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Tibbetts death not about immigration: family

Luckyone said:
The fact the man was an illegal does not change anything. There is 1 rape every minute of the day in the United States and 1000 corpses every year from sexual predators and though this 1 death may have been prevented if this man had not entered the U.S. illegally, it does not mean that illegal immigrants are what is causing the problem. It is sexual predating that is causing the problem. 1 out of 1000 is not a good reason for Trump to go bananas over this and blame illegal immigration. What Trump should actually be doing is keying on sexual predators and not on trying to simply please his base.

https://www.thenation.com/article/rape-minute-thousand-corpses-year/
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That's like saying the fact that some kid shot up a school because his parents didn't lock up their guns doesn't mean anything. Of course it means everything because but for that kid getting his hands on guns, people would still be alive.
There are mitigating factors in most situations and if you could remove any of them, why wouldn't you.

Why does our government fee that protecting us from people who should never be here in the first place is no longer their duty?
 
Kal'Stang said:
And you are ignoring that if the guy hadn't been here illegally Molly Tibbets would still be alive.
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Firstly, you don't know that. That is an assumption.

Secondly, if her killer was a white dude you wouldn't hear a goddamn word from Trump, a predator himself who asked Alabama to vote for a predator.
 
Linc said:
And you are ignoring what ‘trump’s tribe’ is doing to divide the Nation with its RACE Wars.
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Hate to break it to you but race has nothing to do with illegal immigration. Or did you not know that people from all over the world of all races enters the US illegally or over stays their VISA's? You should study up more.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I am sick and tired of them already.
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So now we have Hawkeye10, trump/GOP representative, telling us he’s ‘sick 😷 and tired 💤 ‘ of the Mollie Tibbetts family.

Expected that GOPs, Indy CONs, and Libertarian Rightists would turn on the Tibbetts’ family when they didn’t goose-step to SStephen Miller.

Using Mollie’s Death 💀 by the alt-Rightists went down to burn in their Hell.
 
nota bene said:
Tibbetts' disappearance was about yet another missing coed. Her death is about sexual predators and also violence against women...and it's also, because the murderer is here illegally, about illegal immigration. There is no either/or here.
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Countries will always have illegal immigrants.
 
Mr Person said:
But even that doesn't really mean much. So long as persons of various categories commit crimes at a rate, then less people = less total crimes.
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Total crime is a meaningless number and used to manipulate simpletons into blaming huge swaths of people for the crimes of a few.

If we're going to take action to reduce total crime, shouldn't we start with the highest rate? Maybe ex-cons? There are millions of people we could imprison or export to reduce total crime - if that's the issue.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Firstly, you don't know that. That is an assumption.

Secondly, if her killer was a white dude you wouldn't hear a goddamn word from Trump, a predator himself who asked Alabama to vote for a predator.
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The killer was an illegal alien, who is probably “white” as in majority European ancestry though, so it’s irrelvant and not an argument.
 
Kal'Stang said:
2: You made the assertion. You're the one required to prove it. Sorry eco, I'm not doing your homework for you. Don't forget to show your work.
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:lol:

I think someone else explained the 1+1 of it for you, above.
 
Kal'Stang said:
No, that is a fact. He was the killer. No one else was. It would be an assumption to assume that someone else would have committed the crime.
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It's not a fact unless you are omnipotent and know everyone's only possible fate.
 
Linc said:
So now we have Hawkeye10, trump/GOP representative, telling us he’s ‘sick �� and tired �� ‘ of the Mollie Tibbetts family.

Expected thst GOPs, Indy CONs, and Libertarian Rightists would turn on the Tibbetts’ family when they didn’t goose-step to SStephen Miller.
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I represent myself and my understanding of Truth.

Another fail for you.

:failpail:
 
Kal'Stang said:
And those studies do not take into account

Coming to the US illegally, which is a crime.
Obtaining jobs while in the US illegally, which is a crime.
Using fake identification (SSN's for example), which is a crime.
Obtaining stolen identification (again, SSN's for example), which is a crime.
Using stolen identification (SSN's again), which is a crime.
Failure to pay income taxes (for those that work under the table), which is a crime.
Many illegal immigrants do not have licenses or liability insurance, which are also crimes.

Tell me, do any of your "studies", or you even, take ANY of the above CRIMES into account when they publish their studies? ANY of them?
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How do you know what "those studies"..."take into account"? I've seen a few such studies, all of which address the issue of violent crime (not non-violent/misdemeanor/petty crime). How about you?

That said:

--entering the country without proper documentation is a simple misdemeanor.
--working illegally is NOT a crime, but HIRING illegally is. So the criminals are not the undocumented workers, but the employers who hire them in order to pay low wages and avoid benefits, etc.
---the issue here is SAFETY and the FACT that studies have shown (over and over) that undocmented immigrants commit LESS violent crime than native board citizens. So all of the ID violations you raised are irrelevant.
 
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Kal'Stang said:
No, that is a fact. He was the killer. No one else was. It would be an assumption to assume that someone else would have committed the crime.
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Why such a big deal over this one, Kal? Why so angry 😤 at the Tibbetts’ family?

They see right through this polarizing politicization by the Right.
 
ecofarm said:
Mr Person said:
But even that doesn't really mean much. So long as persons of various categories commit crimes at a rate, then less people = less total crimes.
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Total crime is a meaningless number and used to manipulate simpletons into blaming huge swaths of people for the crimes of a few.

