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The very definition of "insanity" in America

eman623 said:
I lack @Greenbeard's telepathic powers so I can't comment what is in Trump's mind, other than he said. He already abolished the powergrab mandate penaltax during his last presidency.

As for @Citizen, my memory is certainly better than your ability to click a link.

Given that Trump will need 60 Senators to pass anything, Trump is as unlikely to completely repeal Obamacare in 2025 as he was in 2017. Voters know this. Which blows up the whole "insanity" thing. If people know Trump can't do it, then there's no more danger in voting for that than any politician's promises that won't be kept.

But even if Trump does somehow manage to repeal Obamacare, something else will replace it. To pretend otherwise is self-delusion or demagoguing, take your pick.
Click to expand...

We all know what rolls of his tongue, but since he said the same thing 7 years ago, it's a fair assumption that nothing is on his mind.
 
Jack2aTee said:
Millions of diehard Republicans are on Obamacare. They say without it they or their loved ones would die.

Trump promises that if he's elected in 2024 he will finish the job of destroying Obamacare. He has nothing in mind to replace it with.

Millions of diehard Republicans say they will still vote for Trump in 2024 even though they know he's going to try his damndest to take away the very healthcare program they admit keeps them alive.

I defy any reader to find me a better example of the crass stupidity that Republicans operate under when it comes to Donald J Trump.
Click to expand...

Obamacare didn't fo a ****ing thing to reduce costs.

1710106197558.png

You liberals love to brag how many more people are covered, but you never speak of how limited the cheapest health care policies are.
 
eman623 said:
Fake news.

Trump vows to replace ObamaCare with his own alternative​

thehill.com

Trump vows to replace ObamaCare with his own alternative

Former President Trump vowed Monday to replace the Affordable Care Act (ACA) with his own “much better” alternative program, reviving his push to slash the now-popular health care option used by mi…
thehill.com thehill.com
Click to expand...
Ah.,,, young MAGA are simply adorable. There’s a certain child-like innocence to their posts. It’s as if they actually believe that Donald is going to unveil his Beautiful health care plan, his Powerful tax returns and his Tremendous jobs plan any week now!
 
Grand Mal said:
Seriously?
"I will come up with a much better, and less expensive, alternative! People will be happy, not sad!”
Do people still believe this crap? Specifically, do you still believe this crap?
"I will come up with..."
Incredible.
Click to expand...
When it comes to MAGA idiots

"You can fool ALL of the people ALL of the time."
 
ataraxia said:
Trump voters know he has nothing to replace it with. They are smart enough to know that Trump is not smart or sophisticated enough to come up with anything positive or constructive. He is only good for destroying and tearing down.

They vote for him, but are then afraid he will actually do what they voted for him to do. They vote for him even if they know he will hurt them. They will vote for him even if they know that means they may die for it. It’s self sacrifice for the cult prophet. It would be comical if it wasn’t so sad. It’s like watching the Jonestown cult.





They are not voting for him because of self interest or sound policy. They vote for him because of a sense of primitive tribalism. They vote for him hoping he will hurt those “others” even more than them.
Click to expand...

I think the reason they stick with the Marmaladed Moron is because they cannot bring themselves to admit they've been played like a violin by Trump--that they can't stand the thought that when Trump gets together with his wealthy buddies he's saying things like, "Can you believe how stupid these hillbilly hicks are? They actually believe I'll do everything I promise them. If I told them "If you elect me I'll pass a bill giving every MAGA a brand new F-150" they'd fall for it hook, line and sinker." It must be horrible to realize you've been had and continue to be had by the greatest shyster conman in our nation's history.

"Nothing like it has ever been seen..."🤣🤣🤣
 
Jack2aTee said:
I think the reason they stick with the Marmaladed Moron is because they cannot bring themselves to admit they've been played like a violin by Trump--that they can't stand the thought that when Trump gets together with his wealthy buddies he's saying things like, "Can you believe how stupid these hillbilly hicks are? They actually believe I'll do everything I promise them. If I told them "If you elect me I'll pass a bill giving every MAGA a brand new F-150" they'd fall for it hook, line and sinker." It must be horrible to realize you've been had and continue to be had by the greatest shyster conman in our nation's history.

"Nothing like it has ever been seen..."🤣🤣🤣
Click to expand...
He likes the poorly educated 🤷‍♂️
 
eman623 said:
I lack @Greenbeard's telepathic powers so I can't comment what is in Trump's mind, other than he said.
Click to expand...

