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Thoughts on God and Gays! [W: 472]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

God does not approve of torture, that is a fact...

You didn't answer the question: what of the mass murderers of the children of God?
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

Actually, the "rich man" represented the unrepentant sinner with no need of a savior in this life and the poor man represented the man without remedy apart from a savior. They both died. Both of their souls were separated from their bodies. The Greek word used here for hell is is hades, and it means the same thing every place it is used, realm of the dead, BUT, the word básanos, which is also used, means the same thing every time it is used: torment, disease, pains in hell. I don't know if hades is really a place of fire, but I do believe this: God will not force people who want nothing to do with Him in this life into His presence in the next life. In the parable the rich man sees Lazarus from a distance and even says there is a gulf fixed between them so that you can't pass from one place to the other. If you are separated from God there is no way to get back to Him even if it isn't fiery torture separation from God will surely seem that way, and the pain that you feel will be like fire in the belly knowing that it didn't have to be this way and you chose your own fate. Now that's hell.

And like I said before, God's own creation - us - we do torture and murder our own children, we do rob, steal, kill, some of us murder hundreds, thousands, millions. The lives those people have taken have taken a toll that once they have waited until it's too late they will not get out until they have paid the last penny. And they can't.

And not the 1st scripture to support that...because there are none...

Hellfire has it origins in pagan beliefs...

In ancient Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs the “nether world . . . is pictured as a place full of horrors, and is presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” (The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, Boston, 1898, Morris Jastrow, Jr., p. 581) Early evidence of the fiery aspect of Christendom’s hell is found in the religion of ancient Egypt. (The Book of the Dead, New Hyde Park, N.Y., 1960, with introduction by E. A. Wallis Budge, pp. 144, 149, 151, 153, 161) Buddhism, which dates back to the 6th century B.C.E., in time came to feature both hot and cold hells. (The Encyclopedia Americana, 1977, Vol. 14, p. 68) Depictions of hell portrayed in Catholic churches in Italy have been traced to Etruscan roots.—La civiltà etrusca (Milan, 1979), Werner Keller, p. 389.

But the real roots of this God-dishonoring doctrine go much deeper. The fiendish concepts associated with a hell of torment slander God and originate with the chief slanderer of God (the Devil, which name means “Slanderer”), the one whom Jesus Christ called “the father of the lie.”—John 8:44.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989234#h=40:0-40:723

The early Christians did not believe in the hell doctrine...it was introduced in the 2nd century AD as a result of blending with Greek philosophy...

https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/death/origin-of-hell-fire.php#.W3CtnOhKjIU

Sheol/Hades/hell means the grave, nothing more...even wiki acknowledges that...

While these three terms are translated in the KJV as "hell" these three terms have three very different meanings.

Hades has similarities to the Old Testament term, Sheol as "the place of the dead" or "grave". Thus, it is used in reference to both the righteous and the wicked, since both wind up there eventually.[48]

Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnom", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation (such as people who committed suicide) were thrown there to be destroyed.[49] Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.[50]

Tartaróō (the verb "throw to Tartarus", used of the fall of the Titans in Illiad 14.296) occurs only once in the New Testament in II Peter 2:4, where it is parallel to the use of the noun form in 1 Enoch as the place of incarceration of the fallen angels. It mentions nothing about human souls being sent there in the afterlife.
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

It is just that a parable...an illustration with figurative meaning.
I love to how people pick and choose what's figurative and what's literal it's almost like they do it on the basis of their own opinion.

This is what I call a cafeteria Christian.
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

I love to how people pick and choose what's figurative and what's literal it's almost like they do it on the basis of their own opinion.

This is what I call a cafeteria Christian.

Call it what you like but you would be wrong, as you usually are...look up the definition of parable...and I already explained why it cannot be taken literally...
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

They are dead...out of existence...

Wrong. They are still in the hell they created for themselves.

You do these atheists an injustice, telling them what they want to hear when you say there is no hell.
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

And not the 1st scripture to support that...because there are none...

Hellfire has it origins in pagan beliefs...

