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Thirty Years On, How Well Do Global Warming Predictions Stand Up?

Oh. But it seems pretty clear within our country that this is very much a Right-wing partisan push that began simply to oppose Obama and "the leftists." I mean, just look at this site. They are generally all right-wing, most of whom, are FOX News viewers. And Fox News expressly pushed the early idea that the entire thing was just a "liberal hoax." Then it turned into "so what, global warming happens." Now, it's just an exercise in ignoring the massive spike since the Industrial Age.



These two are interesting. I had to check them out. Whatever their personal political leans, they collaborated on a book, The Cold Sun. For whatever reason, the book attracted considerable interest in Germany. I can't imagine why specifically Germany. Anyway, numerous scientists criticized the book for its underlying assumptions to be either outdated or highly speculative.

- Shivav appears to be more interested in promoting his own personal hypothesis that solar and cosmic-rays, passing through the spiral arm of the Milky Way, have been the cause behind the major ice-ages over the past billion years. Fine, but he seems to think that any other factor detracts from his general hypothesis. I don't see why it would. If he is right, then it would only explain the history of climate change, not the massive spike since the Industrial Age.

- Svensmark is also interested in his own theory of Cosmoclimatology. He pushes, during the last 100 years, that cosmic rays became scarcer because unusually vigorous action by the Sun batted away many of them. Fewer cosmic rays meant fewer clouds, which means that cosmic rays "have more effect on the climate than man made CO2." But again, his hypothesis can be right. Though he doesn't explain why the vigorous action of the Sun over the last 100 years is unusual. I would point out that this period followed the emergence of the Industrial Age. Just a coincidence, Svensmark? It seems that he is pushing what the vast majority of scientists everywhere are pushing. He just seems to not want to acknowledge causality.

They both seem to be nervous that their own hypotheses won't be given credit if man made CO2 is a factor to today's climate change. I don't understand their skepticism.

The "right wing partisan push" has no more to do with climate skepticism than the silly mouthings of Al Gore have to do with so-called "consensus' science.

Svensmark:

[h=3]Increased ionization supports growth of aerosols into cloud ... - Nature[/h]https://www.nature.com › nature communications › articles
by H Svensmark - ‎2017 - ‎Cited by 3 - ‎Related articles
Dec 19, 2017 - Article | Open | Published: 19 December 2017 ... H. Svensmark ORCID: orcid.org/0000-0003-2843-3417 ,; M. B. Enghoff ORCID: ... Clouds are a fundamental part of the terrestrial energy budget, and any process that can ... To form a cloud droplet, water vapor needs to condense to aerosols acting as cloud ...


Shaviv:

Climate debate at the Cambridge Union - a 10 minute summary of the main problems with the standard alarmist polemic
 
They both seem to be nervous that their own hypotheses won't be given credit if man made CO2 is a factor to today's climate change. I don't understand their skepticism.

The product of Shaviv's time at the Institute for Advanced Study:

[h=3]How Might Climate be Influenced by Cosmic Rays? | Institute for ...[/h]https://www.ias.edu/ideas/2015/shaviv-milky-way



Nir Shaviv. Our galactic journey imprinted in the climate—when Earth's temperature (red dots warm, blue dots cold) is plotted as a function of time (vertical axis) ...
 
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They both seem to be nervous that their own hypotheses won't be given credit if man made CO2 is a factor to today's climate change. I don't understand their skepticism.

Svensmark earlier:

[h=3]Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society - Wiley Online Library[/h]https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2966.2012.20953.x



by H Svensmark - ‎2012 - ‎Cited by 39 - ‎Related articles
Apr 24, 2012 - Henrik Svensmark ... system has experienced many large short‐term increases in the flux of Galactic cosmic rays (GCR) from nearby SNe.Missing: jackpot ‎| ‎Must include: ‎jackpot

[h=3]3b) The Svensmark Hypothesis | Calder's Updates[/h]https://calderup.wordpress.com/category/3b-the-svensmark-hypothesis/



Apr 24, 2012 - Svensmark's Cosmic Jackpot ... Today the Royal Astronomical Society in London publishes (online) Henrik Svensmark's latest paper entitled ...


