Thomas Sowell on the Problems for Blacks Created by the White Liberal Agenda.

[katzgar]

Hey, I thought only white people could be racist! Isn't that the current ideology of progressive-left victimhood? (sarcasm).

Not much of a surprise but you're not making sense

 

[joG]

Encouraging folks to view themselves as victims, and to blame their failures on that, has proven to be a bad idea just as so many said it was.

The challenge will be to change it. Folks hate it to the point of violence, when one reduces their allowances and makes them perform at school or work.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

family matters

Of course it does. We all don't start with the same opportunities and abilities.

It shouldn't be that way. We need to go back to teaching people equality of opportunity based on personal skills, intelligence and effort...equality of opportunity not equality of outcome.

By no stretch of the imagination can you pretend that someone raised by an uneducated single parent working two jobs, in a dirt poor neighborhood, going to a drop-out factory k-12 education has the same opportunity as everyone else. Equal opportunity is a myth and is incompatible with nature and the structure of our society.

I was raised by two successful, upper-middle class parents, went to one of the best school districts in Texas, joined the Army for 7 years, got the GI Bill, and went to a top engineering college. It would be insanely disingenuous for me to look back at everything now and pretend that everyone else had the same opportunities as me.

The right to demand pay from those with "too much" simply because one has "too little" is an absurd "right" regardless of race. BTW, many more white folks ride the gravy train than black folks despite their alleged "white privilege". Making the "safety net" out to be some kind of reparations program is pure BS - it is simply a reward for personal economic, social and educational failure for those that need an excuse for their present situation.

Any attempt to impose a lifetime limit on this "temporary" assistance is deemed cruel and unusual punishment. Why not replace all "safety net" assistance (except to the elderly and disabled) with a one time payment of $75K - made available to any and all US citizens? That is the equivalent of saving 100% of 5 years wages at a full-time MW job - a feat not many can manage on their own but that have somehow managed to survive and obtain the (elusive?) ability to support themselves and their dependents. Poverty is not a black thing and working to support oneself is not a white thing. The cost of such a program is about the same as "free" college for all - let's try it and stop crying about how mean it is to not keep folks on the dole.

This isn't a ban all welfare thread. If you think welfare itself is what's holding back blacks in America make the case for it. On that topic though, due to the ever increasing rate of automation and worker productivity, I see no other choice but for a guaranteed basic income. You won't agree, but as I said this isn't really the thread for it.

 

[devildavid]

Thomas Sowell is wrong.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The challenge will be to change it. Folks hate it to the point of violence, when one reduces their allowances and makes them perform at school or work.

It is the stepping stone to a BIG - which many seem to think is the best way to go.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Thomas Sowell is wrong.

Well, I guess that settles the matter.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Of course it does. We all don't start with the same opportunities and abilities.

By no stretch of the imagination can you pretend that someone raised by an uneducated single parent working two jobs, in a dirt poor neighborhood, going to a drop-out factory k-12 education has the same opportunity as everyone else. Equal opportunity is a myth and is incompatible with nature and the structure of our society.

I was raised by two successful, upper-middle class parents, went to one of the best school districts in Texas, joined the Army for 7 years, got the GI Bill, and went to a top engineering college. It would be insanely disingenuous for me to look back at everything now and pretend that everyone else had the same opportunities as me.

Oh cut me a break. :roll:

Yes my paternal grand-dad was personally successful despite his racial heritage posing a roadblock. But he abandoned my paternal grandmother leaving her to eek out an existence earning wages as a garment worker with three children living in a New York tenement. She raised them and also me whenever my dad was stationed overseas.

I went to public schools like any other ghetto kid, and I worked my ass off to get good grades and do better because that's what they taught me. I wasn't the only kid in my neighborhood (either in New York or Los Angeles) raised with those ideals either. Nor was I the only person who made a go of it despite system roadblocks. After the Civil Rights Act, and Affirmative Action there is simply no excuse for anyone not to make it if they tried.

I didn't need your approval or sympathy, and no one in our society should. My heroes were the members of my community like Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, and even the Black Panther Party who said we can achieve on our own merit and by the color of our character.

IMO your coddling viewpoint does nothing but encourage victimhood in the Black community.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Oh cut me a break. :roll:
Yes my paternal grand-dad was personally successful despite his racial heritage posing a roadblock. But he abandoned my paternal grandmother leaving her to eek out an existence earning wages as a garment worker with three children living in a New York tenement. She raised them and also me whenever my dad was stationed overseas.
I went to public schools like any other ghetto kid, and I worked my ass off to get good grades and do better because that's what they taught me. I wasn't the only kid in my neighborhood (either in New York or Los Angeles) raised with those ideals either. I was not the only member of a minority who made it in the system too. I didn't need your approval or sympathy, and no one in our society should. Mt heroes were the members of my community like Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, and even the Black Panther Party who said we can achieve on our own merit and by the color of our character.
IMO your coddling viewpoint does nothing but encourage victimhood in the Black community.

