The Passion of Southern Christians

[DashingAmerican]

An opinion yes and others have the right to ignore it. I don't really understand your point about responsibility. Why should believing in a primitive superstition give a person the right to judge others? I leave that kind of thing to the police.

Not everyone is like you and sees it as a superstition. Doesn't make it right or wrong.

 

[Realitywins]

Not everyone is like you and sees it as a superstition. Doesn't make it right or wrong.

Nevertheless, it remains a superstition.

 

[DashingAmerican]

Nevertheless, it remains a superstition.

This isn't a thread on the existence or non-existence of God(s).

 

[zyzygy]

Not everyone is like you and sees it as a superstition. Doesn't make it right or wrong.

I think that is it wrong for a church to sit in judgement of others. They should mind their own business. I probably have a different perspective on this because I live in a part of secular Europe where religion plays no part in most people's lives. I don't know anyone who goes to church.

 

[DashingAmerican]

I think that is it wrong for a church to sit in judgement of others. They should mind their own business. I probably have a different perspective on this because I live in a part of secular Europe where religion plays no part in most people's lives. I don't know anyone who goes to church.

I don't feel like the staff of the church judges anyone; I would say they remind attenders of what it is supposed to be to be a Christian.

Now for some of the attendance, there are definitely judgemental people in it, as well as anywhere else.

 

[zyzygy]

I don't feel like the staff of the church judges anyone; I would say they remind attenders of what it is supposed to be to be a Christian.

Now for some of the attendance, there are definitely judgemental people in it, as well as anywhere else.

Fair enough, but not everybody wants to be a Christian. Those that don't should be left in peace.

 

[DashingAmerican]

Fair enough, but not everybody wants to be a Christian. Those that don't should be left in peace.

Those that don't wouldn't be inside a church.

 

[zyzygy]

Those that don't wouldn't be inside a church.

Those in the church have no right to call out members of the community who they believe are not pulling their weight. I call that arrogance.

 

[SheWolf]

Recently we've begun to see Christian friends here in Arizona question their rabid, maniacal support for Trump. I'm not saying they've dumped Trump. We do have friends from my wife's church, however, who have begun to question how much Christianity they have to give up to be a Trump supporter.

In the deep South where I grew up, where my family has lived since the early 1700s and where 99% of my family lives today there doesn't seem to be a conflict between Jesus and Trump. Most, not all, of my family and friends in Dixie somehow see Jesus and Trump as very compatible. Even though Trump's proposed policies will hurt the people of the Southland as much or more than the rest of America Dixie Christians are still on board. Maybe Southern churches are de-emphasizing select lessons Jesus taught when they conflict with Trump's plans for the nation and the world. I couldn't tell you.



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Source

Since you know so many Christians, is it true that the only reason they go Republican is because of abortion and gay rights issues?

 

[SheWolf]

If anyone wants to really see this phenomenon in action, simply Google "Trump + God or Christ".

You'll see a plethora of religious sites claiming Trump is an instrument of God, and one must vote for and accept Trump in order to be saved.

Thank God I'm a Catholic, because The Church has a strict policy of 'no politics' from the altar!

Now that I think of it, I have seen some posts in my FB feed for some reason... I get photos like the one below.

I just laughed it off as a joke, then I realized people were being very serious about it in the comments. It is very weird to me, because he doesn't seem very religious or godly.

 

[SheWolf]

Ok.

I never said Trump was a Christian. I've openly doubted, on DP, that most politicians are authentic and practicing Christians, no matter their public persona.

Now here's a problem: you're criticizing Christians for voting for a non-Christian, at the same time as you're protesting Christian influence in government.

Um, make up your mind, the two are not all that compatible....



As for the link.... I found it biased and unhelpful. The author is clearly more left than right politically, more of a theological liberal than evangelical or conservative, based on his expressed views and attitude. I found it to be just more of the same old crap, leftists trying to shame Christians for voting Trump in an election where our choices were Heathen#1 or Heathen#2.

I don't think he is criticizing Christians for voting for a non-Christian necessarily. Trump aside, statistically, the more Christian a person is the more likely they are to identify as a Republican. With a candidate like Trump, you might think that maybe Christians would have a little bit problem in the moral sense. It's not simply that he is a non Christian. What I am about to say, might be offensive, IDK, I sometimes question if, as a whole, American Christians are following the core values of the faith more or less than they are following the modern political Christian movement of the Republican Party. I do think that political parties are like religion onto themselves for both the left and right. When I find a person who 100% agrees with either party, I tend to think that they aren't thinking for themselves. When I see Christian 100% aligned with the GOP, I wonder if the person is actually a Republican over being a Christian.

So I think the OP is actually trying to get at this question; would the majority Christians ever have have a moral dilemma voting GOP, or if they are just following a political party some reason, maybe a simple reason like the party platform is that abortion is wrong?

Some of us a having trouble understanding the Christian perspective on this.

 

[Josie]

Now that I think of it, I have seen some posts in my FB feed for some reason... I get photos like the one below.

I just laughed it off as a joke, then I realized people were being very serious about it in the comments. It is very weird to me, because he doesn't seem very religious or godly.

Because he's not ... like, at all.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Since you know so many Christians, is it true that the only reason they go Republican is because of abortion and gay rights issues?

Good question. It is doubtful, however, that I know more Christians than you. To be honest, beyond family I rarely initiate religious or political conversations and even then I generally avoid it.

To answer your question, I know many Christians who are not opposed to gay rights. Abortion is probably a bit more dodgy. Seems to me most people avoid the subject publicly, even among friends and family. Nothing can ruin a good dinner out with friends than a conversation about abortion. I'm pro-choice. Whatever someone personally wants to do in terms of abortion is that person's or couple's business. That is my opinion. I try to avoid the topic.