 
The "right wing partisan push" has no more to do with climate skepticism than the silly mouthings of Al Gore have to do with so-called "consensus' science.

Svensmark:

[h=3]Increased ionization supports growth of aerosols into cloud ... - Nature[/h]https://www.nature.com › nature communications › articles
by H Svensmark - ‎2017 - ‎Cited by 3 - ‎Related articles
Dec 19, 2017 - Article | Open | Published: 19 December 2017 ... H. Svensmark ORCID: orcid.org/0000-0003-2843-3417 ,; M. B. Enghoff ORCID: ... Clouds are a fundamental part of the terrestrial energy budget, and any process that can ... To form a cloud droplet, water vapor needs to condense to aerosols acting as cloud ...


Shaviv:

Climate debate at the Cambridge Union - a 10 minute summary of the main problems with the standard alarmist polemic

Greetings, Jack. :2wave:

Great article! :thumbs: I always enjoy reading anything Svensmark and Shaviv have to say, and Shaviv's blog that I just read was both interesting and informative, without the snarkiness that so many other climate scientists seem to employ! Are they that self-centered that they really believe only they are correct, or has it become a "duel to the death" now since most of their predictions haven't happened? One day they may indeed prove their theories were correct, but today is not that day - for anyone involved! Available money is probably the reason for continuing, and I understand that, but how much longer is that going to matter? And what explanation will be given when it starts getting colder instead of warmer! :argue:
 
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Greetings, Jack. :2wave:

Great article! :thumbs: I always enjoy reading anything Svensmark and Shaviv have to say, and Shaviv's blog that I just read was both interesting and informative, without the snarkiness that so many other climate scientists seem to employ! Are they that self-centered that they really believe only they are correct, or has it become a "duel to the death" now since most of their predictions haven't happened? One day they may indeed prove their theories were correct, but today is not that day - for anyone involved! Available money is probably the reason for continuing, and I understand that, but how much longer is that going to matter? Whatever..... :argue:

Can I interest you in a potential position as Dr Mengele’s assistant?

He’s a very smart man, and very polite.
 
Can I interest you in a potential position as Dr Mengele’s assistant?

He’s a very smart man, and very polite.

Greetings, Threegoofs. :2wave:

A Nazi doctor who experimented on helpless humans, including children, without using anesthesia? Definitely not since I consider him a monster in human form! As I have posted previously on here, my grandfather gave me his complete collection of Readers Digest Magazines from that time period since he knew I was interested in history. Horrifying reading! Is that what you think of me? :shock:

BTW, was climate change a part-time interest of his?
 
Greetings, Threegoofs. :2wave:

A Nazi doctor who experimented on helpless humans, including children, without using anesthesia? Definitely not since I consider him a monster in human form! As I have posted previously on here, my grandfather gave me his complete collection of Readers Digest Magazines from that time period since he knew I was interested in history. Horrifying reading! Is that what you think of me? :shock:

BTW, was climate change a part-time interest of his?

My point is that you seem to have a profound susceptibility to propaganda.
 
Greetings, Jack. :2wave:

Great article! :thumbs: I always enjoy reading anything Svensmark and Shaviv have to say, and Shaviv's blog that I just read was both interesting and informative, without the snarkiness that so many other climate scientists seem to employ! Are they that self-centered that they really believe only they are correct, or has it become a "duel to the death" now since most of their predictions haven't happened? One day they may indeed prove their theories were correct, but today is not that day - for anyone involved! Available money is probably the reason for continuing, and I understand that, but how much longer is that going to matter? And what explanation will be given when it starts getting colder instead of warmer! :argue:

Greetings, Polgara.:2wave:

We shall see. Pay no attention to the small man in the raincoat.
 