No need for telepathy, just a memory that extends back over the past decade coupled with a little pattern recognition. Trump has been lying about replacing the ACA since 2015 or so, and the GOP as a whole has been lying since 2010.

In reality, Trump has a record. He sought to strip millions of people of coverage via legislation, turned to undermining their coverage through executive action when that failed, and moved on to asking the courts (unsuccessfully) to take away people's coverage. But hey, that replacement is always two weeks away!

VanceMack said:
SINCE the passage of the 'affordable' health care act, most peoples policies skyrocketed, with some having to balance skyrocketing premiums with deductibles that made insurance essentially worthless.
Click to expand...

Delusional. The overwhelming majority of people with private coverage are in employer-based plans, which saw their premium increases more than cut in half (from average annual increases of 7.2% in the decade before Obamacare down to 3.2% in the decade after), falling to historic lows. The Obamacare era is the era of the lowest health care cost growth on record.

RetiredUSN said:
Obamacare didn't fo a ****ing thing to reduce costs.

View attachment 67497563
Click to expand...

Health care today costs 17.2% of GDP. The exact same thing it cost fifteen years ago. There's no comparable decade-plus period ever over which relative health care cost growth was zero.

We've lived through a historic, unprecedented health care cost slowdown that's saved the taxpayers trillions on Medicare (since real per capita Medicare beneficiary costs have been flat since 2010, abruptly halting 45 straight years of steady growth) and trillions more in private spending. And yet people still make these dumb claims.

You liberals love to brag how many more people are covered, but you never speak of how limited the cheapest health care policies are.
Click to expand...

The rightwing gripe used to be that Obamacare minimums are too generous. In fact, the GOP's big idea when they got power in 2017 was to try to create "tin" plans that would be less generous than Obamacare bronze plans.
 
Greenbeard said:
No need for telepathy, just a memory that extends back over the past decade coupled with a little pattern recognition. Trump has been lying about replacing the ACA since 2015 or so, and the GOP as a whole has been lying since 2010.

In reality, Trump has a record. He sought to strip millions of people of coverage via legislation, turned to undermining their coverage through executive action when that failed, and moved on to asking the courts (unsuccessfully) to take away people's coverage. But hey, that replacement is always two weeks away!



Delusional. The overwhelming majority of people with private coverage are in employer-based plans, which saw their premium increases more than cut in half (from average annual increases of 7.2% in the decade before Obamacare down to 3.2% in the decade after), falling to historic lows. The Obamacare era is the era of the lowest health care cost growth on record.



Health care today costs 17.2% of GDP. The exact same thing it cost fifteen years ago. There's no comparable decade-plus period ever over which relative health care cost growth was zero.

We've lived through a historic, unprecedented health care cost slowdown that's saved the taxpayers trillions on Medicare (since real per capita Medicare beneficiary costs have been flat since 2010, abruptly halting 45 straight years of steady growth) and trillions more in private spending. And yet people still make these dumb claims.



The rightwing gripe used to be that Obamacare minimums are too generous. In fact, the GOP's big idea when they got power in 2017 was to try to create "tin" plans that would be less generous than Obamacare bronze plans.
Click to expand...
The only people that are 'delusional' are the people that mindlessly bought into the leftist rhetoric.
"As Table 1 shows, the national average monthly premium paid in the individual market in 2013 was $244, while by 2019 it was $558—more than doubling (a 129 percent increase) from 2013 to 2019. In contrast, over the same period, the average monthly premium paid in the large-group employer market increased by only 29 percent—from $363 in 2013 to $468 in 2019. (For comparison purposes, we applied the same analysis to the MLR data for the large-group employer market)."

www.heritage.org

Obamacare Has Doubled the Cost of Individual Health Insurance

The Affordable Care Act (ACA), known as Obamacare, produced major dislocations in the individual (non-group) health insurance market by imposing a raft of new mandates and regulations, coupled with new income-related coverage subsidies. The results have been not only reduced insurer choice and...
www.heritage.org www.heritage.org
 
VanceMack said:
The only people that are 'delusional' are the people that mindlessly bought into the leftist rhetoric.
"As Table 1 shows, the national average monthly premium paid in the individual market in 2013 was $244, while by 2019 it was $558—more than doubling (a 129 percent increase) from 2013 to 2019. In contrast, over the same period, the average monthly premium paid in the large-group employer market increased by only 29 percent—from $363 in 2013 to $468 in 2019. (For comparison purposes, we applied the same analysis to the MLR data for the large-group employer market)."

www.heritage.org

Obamacare Has Doubled the Cost of Individual Health Insurance

The Affordable Care Act (ACA), known as Obamacare, produced major dislocations in the individual (non-group) health insurance market by imposing a raft of new mandates and regulations, coupled with new income-related coverage subsidies. The results have been not only reduced insurer choice and...
www.heritage.org www.heritage.org
Click to expand...

