 female basketball should be playing with the men instead? More over, should we segregate sports leagues, especially football and basketball, because black players outnumber white players?

This thread literally started off with commenting on whether or not gender transition helps out people with gender dyphoria, and I showed links showing it does, and now we're obsessed with sports.

 

[jotathought]

Here's where you're confused or potentially uninformed.

If somebody is an MTF (Male-to-Female), they are a transgender female or a transsexual female, not a male. It's basically about somebody changing their biological sex, whether through hormones or various surgeries.

We'll just have to agree to disagree that trans-gendered females/males are not changing their biological sex. Biological sex is assigned at birth.

 

[BrotherFease]

We'll just have to agree to disagree that trans-gendered females/males are not changing their biological sex. Biological sex is assigned at birth.

It's not trans-gendered. It's transgender. Being trans is an innate characteristic. You don't "become trans".

Why do you contend they are not changing their biological sex? Sex or what I like to call it "sexual identity" can be there to describe someone's sex chromosomes, genitals, or hormonal levels. If you're changing ones hormonal balance or genitals, you're indeed changing your sex, hence the name "transsexual". If you define sex purely on chromosomes, then birth genitals should be discounted as a biological sex trait. Somebody can be born with XY chromosomes and have a vagina. Ever since we discovered sex chromosomes in the early 20th century, the definition of sex has evolved. I prefer seeing the sexual identity in reference to ones genitals. If you want to change your sex, you get a sex change or gender confirmation surgery.

Understanding the issues at hand is what confuses people like you. Again, I am not calling anybody bigots here. Just misinformed.

 

[Lisa]

Their policy makes zero sense to me and completely illogical.

We don't have the potty patrol to monitor whose going in and out of bathrooms. We certainly don't want to require people to show their birth certificates or reveal their genitals in order to use a bathroom.

When people go into bathrooms and locker rooms, they are not staring at each other's genitals or adam's apple.

If we start to criminalize toilet usage rather than actual crimes, then what are we suggesting? A pregnant woman cannot use the men's room, if it's the closest bathroom available? Go ahead fine her, threw her in jail for doing that. How about people with IBS? How about if a single Dad is taking their daughter out for Ice Cream? Should the single Dad get fined or thrown in jail for going into the bathroom with his daughter?

There are a lot of transgender people who "pass" as the opposite sex. Most of them will not be impacted by "bathroom bills". But consider somebody who just starts their journey or transitioned later in life. These are the people who are most impacted by ignorant legislators.

To this day, no transgender person has ever committed a sex's crime in a public bathroom before.

The entire point of this charade is that hypocritical religious conservatives need another minority to attack in their need to feel persecuted by reality after LGBT marriage became legal, so they have decided that transgender people are the newest target for their bigotry. Just once I'd like to know where in the Bible that Jesus told his followers to act in this manner if they claim to be driven by their religious beliefs.

The best part is that they are so ignorant of the transgdered situation is that they always forget that transgdered guys exist because of transgender males are forced to use the women's bathroom, because they were assigned female at birth, than any pervert can claim to be a trans guy and walk into the bathroom, without the need to crossdress.

BTW, Just once Id like for a religious conservative to explain why is it that much of the world can have unisex bathrooms without an issue but somehow transgdered people are a huge problem in the US?

 

[Lisa]

We'll just have to agree to disagree that trans-gendered females/males are not changing their biological sex. Biological sex is assigned at birth.

You also don't know the difference between sex and gender. Those words are not interchangeable.

They are changing their biological gender as much as medically possible. They would love to be able to change their DNA, but that isn't possible, so they change as much as medical science allows to align with the psychological gender identity.