Er...according to science, "average global temperature in modern times is measured
Science is not data. It is not a measurement. It is not an instrument. Science is a set of falsifiable theories. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. This is a math issue, not a scientific one.
through special thermometers aboard ships, buoys and a number of weather stations functioning all over the world."
Okay...first question. How many thermometers are used to measure the temperature of the Earth?
I got this from a website called Science ABC. Aptly named, huh?
Nope. Science is a set of falsifiable theories. ABC News does not define science. Philosophy does, and also gives the reasoning for that definition.
The site also gives other common sense examples of what scientists use to measure the temperature of the Earth.
It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. You must first know how many thermometers are used.
Rather the denial is politically motivated. Funny how this "hoax" also came out of the same indoctrination as Kenyan-born Obama and tomato-paste vegetable. And it is quite revealing when it is always the "conservatives" who deny it. The more "very" conservative one gets, the greater the denial.
Nope. The denial of the Church of Global Warming is based on math and science. The Church of Global Warming denies both.
From acknowledging and fixing the hole in the ozone layer
The ozone 'hole' is not fixed. It's still there. It is not caused by CFC's. It is a natural phenomenon. See the Chapman cycle.
to denying man's effect on Global Warming.
You have no idea if the globe is warming, cooling, or just staying the same. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth.
Even worse, denying Global Warming altogether at first.
Define 'global warming' without using circular definitions. The phrase 'global warming' is a meaningless buzzword.
Conservatives have come a long way since religiously tuning into FOX News.
I don't watch or listen to FOX news.
 
But *you* do?

Scientists (as opposed to high school grads who were weather technicians) tell us that essentially all the warming we have seen in the past decades is from human causes.

And it’s going to get much worse.

This has been demonstrated by accurate projections from decades ago, and there is very little argument about this from credible scientists.

What credible scientists? Climate 'scientists' deny science and mathematics. They are nothing more than priests in the Church of Global Warming.

Science isn't credentials. It is not a society, academy, government agency, or a Nobel prize. It is nothing more than a set of falsifiable theories.
The inability to measure the temperature of the Earth is not a science question. It is a mathematical one.

How many thermometers are used to measure a global temperature?
 
The "right wing partisan push" has no more to do with climate skepticism than the silly mouthings of Al Gore have to do with so-called "consensus' science.

Svensmark:

[h=3]Increased ionization supports growth of aerosols into cloud ... - Nature[/h]https://www.nature.com › nature communications › articles
by H Svensmark - ‎2017 - ‎Cited by 3 - ‎Related articles
Dec 19, 2017 - Article | Open | Published: 19 December 2017 ... H. Svensmark ORCID: orcid.org/0000-0003-2843-3417 ,; M. B. Enghoff ORCID: ... Clouds are a fundamental part of the terrestrial energy budget, and any process that can ... To form a cloud droplet, water vapor needs to condense to aerosols acting as cloud ...


Shaviv:

Climate debate at the Cambridge Union - a 10 minute summary of the main problems with the standard alarmist polemic

This cannot be correct. The history is very clear. At one point conservatives were perfectly fine placing science above their political partisanship. This is why they agreed that they needed to fix the hole in the ozone layer. In regards to Global Warming, it is not simple skepticism. They flat out deny. Then they accepted it, but insisted that man isn't making it worse. This goes right back to FOX News when they were pushing the birther crap and the tomato paste crap. It was all only about showing defiance as they molded the entire thing around the idea that conservatives are victims of liberal fascist tyranny. Today, people can't even define these words appropriately because the deceptions are more comforting than admitting how they have been and continue to behave.

But why, despite the overwhelming studies and scientists, do you insist that these two scientists, who stand very far from the pack, are correct in their skepticism? In their skepticism they contradict themselves. Aerosols are man made. Conservatives accepted that aerosols and such created the hole in the ozone layer twenty years ago. But they'll be damned if thy agree that the ridiculous uptick in the current global warming phase is man made? Why? Cuz, Gore? Cuz, a liberal was president when it became the global concern? It's false skepticism, based on simply choosing to be irrationally defiant.
 
The product of Shaviv's time at the Institute for Advanced Study:

[h=3]How Might Climate be Influenced by Cosmic Rays? | Institute for ...[/h]https://www.ias.edu/ideas/2015/shaviv-milky-way



Nir Shaviv. Our galactic journey imprinted in the climate—when Earth's temperature (red dots warm, blue dots cold) is plotted as a function of time (vertical axis) ...