The average net premium in the individual market last year was $129.

So, assuming Heritage's numbers are correct, that's a nearly 50% decrease in what the average individual market buyer pays today than a decade earlier. And for coverage that's more comprehensive with better consumer protections. Pretty good!

Meanwhile, as already noted (and as Heritage confirms there), the employer-based coverage--like that large groups offer-- that the overwhelming majority of people have grew historically slowly in the years after the ACA passed.
 
eman623 said:
Fake news.

Trump vows to replace ObamaCare with his own alternative​

thehill.com

Trump vows to replace ObamaCare with his own alternative

Former President Trump vowed Monday to replace the Affordable Care Act (ACA) with his own “much better” alternative program, reviving his push to slash the now-popular health care option used by mi…
thehill.com thehill.com
Click to expand...
And, this time he really means it!

Does he really expect anyone believes this, after his non-performance while he was president
 
Greenbeard said:
The average net premium in the individual market last year was $129.

So, assuming Heritage's numbers are correct, that's a nearly 50% decrease in what the average individual market buyer pays today than a decade earlier. And for coverage that's more comprehensive with better consumer protections. Pretty good!

Meanwhile, as already noted (and as Heritage confirms there), the employer-based coverage--like that large groups offer-- that the overwhelming majority of people have grew historically slowly in the years after the ACA passed.
Click to expand...
Higher premiums...higher deductibles to afford care...no real improvement in uninsured numbers.

"The Commonwealth Fund, another nonpartisan research organization, studied the three-year period before the passage of the ACA—from 2008 to 2010—and found that premiums on the individual market were rising by 10% or more per year nationwide."
www.investopedia.com

Did Obamacare Make Premiums Go Up?

A careful look at data from nonpartisan sources suggests that any increases have been modest by historical standards.
www.investopedia.com www.investopedia.com

Where 'substantial decreases' were seen they were realized by government subsidies...in other words...taxes dumped on future generations.

"For 2024, across 320 insurers participating in the 50 states and DC, this analysis shows a median proposed premium increase of 6%. Based on a more detailed analysis of publicly available documents from 58 insurers, growth in health care prices stood out as a key factor driving costs in 2024. In addition to inflation, insurers also mention changes in pandemic-related costs and the unwinding of Medicaid continuous coverage, though the latter are having a small, if any, effect on premiums."
www.healthsystemtracker.org

How much and why 2024 premiums are expected to grow in Affordable Care Act Marketplaces - Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker

Health insurers submit rate filings annually to state regulators detailing expectations and rate changes for Affordable Care Act (ACA)-regulated health plans for the coming year. A relatively small share of the population is enrolled in these plans (compared to the number in employer plans), but...
www.healthsystemtracker.org www.healthsystemtracker.org

​

 
VanceMack said:
Higher premiums...higher deductibles to afford care...no real improvement in uninsured numbers.
Click to expand...

Once again, delusional.

Picture3_ae0e6a.png


"The Commonwealth Fund, another nonpartisan research organization, studied the three-year period before the passage of the ACA—from 2008 to 2010—and found that premiums on the individual market were rising by 10% or more per year nationwide."
Click to expand...
"For 2024, across 320 insurers participating in the 50 states and DC, this analysis shows a median proposed premium increase of 6%.
Click to expand...

Wow, so individual market premiums today (a post-pandemic catch-up year) are rising at half the rate they were before the ACA passed? Feels like that wasn't your claim, but if it was, okay.
 
Greenbeard said:
Health care today costs 17.2% of GDP. The exact same thing it cost fifteen years ago. There's no comparable decade-plus period ever over which relative health care cost growth was zero.

We've lived through a historic, unprecedented health care cost slowdown that's saved the taxpayers trillions on Medicare (since real per capita Medicare beneficiary costs have been flat since 2010, abruptly halting 45 straight years of steady growth) and trillions more in private spending. And yet people still make these dumb claims.
Click to expand...
The real problem is: of that 17.2%, 40% of that is govement subsidies. Before obamacare people for their own care. Now they depend on the goverment and we have trillion dollar deficits to show for it. We want to keep cost low or stable AND we want the people to be able to pay for it without racking up the deficit.
 
dmpi said:
The real problem is: of that 17.2%, 40% of that is govement subsidies. Before obamacare people for their own care. Now they depend on the goverment and we have trillion dollar deficits to show for it. We want to keep cost low or stable AND we want the people to be able to pay for it without racking up the deficit.
Click to expand...

The percentage of health care spending that's public instead of private is up about four percentage points from what it was before Obamacare, fifteen years ago. The shift in composition of health care financing, public vs. private, has been quite small.

If you want to draw a line between a time when people didn't "depend on the government" and when they did, the dividing line would be 1965, not 2010.
 
ataraxia said:
Trump voters know he has nothing to replace it with. They are smart enough to know that Trump is not smart or sophisticated enough to come up with anything positive or constructive. He is only good for destroying and tearing down.

They vote for him, but are then afraid he will actually do what they voted for him to do. They vote for him even if they know he will hurt them. They will vote for him even if they know that means they may die for it. It’s self sacrifice for the cult prophet. It would be comical if it wasn’t so sad. It’s like watching the Jonestown cult.





They are not voting for him because of self interest or sound policy. They vote for him because of a sense of primitive tribalism. They vote for him hoping he will hurt those “others” even more than them.
Click to expand...

Actually the last paragraph is spot on. SPOT ON.
" they vote hoping he will hurt those " others" more than he hurts them."
 
Jack2aTee said:
Millions of diehard Republicans are on Obamacare. They say without it they or their loved ones would die.

Trump promises that if he's elected in 2024 he will finish the job of destroying Obamacare. He has nothing in mind to replace it with.

Millions of diehard Republicans say they will still vote for Trump in 2024 even though they know he's going to try his damndest to take away the very healthcare program they admit keeps them alive.

I defy any reader to find me a better example of the crass stupidity that Republicans operate under when it comes to Donald J Trump.
Click to expand...

Personally, Obamacare put me out of even having health insurance. Good for those who are poor and need free healthcare or for those who can afford it, or those lucky enough to have an employer paying for it, but for people like me the rates went through the roof to where I have no healthcare. A cheap plan's premium for me was $750 per month premium......simply can't afford it and not willing to be robbed.
 
redbeer said:
Personally, Obamacare put me out of even having health insurance. Good for those who are poor and need free healthcare or for those who can afford it, or those lucky enough to have an employer paying for it, but for people like me the rates went through the roof to where I have no healthcare. A cheap plan's premium for me was $750 per month premium......simply can't afford it and not willing to be robbed.
Click to expand...

I suppose that's why Biden took steps to make coverage in the marketplaces more affordable.
 
Jack2aTee said:
Millions of diehard Republicans are on Obamacare. They say without it they or their loved ones would die.

Trump promises that if he's elected in 2024 he will finish the job of destroying Obamacare. He has nothing in mind to replace it with.

Millions of diehard Republicans say they will still vote for Trump in 2024 even though they know he's going to try his damndest to take away the very healthcare program they admit keeps them alive.

I defy any reader to find me a better example of the crass stupidity that Republicans operate under when it comes to Donald J Trump.
Click to expand...
Obamacare is very very expensive with max-out-of-pocket being nearly 10,000usd. You are talking about Republicans who are not on obamacare. If they were on obamacare, they would not differ from how they are now, but they would at least know that some bad things only get worst.
 
redbeer said:
Personally, Obamacare put me out of even having health insurance. Good for those who are poor and need free healthcare or for those who can afford it, or those lucky enough to have an employer paying for it, but for people like me the rates went through the roof to where I have no healthcare. A cheap plan's premium for me was $750 per month premium......simply can't afford it and not willing to be robbed.
Click to expand...
Yep. Obamacare is expensive for receiving nothing. It's the American way. Two get it for free, one gets it for a very steep discount and then the fourth pays for all four of them. When it really should be a limit to how expensive things can be with the limit of a certain percentage of that individuals' income. Max out of pocket should be 3,000usd and the yearly premium should be 1,000usd.
 
eman623 said:
Fake news.

Trump vows to replace ObamaCare with his own alternative​

thehill.com

Trump vows to replace ObamaCare with his own alternative

Former President Trump vowed Monday to replace the Affordable Care Act (ACA) with his own “much better” alternative program, reviving his push to slash the now-popular health care option used by mi…
thehill.com thehill.com
Click to expand...
I think both the items above are fake in a way. First, as you pointed out, Trump suggests he will replace Obamacare. But second, he’s been talking about this for quite a while, and never has described his replacement other than to say it will be bigger and better, which he says about everything. My bet is that he will name no replacement and if elected do nothing to the ACA.
 
There are voters out there who could care less if the country burns to the ground as long as a liberal was “owned” in the process…
 
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