In ancient Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs the “nether world . . . is pictured as a place full of horrors, and is presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” (The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, Boston, 1898, Morris Jastrow, Jr., p. 581) Early evidence of the fiery aspect of Christendom’s hell is found in the religion of ancient Egypt. (The Book of the Dead, New Hyde Park, N.Y., 1960, with introduction by E. A. Wallis Budge, pp. 144, 149, 151, 153, 161) Buddhism, which dates back to the 6th century B.C.E., in time came to feature both hot and cold hells. (The Encyclopedia Americana, 1977, Vol. 14, p. 68) Depictions of hell portrayed in Catholic churches in Italy have been traced to Etruscan roots.—La civiltà etrusca (Milan, 1979), Werner Keller, p. 389.

But the real roots of this God-dishonoring doctrine go much deeper. The fiendish concepts associated with a hell of torment slander God and originate with the chief slanderer of God (the Devil, which name means “Slanderer”), the one whom Jesus Christ called “the father of the lie.”—John 8:44.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989234#h=40:0-40:723

The early Christians did not believe in the hell doctrine...it was introduced in the 2nd century AD as a result of blending with Greek philosophy...

https://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/death/origin-of-hell-fire.php#.W3CtnOhKjIU

Sheol/Hades/hell means the grave, nothing more...even wiki acknowledges that...

While these three terms are translated in the KJV as "hell" these three terms have three very different meanings.

Hades has similarities to the Old Testament term, Sheol as "the place of the dead" or "grave". Thus, it is used in reference to both the righteous and the wicked, since both wind up there eventually.[48]

Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnom", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation (such as people who committed suicide) were thrown there to be destroyed.[49] Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.[50]

Tartaróō (the verb "throw to Tartarus", used of the fall of the Titans in Illiad 14.296) occurs only once in the New Testament in II Peter 2:4, where it is parallel to the use of the noun form in 1 Enoch as the place of incarceration of the fallen angels. It mentions nothing about human souls being sent there in the afterlife.

You have given nothing out of the Bible to prove your claims.
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

Wrong. They are still in the hell they created for themselves.

You do these atheists an injustice, telling them what they want to hear when you say there is no hell.

Jehovah does not want anyone to serve Him out of fear...He wants us to serve Him because we love Him...if anyone serves Him out of fear or because of what they can get from Him, they are wasting their time...that was the issue Satan raised with Job and Job proved Satan wrong because of his love and integrity to Jehovah...
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

You have given nothing out of the Bible to prove your claims.

With the parable, I most certainly did, you did not...my claims in this post are backed by history/facts...read up on it...
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

Call it what you like but you would be wrong, as you usually are...look up the definition of parable...and I already explained why it cannot be taken literally...

The entire bible is written in parables. But I'm willing to berry it isn't all figurative.

It can't be taken lethargy because you didn't want it to be.

I'm very farmiliar with cafeteria Christians.
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

The entire bible is written in parables. But I'm willing to berry it isn't all figurative.

No, it is not, I told you to look it up...Jesus told parables...:roll:

par·a·ble
ˈperəb(ə)l/Submit
noun
a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels.
synonyms: allegory, moral story/tale, fable, exemplum
"the parable of the prodigal son"

https://www.google.com/search?q=par...0.69i59j0l5.2855j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

As in burning forever...what did the plagues bring...death, nothing more...

no eternal torture thats different and boils and famine and swarms of pests is tirturis it was the last plague where god murdered the innocent yes you complain when others people sacrifice children even though the jews of the bible murdered every child they would not go on to rape in at least 1 town along with non virgin women and grown men
 
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Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

Jehovah does not want anyone to serve Him out of fear...He wants us to serve Him because we love Him...if anyone serves Him out of fear or because of what they can get from Him, they are wasting their time...that was the issue Satan raised with Job and Job proved Satan wrong because of his love and integrity to Jehovah...

its hard to love a murderer who keeps you as a slave or kills you

your god loves itself not you
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

I don't hate or fear them...I respect what the Bible says...the act is wrong in God's eyes...

you just don't care about them or any one else you want everyone who wont love your god to die so you can be happy either because deep down your afraid of your god killing you as well or because you genuinely love the idea of serving a tyrant who will murder any that wont obey it
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

With the parable, I most certainly did, you did not...my claims in this post are backed by history/facts...read up on it...