Yeah, I read on his hypothesis earlier. It's interesting. Like I stated, his hypothesis doesn't have to be wrong. But what it does not explain is the dramatic spike in this current period. He is trying to explain the history of Global Warming through his hypothesis with no regards as to explaining why we have this unprecedented spike. He offers no explanation why the "cosmic ray diffusion in the Milky Way" is today unlike any other period in history.
 
Science is not data. It is not a measurement. It is not an instrument. Science is a set of falsifiable theories. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. This is a math issue, not a scientific one.

Okay...first question. How many thermometers are used to measure the temperature of the Earth?

Nope. Science is a set of falsifiable theories. ABC News does not define science. Philosophy does, and also gives the reasoning for that definition.

It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. You must first know how many thermometers are used.

Nope. The denial of the Church of Global Warming is based on math and science. The Church of Global Warming denies both.

The ozone 'hole' is not fixed. It's still there. It is not caused by CFC's. It is a natural phenomenon. See the Chapman cycle.

You have no idea if the globe is warming, cooling, or just staying the same. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth.

Define 'global warming' without using circular definitions. The phrase 'global warming' is a meaningless buzzword.

I don't watch or listen to FOX news.

Good god.
 
What credible scientists? Climate 'scientists' deny science and mathematics. They are nothing more than priests in the Church of Global Warming.

Science isn't credentials. It is not a society, academy, government agency, or a Nobel prize. It is nothing more than a set of falsifiable theories.
The inability to measure the temperature of the Earth is not a science question. It is a mathematical one.

How many thermometers are used to measure a global temperature?

Interesting question.

How many would be required for you to think that we can know the global temperature?

Do you have a specific number?
 
This cannot be correct. The history is very clear. At one point conservatives were perfectly fine placing science above their political partisanship. This is why they agreed that they needed to fix the hole in the ozone layer. In regards to Global Warming, it is not simple skepticism. They flat out deny. Then they accepted it, but insisted that man isn't making it worse. This goes right back to FOX News when they were pushing the birther crap and the tomato paste crap. It was all only about showing defiance as they molded the entire thing around the idea that conservatives are victims of liberal fascist tyranny. Today, people can't even define these words appropriately because the deceptions are more comforting than admitting how they have been and continue to behave.

But why, despite the overwhelming studies and scientists, do you insist that these two scientists, who stand very far from the pack, are correct in their skepticism? In their skepticism they contradict themselves. Aerosols are man made. Conservatives accepted that aerosols and such created the hole in the ozone layer twenty years ago. But they'll be damned if thy agree that the ridiculous uptick in the current global warming phase is man made? Why? Cuz, Gore? Cuz, a liberal was president when it became the global concern? It's false skepticism, based on simply choosing to be irrationally defiant.
If you actually look at the the arguments of the skeptics, you would see that they are not denying anything of a scientific nature.
What does the Science say that so many scientist agree will related to AGW?
From my perspective (nearly 4 decades in advanced R&D), the science is that CO2 is a greenhouse gas,
and the currently accepted forcing number of 3.71 Wm-2 for doubling the CO2 level is likely accurate.
While the science may be correct, that alone would not mean catastrophic changes to the climate.
You see, Catastrophic AGW is not one concept but two!
The First concept is that if we double the CO2 level, the energy imbalance at the top of the atmosphere would increase
by 3.71 Wm-2, and that this would force the surface temperature to increase by about 1.1 C.
The second concept (with much greater uncertainty), is that the warming from the forcing would then be amplified
to produce somewhere between minimal and catastrophic warming, (1.5 to 4.5 C).
When scientist look at the climates response to past levels of CO2 increase, and estimate what the eventual
warming will be, based on observations, most estimates fall at 2C or below.
( This includes work don by the lead authors of the last IPCC report.)
https://www.ethz.ch/content/dam/eth...documents/group/climphys/knutti/otto13nat.pdf

You used the term "false skepticism", what do you think people are skeptical of?