If we're going to take action to reduce total crime, shouldn't we start with the highest rate? Maybe ex-cons? There are millions of people we could imprison or export to reduce total crime - if that's the issue.
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I wasn't saying anything about not starting with the highest rate:

Mr Person said:
His point is that because illegals commit crimes at a lower rate than American citizens (See post# 46 and the entire Cato article it quotes), the total rate of crimes committed by anyone in America is lower than it would be if only Americans were here and the us only Americans committing crimes. Again, because American citizens commit crimes at higher rate than do illegal immigrants.

Simple math.

Obviously, the absolute number of crimes would be lower if we simply got rid of illegals, but he was talking about the total rate at which crime is committed in the U.S. But even that doesn't really mean much. So long as persons of various categories commit crimes at a rate, then less people = less total crimes.
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Hawkeye10 said:
I represent myself and my understanding of Truth. Another fail for you. :failpail:
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The only ones failing here are the ones called out by the Tibbetts’ family for politicizing Mollie’s Death, just as with John McCain, Barbara Bush — All Death 💀
 
Kal'Stang said:
So you're refusing to back up your assertion. Not surprised.
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Why would he waste his time on you when you are deliberately ignoring things that make you wrong? For example,



Post#46

Per Cato,


President Trump recently held an event with some of the relatives of people killed by illegal immigrants in the United States. Afterward, the White House sent out a press release with some statistics to back up the President’s claims about the scale of illegal immigrant criminality. The President’s claims are in quotes and my responses follow.According to a 2011 government report, the arrests attached to the criminal alien population included an estimated 25,000 people for homicide. Criminal aliens is defined as non-U.S. citizen foreigners, which includes legal immigrants who have not naturalized and illegal immigrants. The 25,064 homicide arrests he referred to occurred from August 1955 through April 2010 – a 55-year period. During that time, there were about 934,000 homicides in the United States. As a side note, I had to estimate the number of homicides for 1955-1959 by working backward. Assuming that those 25,064 arrested aliens actually were convicted of 25,064 homicides, then criminal aliens would have been responsible for 2.7 percent of all murders during that time period. During the same time, the average non-citizen resident population of the United States was about 4.6 percent per year. According to that simple back of the envelope calculation, non-citizen residents were underrepresented among murderers.

In Texas alone, within the last seven years, more than a quarter million criminal aliens have been arrested and charged with over 600,000 criminal offenses. We recently published a research brief examining the Texas data on criminal convictions and arrests by immigration status and crime. In 2015, Texas police made 815,689 arrests of native-born Americans, 37,776 arrests of illegal immigrants, and 20,323 arrests of legal immigrants. For every 100,000 people in each subgroup, there were 3,578 arrests of natives, 2,149 arrests of illegal immigrants, and 698 arrests of legal immigrants. The arrest rate for illegal immigrants was 40 percent below that of native-born Americans. The arrest rate for all immigrants and legal immigrants was 65 percent and 81 percent below that of native-born Americans, respectively. The homicide arrest rate for native-born Americans was about 5.4 per 100,000 natives, about 46 percent higher than the illegal immigrant homicide arrest rate of 3.7 per 100,000. Related to this, the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services recently released data that showed the arrest rate for DACA recipients about 46 percent below that of the resident non-DACA population.


https://www.cato.org/blog/white-houses-misleading-error-ridden-narrative-immigrants-crime




Post#57, which responded to:
Kal'Stang said:
Oh I would LOVE for you to prove this assertion.
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His point is that because illegals commit crimes at a lower rate than American citizens (See post# 46 and the entire Cato article it quotes), the total rate of crimes committed by anyone in America is lower than it would be if only Americans were here and the us only Americans committing crimes. Again, because American citizens commit crimes at higher rate than do illegal immigrants.

Simple math.

Obviously, the absolute number of crimes would be lower if we simply got rid of illegals, but he was talking about the total rate at which crime is committed in the U.S. But even that doesn't really mean much. So long as persons of various categories commit crimes at a rate, then less people = less total crimes.
 
Funny how Trump and his Tribe loved the grim Tibbetts story.

That is, until the Tibbetts family told Trump and his Tribe to shove their bigotry.

Now they're what? Enemies of the people? Geezuz. The Tribal creatures are so transparent and oh so pathetic.
 
Rogue Valley said:
It's not a fact unless you are omnipotent and know everyone's only possible fate.
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Yes, it is a fact. And you don't need to be omnipotent to know so. All that you're attempting to do here is play the "what if" game. It's a useless game because we know for a fact who the killer is. If he had not killed her she would be alive. That is a fact. Not supposition. Not assumption. Fact.

Tell me, are you going to go up to Tibbets family and tell them that she would still be dead if her known killer hadn't killed her? That maybe she would have instead died in a car crash due to a deer? I would bet that the answer would be "no". You wouldn't. I on the other hand have no problem going up to them and telling them that if her killer hadn't been here illegally then she would still be alive.
 
Mr Person said:
I wasn't saying anything about starting with the highest rate:
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I know, I was. If rate is meaningless and total matters, then we're in the wrong place. If total is our concern, only an idiot wouldn't start at the higher rate populations. That's citizens. Ex-cons. So, if someone wants to cry about total, or pretend that number has any meaning whatsoever, they need to get to work on citizens first. Unless it's not really about crime.
 
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