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Tibbetts death not about immigration: family

Mr Person said:
Per Cato,


President Trump recently held an event with some of the relatives of people killed by illegal immigrants in the United States. Afterward, the White House sent out a press release with some statistics to back up the President’s claims about the scale of illegal immigrant criminality. The President’s claims are in quotes and my responses follow.According to a 2011 government report, the arrests attached to the criminal alien population included an estimated 25,000 people for homicide. Criminal aliens is defined as non-U.S. citizen foreigners, which includes legal immigrants who have not naturalized and illegal immigrants. The 25,064 homicide arrests he referred to occurred from August 1955 through April 2010 – a 55-year period. During that time, there were about 934,000 homicides in the United States. As a side note, I had to estimate the number of homicides for 1955-1959 by working backward. Assuming that those 25,064 arrested aliens actually were convicted of 25,064 homicides, then criminal aliens would have been responsible for 2.7 percent of all murders during that time period. During the same time, the average non-citizen resident population of the United States was about 4.6 percent per year. According to that simple back of the envelope calculation, non-citizen residents were underrepresented among murderers.

In Texas alone, within the last seven years, more than a quarter million criminal aliens have been arrested and charged with over 600,000 criminal offenses. We recently published a research brief examining the Texas data on criminal convictions and arrests by immigration status and crime. In 2015, Texas police made 815,689 arrests of native-born Americans, 37,776 arrests of illegal immigrants, and 20,323 arrests of legal immigrants. For every 100,000 people in each subgroup, there were 3,578 arrests of natives, 2,149 arrests of illegal immigrants, and 698 arrests of legal immigrants. The arrest rate for illegal immigrants was 40 percent below that of native-born Americans. The arrest rate for all immigrants and legal immigrants was 65 percent and 81 percent below that of native-born Americans, respectively. The homicide arrest rate for native-born Americans was about 5.4 per 100,000 natives, about 46 percent higher than the illegal immigrant homicide arrest rate of 3.7 per 100,000. Related to this, the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services recently released data that showed the arrest rate for DACA recipients about 46 percent below that of the resident non-DACA population.

https://www.cato.org/blog/white-houses-misleading-error-ridden-narrative-immigrants-crime



:shrug:
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Totally irrelevant, every single one of those crimes should never have happened here.

Only 25,000 fewer murders? Well let’s make it zero.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Totally irrelevant, every single one of those crimes should never have happened here.

Only 25,000 fewer murders? Well let’s make it zero.
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Actually it is directly relevant to claims made in this thread, such as this false claim:

Crovax said:
Illegal immigrants by their very nature commit more crimes than citizens
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Smug and wrong is an ugly thing, EMN.
 
nota bene said:
Tibbetts' disappearance was about yet another missing coed. Her death is about sexual predators and also violence against women...and it's also, because the murderer is here illegally, about illegal immigration. There is no either/or here.
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The family of Mollie Tibbetts has spoken, only because of the politicization of Mollie’s Death 💀 — by GOPs, Indy CONs, and Libertarian Rightists. Thanx to them for further breaking the hearts of Mollie’s Family.

There remains no False-Equivalence from those here. There remains no ranking of causes by those continuing to fail to divide America over Immigratiin Reform.

Since all we see is polarizing politicization from the Right, the employer was a Republican. Republicans have a made a fortune 🔮 over the centuries using illegal farm labor, and KNOWING It.
 
ecofarm said:
If all the undocumented immigrants left the country, our crime rate would go up. So we can't hang crime on them.

And we definitely cannot, in the fog of hate, compare them to Pearl Harbor.
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Oh I would LOVE for you to prove this assertion.
 
ecofarm said:
If all the undocumented immigrants left the country, our crime rate would go up. So we can't hang crime on them.