I can tell you I am skeptical that the amplified feedbacks have a high enough gain to reach the predicted 3C mark.
What would make me skeptical? if the amplified feedbacks exists, then they would amplify any warming, not simply CO2 warming.
This is important because the climate has warming about 4 C since the end of the last ice age, and it warmed,
.2 C between 1880 and 1940.
In climate science, it is known that there is a time lag between the input and result of a climate changing event.
This time period, has been theorized anywhere between 6.6 and 1000 years.
Recent studies, say the average time period is about 10.1 years.
The time lag between a carbon dioxide emission and maximum warming increases with the size of the emission - IOPscience
But this means that the gain of the climate amplifier cannot be very high.
If the gain were high, and the time period were 10.1 years, we would all already be dead from the .2 C pre 1940 warming.
Consider if the final ECS were 3C? That would mean that the gain was 3/1.1=2.72.
If the gain were 2.72 and the cycle time were 10.1 years, then the .2 C pre 1940 warming,
then by 1960, we would have already seen more warming that has occurred.
Skeptical Science uses a 40 year latency, so by 1980 the .2 C would have become .54 C. which would be on track
to be 1.48 C by 2020. and these numbers do not take into account the know CO2 forcing since 1940.
The math says the gain cannot be that high, and this is supported by the lower findings from observation data.
 
If you actually look at the the arguments of the skeptics, you would see that they are not denying anything of a scientific nature.
What does the Science say that so many scientist agree will related to AGW?
From my perspective (nearly 4 decades in advanced R&D), the science is that CO2 is a greenhouse gas,
and the currently accepted forcing number of 3.71 Wm-2 for doubling the CO2 level is likely accurate.
While the science may be correct, that alone would not mean catastrophic changes to the climate.
You see, Catastrophic AGW is not one concept but two!
The First concept is that if we double the CO2 level, the energy imbalance at the top of the atmosphere would increase
by 3.71 Wm-2, and that this would force the surface temperature to increase by about 1.1 C.
The second concept (with much greater uncertainty), is that the warming from the forcing would then be amplified
to produce somewhere between minimal and catastrophic warming, (1.5 to 4.5 C).
When scientist look at the climates response to past levels of CO2 increase, and estimate what the eventual
warming will be, based on observations, most estimates fall at 2C or below.
( This includes work don by the lead authors of the last IPCC report.)
https://www.ethz.ch/content/dam/eth...documents/group/climphys/knutti/otto13nat.pdf

I can tell you I am skeptical that the amplified feedbacks have a high enough gain to reach the predicted 3C mark.
What would make me skeptical? if the amplified feedbacks exists, then they would amplify any warming, not simply CO2 warming.
This is important because the climate has warming about 4 C since the end of the last ice age, and it warmed,
.2 C between 1880 and 1940.
In climate science, it is known that there is a time lag between the input and result of a climate changing event.
This time period, has been theorized anywhere between 6.6 and 1000 years.
Recent studies, say the average time period is about 10.1 years.
The time lag between a carbon dioxide emission and maximum warming increases with the size of the emission - IOPscience
But this means that the gain of the climate amplifier cannot be very high.
If the gain were high, and the time period were 10.1 years, we would all already be dead from the .2 C pre 1940 warming.
Consider if the final ECS were 3C? That would mean that the gain was 3/1.1=2.72.
If the gain were 2.72 and the cycle time were 10.1 years, then the .2 C pre 1940 warming,
then by 1960, we would have already seen more warming that has occurred.
Skeptical Science uses a 40 year latency, so by 1980 the .2 C would have become .54 C. which would be on track
to be 1.48 C by 2020. and these numbers do not take into account the know CO2 forcing since 1940.
The math says the gain cannot be that high, and this is supported by the lower findings from observation data.

Dude, you are talking way over my head. It looks cut-and-paste, but I'll trust you are a voice of authority in these matters.

But I'm not surprised that you are a skeptic. You declare yourself conservative and you hail from Texas. There appears to be a theme among the skeptics.


You used the term "false skepticism", what do you think people are skeptical of?

As in the same people who chose to believe that tomato paste is a vegetable or that Obama was a Muslim born in Kenya, also chose to regard Global Warming as a "liberal hoax."
 