I HAVE read upon it, you have told me nothing I didn't already know. It means nothing. Not only is it irrelevant to the question at hand but it defies exegetical principles and common sense.
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

I HAVE read upon it, you have told me nothing I didn't already know. It means nothing. Not only is it irrelevant to the question at hand but it defies exegetical principles and common sense.

Now I gave you scriptural evidence and there's more where that came from. I've never even heard of these people whose web pages you have posted.
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

And not the 1st scripture to support that...because there are none...

Tell me something, do you actually read the Bible or do you just read what the JW website says about it?

Matt 13:47 -

“Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 25:41 -

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Mark 9:43 -

43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

2 Thess 1:7 -

This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord


Jude 1:7 -

In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

(It strikes me that eternal fire is kinda pointless if you're already dead.)

And the list goes on and on.

Now, don't be Gish galloping into another list of words and phrases I didn't even mention. Just deal with the scriptures you said didn't exist, or I can parse them for you if you like.
 
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Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

Jehovah does not want anyone to serve Him out of fear...He wants us to serve Him because we love Him...if anyone serves Him out of fear or because of what they can get from Him, they are wasting their time...that was the issue Satan raised with Job and Job proved Satan wrong because of his love and integrity to Jehovah...

He also loves justice, and with justice comes consequences for the lawless ones. BUT, He also freely offers forgiveness for those who ask, there is no reason for anyone to be separated from God unless it is their own choice.
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

He also loves justice, and with justice comes consequences for the lawless ones. BUT, He also freely offers forgiveness for those who ask, there is no reason for anyone to be separated from God unless it is their own choice.

ya murder and torture endlessly dosent seem just if god wold show up and not e such a petty vicious **** id want to be around him more

like you guys love something out of lovecraft
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

ya murder and torture endlessly dosent seem just if god wold show up and not e such a petty vicious **** id want to be around him more

like you guys love something out of lovecraft

You know, punctuation is your friend.
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

Moderator's Warning:
Okay, this thread is meant to be about God and gays, not about the existence or otherwise of Hell. Get back to the topic in hand. If we remain in this thread-jacking mode we may have to move the thread and or issue consequences to those who cannot stick to the topic.
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

I HAVE read upon it, you have told me nothing I didn't already know. It means nothing. Not only is it irrelevant to the question at hand but it defies exegetical principles and common sense.

No, what defies exegetical principles ad common sense is believing in a god, who's most dominant quality is love, would/could torture any one of His creation with burning forever and and ever, no matter how evil that creation becomes...maybe your god does but not my God, the true God, Jehovah...He would never consider such a cruelty...and yes, I used lower case g for a reason...
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

Tell me something, do you actually read the Bible or do you just read what the JW website says about it?

Matt 13:47 -

“Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 25:41 -

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Mark 9:43 -

43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

2 Thess 1:7 -

This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord


Jude 1:7 -

In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

(It strikes me that eternal fire is kinda pointless if you're already dead.)

And the list goes on and on.

Now, don't be Gish galloping into another list of words and phrases I didn't even mention. Just deal with the scriptures you said didn't exist, or I can parse them for you if you like.

Do you just gloss over the word destruction in order to satisfy your own selfish desire to see someone suffer?

de·struc·tion
dəˈstrəkSH(ə)n/Submit
noun
the action or process of causing so much damage to something that it no longer exists or cannot be repaired.
"the destruction of the library in Alexandria"
synonyms: demolition, wrecking, ruination, blasting, bombing; More
the action or process of killing or being killed.
"the wanton destruction of human life"
synonyms: annihilation, obliteration, elimination, eradication, liquidation; More
a cause of someone's ruin.
"gambling was his destruction"

https://www.google.com/search?q=des...3.69i57j0l5.7643j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Fire/eternal fire is used in the Bible, yes...because it represents complete and utter destruction, such as the lake of fire, the 2nd death...the only torture going on is eternal separation from life and the Creator...
 
Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

He also loves justice, and with justice comes consequences for the lawless ones. BUT, He also freely offers forgiveness for those who ask, there is no reason for anyone to be separated from God unless it is their own choice.

Do you actually think about what you say before you say it? SMH...
 
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