Yet you're unable to answer anything I actually pointed out. How does everyone in America have equal opportunity, especially when the quality of schools varies wildly, especially among racial lines? Are you under the impression that education is irrelevant in the 2017 job market and if they just worked as hard as you they could all be successful lawyers? You're down-playing the opportunities you had as if you did it all by yourself in a vacuum.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Yet you're unable to answer anything I actually pointed out. How does everyone in America have equal opportunity, especially when the quality of schools varies wildly, especially among racial lines? Are you under the impression that education is irrelevant in the 2017 job market and if they just worked as hard as you they could all be successful lawyers? You're down-playing the opportunities you had as if you did it all by yourself in a vacuum.

I did answer your silly question. The resources ARE THERE if people elect to use them. The problem is, many members of the Black community HAVE succumbed to exactly what Mr. Sowell was addressing in the video (which you apparently did not view).

The answer is to look at the successes of those who don't let that system of victimhood entitlements stop them from personal advancement. Not everything is racism, often it is just an acceptance of institutionalized victimhood indoctrination leading to a lack of drive, an unwillingness to adapt to "white" (read middle America) attitudes, or the idea that following the gangsta life is the fastest way to wealth (even if it leads to periods of incarceration).

 

[RabidAlpaca]

I did answer your silly question. The resources ARE THERE if people elect to use them. The problem is, many members of the Black community HAVE succumbed to exactly what Mr. Sowell was addressing in the video (which you apparently did not view).

The answer is to look at the successes of those who don't let that system of victimhood entitlements stop them from personal advancement. Not everything is racism, often it is just an acceptance of institutionalized victimhood indoctrination leading to a lack of drive or the idea that following the gangsta life is the fastest way to wealth (even if it leads to periods of incarceration).

Ok, so poor black kids in dead end schools should just utilize all those "resources that are there" and give themselves an education, like you did. :applaud You must be very proud of yourself for pulling yourself up by your bootstraps like that.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Ok, so poor black kids in dead end schools should just utilize all those "resources that are there" and give themselves an education, like you did. :applaud You must be very proud of yourself for pulling yourself up by your bootstraps like that.

Have you gone to any of these "dead end schools?" Or are you just repeating talking points you learned during your liberal education?

Yes, some of the schools aren't up to snuff. However, it's not always because the resources aren't there, or the teachers don't want to teach, or whatever other problem you'd like to cite. It's as often an uphill battle to try to keep the kids in school, and if in school...to learn. I know, because for a few years after I left the Army while working on my graduate degree's I tried my hand at teaching. BTW, this is not just a racial thing, as white kids can be just as learning-averse as some others.

Sorry pal, while we might all agree that your heart is in the right place (somewhat), IMO your head is located...deeply in that SJW mire despite your Libertarian lean. :shrug:

 

[Port & Starboard]

I brought this up in another thread. Funny how EVERY problem in this country is the 'liberals' fault. You Cons got to turn the AM radio OFF. BTW I don't know a single 'liberal' who condones and glorifies 'lawless thug life'.

Anyway I am old enough to remember what Black culture was like back in the 50's and 60's. And I also remember when I was down south signs on bathrooms that said 'Whites Only'. And signs in restaurants that said 'no colored allowed'. And reading about Blacks being made to sit in the back of the bus. And those things went on for 100+ years.

And even today I read stories about people referring to the previous 1st lady as an 'ape in heals'.

But of course none of that has anything to do with the problems of race in this country. No, it's all the 'liberals' fault.

And of course, you understand the problem much more than Thomas Sowell could ever have.

Maybe you should listen in to a few of his lectures.

 

[calamity]

And of course, you understand the problem much more than Thomas Sowell could ever have.

Maybe you should listen in to a few of his lectures.

Uncle Tom has become quite wealthy telling racists exactly what they want to hear.

 

[Port & Starboard]

Ok, so poor black kids in dead end schools should just utilize all those "resources that are there" and give themselves an education, like you did. :applaud You must be very proud of yourself for pulling yourself up by your bootstraps like that.

Those dead end schools as you call them, are more busy policing unruly punks than they are teaching.

 

[RickJames3000]

Have you gone to any of these "dead end schools?" Or are you just repeating talking points you learned during your liberal education?

Yes, some of the schools aren't up to snuff. However, it's not always because the resources aren't there, or the teachers don't want to teach, or whatever other problem you'd like to cite. It's as often an uphill battle to try to keep the kids in school, and if in school...to learn. I know, because for a few years after I left the Army while working on my graduate degree's I tried my hand at teaching. BTW, this is not just a racial thing, as white kids can be just as learning-averse as some others.

Sorry pal, while we might all agree that your heart is in the right place (somewhat), IMO your head is located...deeply in that SJW mire despite your Libertarian lean. :shrug:

Maybe poor black kids in the ghetto today can pull themselves out of their situation using your sanctimony.

 

[Port & Starboard]

Uncle Tom has become quite wealthy telling racists exactly what they want to hear.