This cannot be correct. The history is very clear. At one point conservatives were perfectly fine placing science above their political partisanship. This is why they agreed that they needed to fix the hole in the ozone layer. In regards to Global Warming, it is not simple skepticism. They flat out deny. Then they accepted it, but insisted that man isn't making it worse. This goes right back to FOX News when they were pushing the birther crap and the tomato paste crap. It was all only about showing defiance as they molded the entire thing around the idea that conservatives are victims of liberal fascist tyranny. Today, people can't even define these words appropriately because the deceptions are more comforting than admitting how they have been and continue to behave.

But why, despite the overwhelming studies and scientists, do you insist that these two scientists, who stand very far from the pack, are correct in their skepticism? In their skepticism they contradict themselves. Aerosols are man made. Conservatives accepted that aerosols and such created the hole in the ozone layer twenty years ago. But they'll be damned if thy agree that the ridiculous uptick in the current global warming phase is man made? Why? Cuz, Gore? Cuz, a liberal was president when it became the global concern? It's false skepticism, based on simply choosing to be irrationally defiant.

Politics has absolutely nothing to do with the skepticism of Svensmark and Shaviv. It's all about the science. Shaviv's Cambridge presentation is an excellent short summary. Their position would be exactly the same if there were no Fox News or Republican Party.
 
Yeah, I read on his hypothesis earlier. It's interesting. Like I stated, his hypothesis doesn't have to be wrong. But what it does not explain is the dramatic spike in this current period. He is trying to explain the history of Global Warming through his hypothesis with no regards as to explaining why we have this unprecedented spike. He offers no explanation why the "cosmic ray diffusion in the Milky Way" is today unlike any other period in history.



Using historic variations in climate and the cosmic ray flux, one can actually quantify empirically the relation between cosmic ray flux variations and global temperature change, and estimate the solar contribution to the 20th century warming. This contribution comes out to be 0.5±0.2°C out of the observed 0.6±0.2°C global warming (Shaviv, 2005).
SolarActivityProxies.png
Fig. 5: Solar activity over the past several centuries can be reconstructed using different proxies. These reconstructions demonstrate that 20th century activity is unparalleled over the past 600 years (previously high solar activity took place around 1000 years ago, and 8000 yrs ago). Specifically, we see sunspots and 10Be. The latter is formed in the atmosphere by ~1GeV cosmic rays, which are modulated by the solar wind (stronger solar wind → less galactic cosmic rays → less 10Be production). Note that both proxies do not capture the decrease in the high energy cosmic rays that took place since the 1970's, but which the ion chamber data does (see fig. 6). (image source: Wikipedia)




Jul2010
"There is nothing new under the Sun" an article about 20th century global warming

By shaviv 11 Comments
Blog topic:
general science, personal research, weather & climate


After a long lull in activity, I decided it's about time I write an update about my thoughts on global warming. Here it is.

20th century global warming - "There is nothing new under the Sun" - Part I
20th century global warming - "There is nothing new under the Sun" - Part II
20th century global warming - "There is nothing new under the Sun" - Part III
 
Dude, you are talking way over my head. It looks cut-and-paste, but I'll trust you are a voice of authority in these matters.

But I'm not surprised that you are a skeptic. You declare yourself conservative and you hail from Texas. There appears to be a theme among the skeptics.




As in the same people who chose to believe that tomato paste is a vegetable or that Obama was a Muslim born in Kenya, also chose to regard Global Warming as a "liberal hoax."
If you believe what other people tell you without question, that is faith, there is no room in science for faith.
When people tell you the world we live in is in danger from Human activity,
it is worth learning if what they are saying passes a credibility test.
In your service in the Marines, you have likely heard many excuses as to why someone was not on time,
or something was not done the way it was supposed to be done.
I suspect, to be an effective leader, you quickly learned which excuses were valid, and which ones were likely
not so valid.
Science is about being skeptical! you do not move things ahead, without questioning if the what others tell you is real.
In the climate sciences, they are not saying some specific number is what the future warming will be,
but rather an enormous range between no big deal, and we are all going to die.
When the observed data points to the lower end of the range, it is proper to be skeptical of those,
who insist otherwise.
 