And we definitely cannot, in the fog of hate, compare them to Pearl Harbor.
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It would be nice if you actually quote me. I don't hate anyone. I made a logical comparision. I was in no way trying to say that the two are equal. If the fact that illegal aliens commit less crime (other than the crime of crossing the border illegally) is enough to say that they aren't a problem, then by the same logic, since the attack on Pearl Harbor killed less people than that year's murder rate, it wasn't a problem.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Mollie's death has nothing to do with immigration. That is a Trump/Miller meme.
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Only if you discount the fact that he was here illegally. They are correct that it is also about male on female violence. But they are wrong that illegal immigration has nothing to do with this.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Mollie's death has nothing to do with immigration. That is a Trump/Miller meme.
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How does that answer my question first of all? Second, what evidence do you have that illegal aliens and the lack of immigration enforcement had nothing to do with this?
 
Kal'Stang said:
Oh I would LOVE for you to prove this assertion.
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You know undocumented immigrants commit crime at a lower rate than citizens, right? When a subpopulation of a lower rate leaves a population, what happens to the rate? For a bonus star, show your work.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Oh I would LOVE for you to prove this assertion.
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His point is that because illegals commit crimes at a lower rate than American citizens (See post# 46 and the entire Cato article it quotes), the total rate of crimes committed by anyone in America is lower than it would be if only Americans were here and the us only Americans committing crimes. Again, because American citizens commit crimes at higher rate than do illegal immigrants.

Simple math.

Obviously, the absolute number of crimes would be lower if we simply got rid of illegals, but he was talking about the total rate at which crime is committed in the U.S. But even that doesn't really mean much. So long as persons of various categories commit crimes at a rate, then less people = less total crimes.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Only if you discount the fact that he was here illegally. They are correct that it is also about male on female violence. But they are wrong that illegal immigration has nothing to do with this.
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Thank you 🙏 for telling us how wrong the Mollie Tibbetts family is, Kal.

Goes hand-in-hand with GOP Senators blaming John McCain for the most disgraceful behavior of #45, since you always defend YOUR analogies.
 
Mr Person said:
Actually it is directly relevant to claims made in this thread, such as this false claim:






Smug and wrong is an ugly thing, EMN.
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It’s true, it is impossible to be illegally in the US while violating no laws, so every single person here illegally has committed a crime, in fact at least two, likely three. Illegal entry, working illegally, and usually using fraudulent or stolen documents
 
Kal'Stang said:
Can YOU prove it?
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Can you not? You’re the challenger! Remember, we’re on ‘Debate Politics’, where you must put up your original challenge.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
It’s true, it is impossible to be illegally in the US while violating no laws, so every single person here illegally has committed a crime, in fact at least two, likely three. Illegal entry, working illegally, and usually using fraudulent or stolen documents
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I'll type slowly for you this time.

1. ecofarm said illegals commit crimes at a LOWER RATE than American citizens.

2. Crovax said "Illegal immigrants by their very nature commit more crimes than citizens "

3. The post you initially responded to without reading proves that Crovax is wrong.
 
Kal'Stang said:
And you are ignoring that if the guy hadn't been here illegally Molly Tibbets would still be alive.
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And you are ignoring what ‘trump’s tribe’ is doing to divide the Nation with its RACE Wars.
 
ecofarm said:
You know undocumented immigrants commit crime at a lower rate than citizens, right? When a subpopulation of a lower rate leaves a population, what happens to the rate? For a bonus star, show your work.
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1: Only studies that ignore the crimes I listed in my other post will show that. Or studies that only focus on convictions while ignoring everything else will show that.

2: You made the assertion. You're the one required to prove it. Sorry eco, I'm not doing your homework for you. Don't forget to show your work.
 
Mr Person said:
I'll type slowly for you this time.

1. ecofarm said illegals commit crimes at a LOWER RATE than American citizens.

2. Crovax said "Illegal immigrants by their very nature commit more crimes than citizens "

3. The post you initially responded to without reading proves that Crovax is wrong.
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No they don’t, because every single illegal alien has committed a crime. Period, the rate thus cannot be lower. It’s impossible
 
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