Thoughts on God and Gays! [W: 472]

[blarg]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

Well...if all everyone did was have sex with same sex, we would die out in about 50 years. Isn't that proof enough? God calls it "un natural", I can see why. Mankind wouldn't last more than one generation living the "un natural" way. Doing as God intended keeps us going.

not with a god it can just make people out of dirt and i dont have kids but i dont hear you saying that hurts your god or infertile couples hurt your god

not only is something not reproducing natural its shaped all life as we know it

so no that's not proof or a reasonable justification of your god or for its actions

 

[blarg]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

See Adam and Eve and the Fall. :roll:

i have it dosent support perfection the 1st pair of humans chose sin and then god designed their kids to be even more susceptible to it and its worse with elvira her version of jesus is a created being separate from god that was made to never sin

just skip down to 10

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/who-is-jesus-christ/

 

[blarg]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

Homosexuality is sometimes defended because its practitioners don't have a choice. I can not 'choose' to be turned on by another 46 year old male.

Likewise, I can not 'choose' to be turned on sexually by a 3 year old boy. Lack of choice can't be used to defend one and not the other.

Therefore, homosexuality needs to be defended on the merits (consent / freedom of sexuality), which puts it in the same logical field as adult incest.

true but saying its a choice just because you don't like it as many do still seems bad

and its not any harder to defend homosexility either way peoel of the same sex haivng sex ha snot harmed me or any one purely because couples are the same sex

 

[blarg]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

Thank you. I think that among the various sects of Christianity this is a minority view. But it makes sense to me, as much as anything in Christianity does, Apparently, it made sense to the first Christians too.

I've always thought the whole eternal torture and damnation thing was cooked up to keep the plebes in line after Christianity became a political force more concerned with earthly power than salvation.

i see the threat of death as being much the same regardless of the age of that threat

the idea that you need salvation and only have so much time to get it serves to gather earthly power

 

[Daisy]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

i see the threat of death as being much the same regardless of the age of that threat

the idea that you need salvation and only have so much time to get it serves to gather earthly power

So you prefer Satan, who has power now?

 

[blarg]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

So you prefer Satan, who has power now?

dosent seem to exist

might like him better as a character if he's willing to let people live in peace without murdering everyone that dosent think hes a swell guy

but you and the god you have seemingly made up have set that bar very low

you litelry need me to be dead forever to be happy its hard to get worse then that

oh and avoiding to your faith and so you there's nothing good about me because i won't follow it

and you believe that to please yourself

low bars very low bars

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

I have heard so often that God hates Gays from the religious right. My thought is this, God made people Gay. No matter what people tell you it is not a choice. If it was, no one would be gay. So if God made people gay, and if God does not make mistakes, then how can God hate someone who is as God made him or her. Only if you think God can make mistakes, and so many of them, can you believe God hates Gay people. And if God made Gays the way they are, how can you as a religious person hate someone God made Gay.

People create god. The people that created god hated gays, thus their god hates gays. It's that simple.

 

[jwzg]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

People create god. The people that created god hated gays, thus their god hates gays. It's that simple.

Your opinion is noted.

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk

 

[blarg]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

Your opinion is noted.

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk

getting the gods opinion would be better but they never answer

hey any and all gods did people make you or did you make them?

...........................................................................................


that's the reply you normally get

 

[it's just me]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

I have heard so often that God hates Gays from the religious right. My thought is this, God made people Gay. No matter what people tell you it is not a choice. If it was, no one would be gay. So if God made people gay, and if God does not make mistakes, then how can God hate someone who is as God made him or her. Only if you think God can make mistakes, and so many of them, can you believe God hates Gay people. And if God made Gays the way they are, how can you as a religious person hate someone God made Gay.

You started with a false assumption then piled on a bunch more false assumptions, but you want to blame someone else for your false assumptions. Am I right?

 

[it's just me]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

Correct...

So we have nothing to lose, then, do we? We know we are going to die anyway and if all I'm going to do is go to the grave afterward that is the point at which I cease to care. Your beliefs are, ultimately, not much different from what atheists believe. The rest is window dressing. Prove me wrong, if you can.

 

[Daisy]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

So we have nothing to lose, then, do we? We know we are going to die anyway and if all I'm going to do is go to the grave afterward that is the point at which I cease to care. Your beliefs are, ultimately, not much different from what atheists believe. The rest is window dressing. Prove me wrong, if you can.

I will not argue with you...if you truly want to know, go to JW.org and read for yourself why I believe as I do...if not, then yes, it your loss...lifer everlasting...

 

[it's just me]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

I will not argue with you...if you truly want to know, go to JW.org and read for yourself why I believe as I do...if not, then yes, it your loss...lifer everlasting...

No argument, It's a simple question, I have nothing to lose, if you and the atheists are right I'll go to the grave and that will be the end of it. I don't need to go read a JW website, I did that years ago. I want YOU to think about the ramifications of what YOU believe and be able to explain it. Think hard. Are you saying that it makes no difference what I believe because I will just go to the grave in the end? Is that really what you want to tell everybody else?

 

[Daisy]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

No argument, It's a simple question, I have nothing to lose, if you and the atheists are right I'll go to the grave and that will be the end of it. I don't need to go read a JW website, I did that years ago. I want YOU to think about the ramifications of what YOU believe and be able to explain it. Think hard. Are you saying that it makes no difference what I believe because I will just go to the grave in the end? Is that really what you want to tell everybody else?

Yes, because that is the truth of what the Bible teaches...there are many scriptures to support that truth...

"These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength." 2 Thess. 1:9

No warning of burning in hell throughout eternity but "you will die"...

"Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” Gen. 2:16,17

"That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned" Rom. 5:12

"In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” Gen 3:19

"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten....Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going." Eccl. 9:5,10

"The dead do not praise Jah;
Nor do any who go down into the silence of death." Psalm 115:17

"His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground;
On that very day his thoughts perish." Psalm 146:4

Job prayed to go to hell/sheol or the grave...

"O that in the Grave you would conceal me,
That you would hide me until your anger passes by,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!" Job 14:13

Jesus was in hell/hades or the grave...

"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption." Act 2:31

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

Yes, because that is the truth of what the Bible teaches...there are many scriptures to support that truth...

"These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength." 2 Thess. 1:9

No warning of burning in hell throughout eternity but "you will die"...

"Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” Gen. 2:16,17

"That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned" Rom. 5:12

"In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” Gen 3:19

"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten....Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going." Eccl. 9:5,10

"The dead do not praise Jah;
Nor do any who go down into the silence of death." Psalm 115:17

"His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground;
On that very day his thoughts perish." Psalm 146:4

Job prayed to go to hell/sheol or the grave...

"O that in the Grave you would conceal me,
That you would hide me until your anger passes by,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!" Job 14:13

Jesus was in hell/hades or the grave...

"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption." Act 2:31

Honestly, I'm fine with that.

Now, I also have talked to Mormons who believe that basically everyone can go to a certain level of Heaven, and you can move higher by listening to what the teachers there have to say about Jesus and God and accepting him. But you simply can't get to the higher levels without having accepted Jesus (and really the teachings of Joseph Smith) on Earth. Even if you do that, the highest levels of Heaven are reserved just for the best Mormons, who were Mormons from birth and basically elders within the church. Not sure if this is what all Mormons believe, only what the ones who lived in my apartment building in Hawaii believed. They were young missionaries.

 

[Daisy]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

Honestly, I'm fine with that.

Now, I also have talked to Mormons who believe that basically everyone can go to a certain level of Heaven, and you can move higher by listening to what the teachers there have to say about Jesus and God and accepting him. But you simply can't get to the higher levels without having accepted Jesus (and really the teachings of Joseph Smith) on Earth. Even if you do that, the highest levels of Heaven are reserved just for the best Mormons, who were Mormons from birth and basically elders within the church. Not sure if this is what all Mormons believe, only what the ones who lived in my apartment building in Hawaii believed. They were young missionaries.

As humans we would not even think of torturing someone we love, least of all our own children, and yet some denominations believe Jehovah would do such a thing to us...many ancient nations that did not serve Jehovah practiced child sacrifice, but Jehovah said that this was some thin ‘that he had not commanded and that had not come up into his heart.’

They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’" Jeremiah 7:31

 

[it's just me]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

Yes, because that is the truth of what the Bible teaches...there are many scriptures to support that truth...

"These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength." 2 Thess. 1:9

No warning of burning in hell throughout eternity but "you will die"...

"Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” Gen. 2:16,17

"That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned" Rom. 5:12

"In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” Gen 3:19

"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten....Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going." Eccl. 9:5,10

"The dead do not praise Jah;
Nor do any who go down into the silence of death." Psalm 115:17

"His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground;
On that very day his thoughts perish." Psalm 146:4

Job prayed to go to hell/sheol or the grave...

"O that in the Grave you would conceal me,
That you would hide me until your anger passes by,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!" Job 14:13

Jesus was in hell/hades or the grave...

"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption." Act 2:31

What is the meaning of this parable?

"“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’"

 

[it's just me]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

As humans we would not even think of torturing someone we love, least of all our own children, and yet some denominations believe Jehovah would do such a thing to us...many ancient nations that did not serve Jehovah practiced child sacrifice, but Jehovah said that this was some thin ‘that he had not commanded and that had not come up into his heart.’

They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’" Jeremiah 7:31

Except humans DO torture their own children.

You're saying there is no justice for the Hitlers and the Pol Pots and the Stalins and the murderers of and torturers of THEIR own children. They just go to the grave, like everybody else. Is that about right?