If you are calling me a racist for listening to Thomas Sowell, then you then you need to grow up.

Mr. Sowell speaks on many issues other than race.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Ok, so poor black kids in dead end schools should just utilize all those "resources that are there" and give themselves an education, like you did. :applaud You must be very proud of yourself for pulling yourself up by your bootstraps like that.

Hmm... would those dead end schools be run by the state/local government? It seems that you want the federal government to bail out the state/local government rather than to hold them accountable for their failure. Why worry about providing crappy schools if that brings more "free" federal money into your state/city?

 

[calamity]

If you are calling me a racist for listening to Thomas Sowell, then you then you need to grow up.

Mr. Sowell speaks on many issues other than race.

No. I said, "Uncle Tom has become quite wealthy telling racists exactly what they want to hear."

 

[Captain Adverse]

Uncle Tom has become quite wealthy telling racists exactly what they want to hear.

You cannot be serious.

The use of "Uncle Tom" (among other internal epithets) is one of the reasons many Black kids avoid efforts to succeed within the system. It is "internal policing," a method of pressuring Black kids to remain "entitled," to prevent them from showing by example that those who failed have only themselves to blame.

Nice that you use it so freely. eh? :doh

 

[Port & Starboard]

No. I said, "Uncle Tom has become quite wealthy telling racists exactly what they want to hear."

With zero proof or credits to support your claim.

I supposes a few hundred thousand young blacks are all racists for enjoying and learning from his speeches and lectures.

The "Uncle Tom" as you describe him, is just more Calamity bait tossing

 

[Captain Adverse]

Maybe poor black kids in the ghetto today can pull themselves out of their situation using your sanctimony.

You mean following my (and many others) example, using all the advantages given after the 60's civil rights struggle rather than avoiding them?

Yeah, I'd say that most "poor black kids in the ghetto" can do exactly that. There really is nothing except Black Redneck culture truly holding them back. :shrug:

 

[Port & Starboard]

You cannot be serious.

The use of "Uncle Tom" (among other internal epithets) is one of the reasons many Black kids avoid efforts to succeed within the system. It is "internal policing," a method of pressuring Black kids to remain "entitled," to prevent them from showing by example that those who failed have only themselves to blame.

Nice that you use it so freely. eh? :doh

Disgusting.................. would be a better term to use to describe his words.

Only liberal blacks can have any credibility with some of the hypocrites on here.

 

[RickJames3000]

You mean following my (and many others) example, using all the advantages given after the 60's civil rights struggle rather than avoiding them?

Yeah, I'd say that most "poor black kids in the ghetto" can do exactly that. There really is nothing except Black Redneck culture truly holding them back. :shrug:

I am sure that many of those kids will be gratified by your lofty opinion of yourself.:coffeepap

 

[Captain Adverse]

I am sure that many of those kids will be gratified by your lofty opinion of yourself.:coffeepap

Better IMO than your evident low opinion of them.

How else to explain all the victimhood claims when there are all sorts of opportunities and systems in place to help them advance that Black Americans did not have before, yet STILL turned out people like Thurgood Marshall, Washington Carver, and Frederick Douglas to name a very, very few?

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Have you gone to any of these "dead end schools?" Or are you just repeating talking points you learned during your liberal education?

Yes, some of the schools aren't up to snuff. However, it's not always because the resources aren't there, or the teachers don't want to teach, or whatever other problem you'd like to cite. It's as often an uphill battle to try to keep the kids in school, and if in school...to learn. I know, because for a few years after I left the Army while working on my graduate degree's I tried my hand at teaching. BTW, this is not just a racial thing, as white kids can be just as learning-averse as some others.

Sorry pal, while we might all agree that your heart is in the right place (somewhat), IMO your head is located...deeply in that SJW mire despite your Libertarian lean. :shrug:

So we've come full circle. You've claimed everyone in America has equal opportunity and that black schools aren't statistically worse than white schools, blacks are just inherently lazy. I've said this before, but calamity is right, you really are an Uncle Tom for your race.

Hmm... would those dead end schools be run by the state/local government? It seems that you want the federal government to bail out the state/local government rather than to hold them accountable for their failure. Why worry about providing crappy schools if that brings more "free" federal money into your state/city?

Exactly how amazing do you think living on welfare is? You seem to think it's so amazing we should just ignore the abysmal state of our education system because why learn and get a job when you can live on luxurious welfare? I'm for an increase in education funding and bringing up all public schools to a higher standard so that we don't have wildly varying quality of education between two districts separated only by 2 km and skin color. Jobs in 2017 and beyond need an increasingly high level of education for workers to even be capable of doing their jobs. Republicans have systematically defunded and attacked education, because it's obviously a liberal brainwashing conspiracy, yet we still have people pretending everyone's on the same footing. By the way, if you had a point, it's probably the time to get to it.

Those dead end schools as you call them, are more busy policing unruly punks than they are teaching.

Of course, there are no bad schools, blacks are just "unruly punks" that don't want to learn things like nice, upstanding white people do. :roll: