• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The super rich do not hurt you

But it’s not. That wealth isn’t effecting us unless it’s consumed. It’s just accounting digits.

Way to ignore how its being consumed.

Its not being spent on rent or food for the most part. Its being used to peddle and gain influence among those who are then giving these same people every advantage in the book to be able to continue funding the political elite on both sides.

Its most definitely hurting us....unless you see the few holding that much influence over the many as a good thing.
 
But if everyone did like Ted and took their trillion profit out of circulation the economy would be dead.

The problem is any system that's open-ended has problems with human judgment, which leans towards self-interest.

They can't. That is the rub of it. As I have posted before Bill Gates needs the Waltons who need Bezos who needs Gates. With the national coin shortage they would be lucky to get a dime on the dollar if they actually went to sell all their "wealth" i.e. their stocks. There isn't going to be demand in the market for Gates' 330 million shares of MSFT at $200 per share
 
talk about hip waders. The deck is stacked you say in favor of the people who pay the vast majority of the taxes, while 40% of the population pays zero income tax, many of which actually get paid through the tax system to motivate them to get out of bed and get their asses to work (earned income tax credit). They pay nothing while reaping all sorts of benefits from federal government. Stacked you say? The reality is the rich are financing their walk through life to a large degree, and some of them whine like babies for more.

Raise the minimum wage until the Poor pay their fair capital share of taxes.
 
No, it doesn't.

Yes really:

Minimum wage: Updated research roundup on the effects of increasing pay - Journalist's Resource

The biggest of which is higher prices, and it is the working poor that make just above that new minimum wage that suffer the most. They get no benefit, but hit with higher prices for fast food etc.

Also there is more unemployment, which again hits the poor. And the more it’s raised, the more Walmart snd others turn to automation and technology to replace them. Making a shortage of entry level jobs to help young people enter the work force
 
The very wealthy do NOT bury their loot. They use it to bribe the greedy pols, to pamper themselves, while causing suffering for all others. They use it to monopolize THEIR rentseeking while hobbling all others.

that nonsense oozes class envy but it might apply to some-such as the scumbag soros. Most of the very wealthy aren't harming others though.
 
You are correct about Ted, but most of the super rich are not like Ted. Most of them put that trillion back into the economy. That's a good thing because it increases the economy from top to bottom.

Unfortunately, there are also super rich who want to get richer and will do whatever it takes to get there. These are the ones who buy politicians to pass legislation favorable to the super rich...legislation that ends up being unfavorable to everyone who is not super rich.

These super rich DO hurt you.
Funny thing about "super rich" buying politicians is some buy Dems and some buy Republicans. Looking at a list of lobbyists for instance it's pretty clear money from every side of every issue is flowing to politicians of all stripes. For every evil, wicked, mean and nasty Koch Bros there's an evil, wicked, mean and nasty George Soros.

But, aside from that, generally the rich become rich by creating or improving on a product or service people are willing to pay for. AND managing to compete with every other entrepreneur trying to fill the same niche. Along the way their products improve the lives of millions of customers, and provide jobs for millions and investment opportunities for others. Remember the old "if you don't like capitalists next time you need a job go ask a hippie"?

Am I saying the rich and ultra-rich are spotless angels? Nope, but then who is?

A common misconception about wealth is that it is a finite resource; that someone only gains wealth if someone else loses it. Wealth is unbounded, it's created almost continually. Suppose I go to Office depot and buy a ream of paper and a box of pencils - office depot's wealth has gone up by the amount of profit they make. Since I value the paper and pencils more than their cost my wealth as gone up as well.

So I take that paper and those pencils and write "The Great American Novel" and get an agent to find a publisher. When he succeeds I get an advance and the agent gets a commission - far more than the original cost of the paper and pencils; that wealth of the agent and me has gone up again. The publisher prints a million copies, sends them to bookstores and the first run sells out in two days - again the wealth of me, the agent, the publisher and the book stores has increased. Not bad for $10 worth of paper and pens, eh. And no one got anything stolen from them; each of us exchanged some thing we had for something we valued more.

This little scenario is played out millions of times in a capitalist economy. Simple as that.
 
They also invest in successful businesses that create most of the jobs.

That wouldn;t exist unless the folks who aren;t rich.. have enough money to buy their products.
 
Most people are just plain assed jealous. And most people do not make enough money or have enough business experience to understand the tax code, changes of which are made by congress. Thus, the federal tax code is called “The Book of Favors”.

“Bezos pays less income tax than I do!”
“Yes, Pumpkin. Bezos used his profits to expand his business. Congress likes that.”
I used to have a forum signature:
Emulate the rich; don't immolate them
I think that cover it.
 
Funny thing about "super rich" buying politicians is some buy Dems and some buy Republicans. Looking at a list of lobbyists for instance it's pretty clear money from every side of every issue is flowing to politicians of all stripes. For every evil, wicked, mean and nasty Koch Bros there's an evil, wicked, mean and nasty George Soros.

But, aside from that, generally the rich become rich by creating or improving on a product or service people are willing to pay for. AND managing to compete with every other entrepreneur trying to fill the same niche. Along the way their products improve the lives of millions of customers, and provide jobs for millions and investment opportunities for others. Remember the old "if you don't like capitalists next time you need a job go ask a hippie"?

Am I saying the rich and ultra-rich are spotless angels? Nope, but then who is?

A common misconception about wealth is that it is a finite resource; that someone only gains wealth if someone else loses it. Wealth is unbounded, it's created almost continually. Suppose I go to Office depot and buy a ream of paper and a box of pencils - office depot's wealth has gone up by the amount of profit they make. Since I value the paper and pencils more than their cost my wealth as gone up as well.

So I take that paper and those pencils and write "The Great American Novel" and get an agent to find a publisher. When he succeeds I get an advance and the agent gets a commission - far more than the original cost of the paper and pencils; that wealth of the agent and me has gone up again. The publisher prints a million copies, sends them to bookstores and the first run sells out in two days - again the wealth of me, the agent, the publisher and the book stores has increased. Not bad for $10 worth of paper and pens, eh. And no one got anything stolen from them; each of us exchanged some thing we had for something we valued more.

This little scenario is played out millions of times in a capitalist economy. Simple as that.

Actually the super rich buy both democrats and republicans. Power is power. .
Still, a handful of conservative Democrats continue to take in donations from Koch’s corporate PAC. All are members of the most conservative group of congressional Democrats, the Blue Dog Coalition, a group of 26 House representatives “dedicated to pursuing fiscally-responsible policies, ensuring a strong national defense, and transcending party lines to get things done for the American people.”
ince 1996, the campaigns and leadership PACs of seven current members of the Blue Dog Coalition have benefited from a total of $252,000 in contributions from KochPAC:

Here Are Koch Industries’ Favorite Democrats – Sludge
 
Last edited:
The richest president in American history has gotten financial support from nearly one in 10 U.S. billionaires.
Here Are The Billionaires Backing Donald Trump’s Campaign

Report: Wealthy 'Elite Donors' Fueling U.S. Politics
Report: Wealthy 'Elite Donors' Fueling U.S. Politics : NPR

Small Pool of Rich Donors Dominates Election Giving
Small Pool of Rich Donors Dominates Election Giving - The New York Times

It’s Not the 1 Percent Controlling Politics. It’s the 0.01 ...
It’s Not the 1 Percent Controlling Politics. It’s the 0.01 Percent. – Mother Jones

How Government Works To Help The Rich And Not You
How Government Works To Help The Rich And Not You | HuffPost
Did you notice the number of superrich candidates the Dems fielded this cycle?
 
Actually the super rich by both democrats and republicans. Power is power. .

And they don't limit themselves to the US. They buy politicians in every country.
 
Once we give the five old rich guys all of the money, they will rain down prosperity on all of the rest of us. It will be a yellow rain that smells funny accompanied with thunder that sounds like laughter.
Did you get hired by a homeless guy? Your board of directors meet at the homeless shelter? :cool:
 
And they don't limit themselves to the US. They buy politicians in every country.

Absolutely. I would not be surprised if most of the superrich.. who are citizens of the US.. really don;t see themselves as "americans".
 
Did you get hired by a homeless guy? Your board of directors meet at the homeless shelter? :cool:

Did your boss hire you without anyone buying his products and services? Did your boss just decide to give you a job.. when no one was buying the product or services you provide?

A homeless person.. still buys stuff. And their buying stuff is in part.. why you likely have a job.
 
A least not as much as people think. Why? Because they do not compete for consumption at he proportionally higher rate of their wealth. And that is the core of what effects everyone else.

Consider the analogy of Ted. Ted invented a widget that saved vast amounts of time producing x. It was the best invention ever. Ted goes on to make a trillion dollars. Richest man in the world by far. As Ted earned his money, he buried it in the yard, all trillion of it. He lived in a one bedroom shack, he was an eccentric to say the least.

Has Ted hurt society? Is this wealth inequality damaging to others? To the contrary, Ted’s life was incredibly beneficial to society. His invention lowered the cost of goods and improved the wealth of everyone. His holding his wealth instead of consuming likewise benefited society by not competing for consumption and increasing prices.

Yet, based on confusion about wealth, Ted would be demonized by many as selfish for the way he lived.

This Confusion in part stems from our ideas of wealth. Wealth at its core is consumption. What we call wealth (financial wealth) are simply claims on that consumption.

Who was really wealthier, Ted, or an average person who enjoyed their financial wealth driving nice vehicles and eating nice food etc? Who led the wealthier life?

Another SERF Worshiping his Serf Masters.... Promoting his obsessions with Serfdom.
 
List some examples of "Ted's".

Here in the real world, we deal in reality. If you can't find examples, then its not reality, is it?
Ray Krok, Steve Jobs, Michael Dell, Sam Walton. Jeff Bezos, Bill Hewlett and David Packard - to name just a few.
 
When talking about corporation...which, other than stock market gamblers, where the rich come from...taxes are a cost of doing business. They pass that cost on to the consumers...including that 40% who don't pay taxes.
He's talking personal income tax - the government's major funding source.
 
Did your boss hire you without anyone buying his products and services? Did your boss just decide to give you a job.. when no one was buying the product or services you provide?

A homeless person.. still buys stuff. And their buying stuff is in part.. why you likely have a job.
He hired me because what I bring to the company is worth more than the salary we negotiated.
 
You are correct about Ted, but most of the super rich are not like Ted. Most of them put that trillion back into the economy. That's a good thing because it increases the economy from top to bottom.

Unfortunately, there are also super rich who want to get richer and will do whatever it takes to get there. These are the ones who buy politicians to pass legislation favorable to the super rich...legislation that ends up being unfavorable to everyone who is not super rich.

These super rich DO hurt you.

Agreed. Just as there is the good and the bad in pretty much everything and pretty much everyone.
 
that nonsense oozes class envy but it might apply to some-such as the scumbag soros. Most of the very wealthy aren't harming others though.

Yeah, I was thinking of Soros as well, specifically

How Did George Soros Break the Bank of England?

I looked into this a bit further, and there was nothing that Soros did which was illegal. He realized that the UK tying their Pound to the German Mark was a bad move, predicted the UK inflation, and 'shorted' the Pound when he figured it'd go down. All legal.

It did, however, harm a great many people in the UK, and it did make him a pile of money.

How George Soros Singlehandedly Created The European Refugee Crisis - And Why
by Tyler Durden, Sat, 07/09/2016
How George Soros Singlehandedly Created The European Refugee Crisis - And Why | Zero Hedge

Again, harming a great many people.

George Soros' quiet overhaul of the US justice system - Politico
[url]www.politico.com
› story › 2016/08 › george-soros-cri...[/URL]
Aug 30, 2016 - Soros has spent on district attorney campaigns in Florida, Illinois, Louisiana, ... records, though some groups also got donations from nonprofits like the Civic ... Liberal donors have long given to policy-focused nonprofits; the ...

Soros Aims to Transform the Justice System by Funding DA ...
capitalresearch.org › article › soros-aims-to-transform-t...
Dec 17, 2019 - Financier and left-wing philanthropist George Soros contributed large sums to progressive candidates running for district attorney (DA) all ...

Soros Adds Intrigue and $800,000 to D.A. Race, Backing ...
[url]www.nytimes.com
› nyregion › soros-election-da
[/URL]Nov 4, 2019 - Shani Curry Mitchell's bid to become district attorney in Monroe ... did not douse Mr. Soros's interest in local races; his PAC has contributed to five ... state Republican Party attacked, calling Mr. Soros “a radical liberal” who is ...

We have seen what harm the leftist DAs have wrought. You can see their finger prints on the ever increasing riots (by not charging rioters, and just turning them lose for the next evening's riots - hard to riot when you are behind bars).

I would seem that Soros would fall into the 'bad' ultra rich category.
 
Did you get hired by a homeless guy? Your board of directors meet at the homeless shelter? :cool:

who knows? ask them. i doubt that they'd bother to respond to my email.
 
Back
Top Bottom