If you believe what other people tell you without question, that is faith, there is no room in science for faith.
When people tell you the world we live in is in danger from Human activity,
it is worth learning if what they are saying passes a credibility test.
In your service in the Marines, you have likely heard many excuses as to why someone was not on time,
or something was not done the way it was supposed to be done.
I suspect, to be an effective leader, you quickly learned which excuses were valid, and which ones were likely
not so valid.
Science is about being skeptical! you do not move things ahead, without questioning if the what others tell you is real.
In the climate sciences, they are not saying some specific number is what the future warming will be,
but rather an enormous range between no big deal, and we are all going to die.
When the observed data points to the lower end of the range, it is proper to be skeptical of those,
who insist otherwise.

I’m sure you don’t take any medications.

Because if you did, you’d only be following what other people tell you.

And surely you understand that all treatments have a wide spectrum of effects, from benefit, to no benefit, to causing harm.

And you can’t possibly know the outcome, and can’t possibly evaluate the rigor or accuracy of the data, so I trust you are a Christian Scientist, right?
 
I’m sure you don’t take any medications.

Because if you did, you’d only be following what other people tell you.

And surely you understand that all treatments have a wide spectrum of effects, from benefit, to no benefit, to causing harm.

And you can’t possibly know the outcome, and can’t possibly evaluate the rigor or accuracy of the data, so I trust you are a Christian Scientist, right?
Your attempt to describe an analogy linking medical practices with sciences like AGW has always been a poor one,
yet you keep repeating it.
Try to imagine a Medical doctor who prescribed medications with the same level of uncertainty as the climate sciences?
 
But why, despite the overwhelming studies and scientists, do you insist that these two scientists, who stand very far from the pack, are correct in their skepticism?

The hypothesis of anthropogenic global warming (AGW) is based on the work of Svante Arrhenius, which was a jewel of 19th century physics. The 21st century work of Svensmark and Shaviv encompasses data, knowledge and understanding undreamed of by Arrhenius.
Once upon a time the Ptolemaic planetary system was the consensus view of scientists, until Copernicus came along with new data, knowledge and understanding.
Please see Thomas Kuhn, ​The Structure of Scientific Revolutions.
 
Your attempt to describe an analogy linking medical practices with sciences like AGW has always been a poor one,
yet you keep repeating it.
Try to imagine a Medical doctor who prescribed medications with the same level of uncertainty as the climate sciences?

Its actually the standard. In fact, the certainty for most drugs, or even procedures, is wildly less certain than you seem to think.

Are you taking a statin? How much benefit will you get from that? Do you have any idea? Do you understand the range of benefit you might get, and the probabilities involved?

Yet you take it based on some guys recommendation, because he's studied this information (or, much more likely, he's following the 'scientific consensus'), and you are OK with that.
 
Its actually the standard. In fact, the certainty for most drugs, or even procedures, is wildly less certain than you seem to think.

Are you taking a statin? How much benefit will you get from that? Do you have any idea? Do you understand the range of benefit you might get, and the probabilities involved?

Yet you take it based on some guys recommendation, because he's studied this information (or, much more likely, he's following the 'scientific consensus'), and you are OK with that.

recently in JAMA

[FONT=&quot]Institutions have a central role in protecting the integrity of research. They employ researchers, own the facilities where the work is conducted, receive grant funding, and teach many students about the research process. When questions arise about research misconduct associated with published articles, scientists and journal editors usually first ask the researchers’ institution to investigate the allegations and then report the outcomes, under defined circumstances, to federal oversight agencies and other entities, including journals.[SUP]1[/SUP][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Depending on institutions to investigate their own faculty presents significant challenges. Misconduct reports, the mandated product of institutional investigations for which US federal dollars have been spent, have a wide range of problems. These include lack of standardization, inherent conflicts of interest that must be addressed to directly ensure credibility, little quality control or peer review, and limited oversight. Even when institutions act, the information they release to the public is often limited and unhelpful.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]As a result, like most elements of research misconduct, little is known about institutions’ responses to potential misconduct by their own members. The community that relies on the integrity of university research does not have access to information about how often such claims arise, or how they are resolved. Nonetheless, there are some indications that many internal reviews are deficient. . . . [/FONT]


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