 

[it's just me]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

Honestly, I'm fine with that.

Now, I also have talked to Mormons who believe that basically everyone can go to a certain level of Heaven, and you can move higher by listening to what the teachers there have to say about Jesus and God and accepting him. But you simply can't get to the higher levels without having accepted Jesus (and really the teachings of Joseph Smith) on Earth. Even if you do that, the highest levels of Heaven are reserved just for the best Mormons, who were Mormons from birth and basically elders within the church. Not sure if this is what all Mormons believe, only what the ones who lived in my apartment building in Hawaii believed. They were young missionaries.

I guess God must be a respecter of persons after all....

 

[Daisy]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

What is the meaning of this parable?

"“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have
pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’"

It is just that a parable...an illustration with figurative meaning...the “rich man” represented the proud Pharisees...Luke 16:14...the beggar, Lazarus represented the common Jewish people who were despised by the Pharisees and spiritually starved, but who repented and became followers of Jesus....Luke 18:11; John 7:49; Matthew 21:31, 32...their deaths were also symbolic, representing a change in circumstances...the formerly despised ones, as Lazarus represented, came into a position of divine favor, and the formerly seemingly favored ones, as the rich man represented, were rejected by God, while being tormented by the judgment messages delivered by the ones whom they had despised....Acts 5:33; 7:54...

If taken literally, it would mean that those enjoying divine favor could all fit at the bosom of one man, Abraham...that the water on one’s fingertip would not be evaporated by the fire of Hades...that a mere drop of water would bring relief to one suffering there...does that sound reasonable to you?

Also, it it were literal, it would conflict with other parts of the Bible, such as scriptures I cited earlier...if the Bible were contradictory, would a lover of truth use it as a basis for his faith? I think not, because the Bible does not contradict itself...

 

[Daisy]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

Except humans DO torture their own children.

You're saying there is no justice for the Hitlers and the Pol Pots and the Stalins and the murderers of and torturers of THEIR own children. They just go to the grave, like everybody else. Is that about right?

God does not approve of torture, that is a fact...

 

[blarg]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

As humans we would not even think of torturing someone we love, least of all our own children, and yet some denominations believe Jehovah would do such a thing to us...many ancient nations that did not serve Jehovah practiced child sacrifice, but Jehovah said that this was some thin ‘that he had not commanded and that had not come up into his heart.’

They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’" Jeremiah 7:31

you only draw the line at murder because the existence of people who don't share your opinion that your god is good would be torture to you apparently oh such love

 

[blarg]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

God does not approve of torture, that is a fact...

other then the plagues of egypt?

 

[Daisy]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

other then the plagues of egypt?

As in burning forever...what did the plagues bring...death, nothing more...

 

[it's just me]

Re: Thoughts on God and Gays!

It is just that a parable...an illustration with figurative meaning...the “rich man” represented the proud Pharisees...Luke 16:14...the beggar, Lazarus represented the common Jewish people who were despised by the Pharisees and spiritually starved, but who repented and became followers of Jesus....Luke 18:11; John 7:49; Matthew 21:31, 32...their deaths were also symbolic, representing a change in circumstances...the formerly despised ones, as Lazarus represented, came into a position of divine favor, and the formerly seemingly favored ones, as the rich man represented, were rejected by God, while being tormented by the judgment messages delivered by the ones whom they had despised....Acts 5:33; 7:54...

If taken literally, it would mean that those enjoying divine favor could all fit at the bosom of one man, Abraham...that the water on one’s fingertip would not be evaporated by the fire of Hades...that a mere drop of water would bring relief to one suffering there...does that sound reasonable to you?

Also, it it were literal, it would conflict with other parts of the Bible, such as scriptures I cited earlier...if the Bible were contradictory, would a lover of truth use it as a basis for his faith? I think not, because the Bible does not contradict itself...

Actually, the "rich man" represented the unrepentant sinner with no need of a savior in this life and the poor man represented the man without remedy apart from a savior. They both died. Both of their souls were separated from their bodies. The Greek word used here for hell is is hades, and it means the same thing every place it is used, realm of the dead, BUT, the word básanos, which is also used, means the same thing every time it is used: torment, disease, pains in hell. I don't know if hades is really a place of fire, but I do believe this: God will not force people who want nothing to do with Him in this life into His presence in the next life. In the parable the rich man sees Lazarus from a distance and even says there is a gulf fixed between them so that you can't pass from one place to the other. If you are separated from God there is no way to get back to Him even if it isn't fiery torture separation from God will surely seem that way, and the pain that you feel will be like fire in the belly knowing that it didn't have to be this way and you chose your own fate. Now that's hell.

And like I said before, God's own creation - us - we do torture and murder our own children, we do rob, steal, kill, some of us murder hundreds, thousands, millions. The lives those people have taken have taken a toll that once they have waited until it's too late they will not get out until they have paid the last penny. And they can't.