Being anti-abortion or pro-abortion is no more a Christian position than it is a Buddhist position.

In my experience most anti-gay and pro-life religious people in the US are Christians. That doesn't mean that all Christians are. I suspect more Christians are gay supportive and/or pro-choice than will admit it. There is probably a lot of pressure to at least conform publicly. At the same time, I do know Buddhists who are pro-life. I don't know any who are anti-gay and it would be IMHO in direct conflict with what the Buddha taught but I wouldn't be surprised to find that there are anti-gay Buddhists.

Judging from what we see on DP I would venture to guess that most conservatives are Christians and most conservatives are Republicans.

 

[SheWolf]

Because he's not ... like, at all.

The other poster is right that there are people saying Trump is a instrument of God, and believe he is basically doing God's work in the white house. I have seen it online myself to some extent.

 

[Josie]

The other poster is right that there are people saying Trump is a instrument of God, and believe he is basically doing God's work in the white house. I have seen it online myself to some extent.

I've seen and heard several people say this. It makes zero sense.

 

[Josie]

Since you know so many Christians, is it true that the only reason they go Republican is because of abortion and gay rights issues?

I think that's a narrow view. Traditionally, Republicans have been the party that's very conservative on social issues -- very much up a devout Christian's alley. But that's not all. Support of the Jewish people, personal responsibility, spending within your means (which we all know is a laugh with Republicans nowadays), pro-2nd amendment are just a few more reasons that devout Christians are generally Republican.

 

[Risky Thicket]

I don't think he is criticizing Christians for voting for a non-Christian necessarily. Trump aside, statistically, the more Christian a person is the more likely they are to identify as a Republican. With a candidate like Trump, you might think that maybe Christians would have a little bit problem in the moral sense. It's not simply that he is a non Christian. What I am about to say, might be offensive, IDK, I sometimes question if, as a whole, American Christians are following the core values of the faith more or less than they are following the modern political Christian movement of the Republican Party. I do think that political parties are like religion onto themselves for both the left and right. When I find a person who 100% agrees with either party, I tend to think that they aren't thinking for themselves. When I see Christian 100% aligned with the GOP, I wonder if the person is actually a Republican over being a Christian.

So I think the OP is actually trying to get at this question; would the majority Christians ever have have a moral dilemma voting GOP, or if they are just following a political party some reason, maybe a simple reason like the party platform is that abortion is wrong?

Some of us a having trouble understanding the Christian perspective on this.

Bingo! You expressed my feelings exactly. We seem to be on the same page in that regard.

I remember not very long ago so many people here on DP who identified themselves as Christians were hyper critical of the Muslim population in general for not speaking out in unison to denounce ISIS or Islamic terrorists. I don't believe ISIS, for example, is anymore Islamic than the KKK is Christian.

It does appear that Christians have given or are giving Trump a pass and have thus as a rule not openly criticized his profession of faith as being gratuitous. We all know many fine people who are Christians in faith and in example. Trump by word and deed isn't one of them.

 

[calamity]

If my god told me to vote for Trump, I'd be looking for a new god.

 

[SheWolf]

I think that's a narrow view. Traditionally, Republicans have been the party that's very conservative on social issues -- very much up a devout Christian's alley. But that's not all. Support of the Jewish people, personal responsibility, spending within your means (which we all know is a laugh with Republicans nowadays), pro-2nd amendment are just a few more reasons that devout Christians are generally Republican.

A lot of this sounds like Republican Party platform IMO. Most glaringly, second amendment. How does that relate to Christian teachings? How does a balance government budget relate to Christian teachings? When I think of religious teachings about money, charity is the first thing that comes to mind.

We all know about the debate with the Democrats possibly being more generous to the poor. I don't want to have that debate, and I see them both as nothing more than political parities. I don't believe one party is more moral or closer to God than the other. It just leads back to the question, why are so many Christians staunch Republicans? Then throw Tump in there... why are so many Christians staunch Republican?

 

[Josie]

A lot of this sounds like Republican Party platform IMO. Most glaringly, second amendment. How does that relate to Christian teachings? How does a balance government budget relate to Christian teachings? When I think of religious teachings about money, charity is the first thing that comes to mind.

In terms of the 2nd amendment, I don't think it has much to do with religion but more about being allowed to hunt and protect your family if needed. The Bible speaks about money a lot -- not just giving to those in need, but about paying your debts too.

We all know about the debate with the Democrats possibly being more generous to the poor. I don't want to have that debate, and I see them both as nothing more than political parities.

Weird. I've heard the other way around.

I don't believe one party is more moral or closer to God than the other. It just leads back to the question, why are so many Christians staunch Republicans? Then throw Tump in there... why are so many Christians staunch Republican?

I just told you. What answer were you looking for? And, again, the Trump thing makes no sense. And many Christian Republicans despise Trump - and many who love Trump aren't Christians at all.

 

[SheWolf]

In terms of the 2nd amendment, I don't think it has much to do with religion but more about being allowed to hunt and protect your family if needed. The Bible speaks about money a lot -- not just giving to those in need, but about paying your debts too.



Weird. I've heard the other way around.


I just told you. What answer were you looking for? And, again, the Trump thing makes no sense. And many Christian Republicans despise Trump - and many who love Trump aren't Christians at all.

I am not really trying to get a answer. There is possibly no right or wrong answer. I just trying to have a discussion.

If I ask myself, "is the Democratic Party immoral?" I don't think it is. I think a Christian could justify voting Democrat with their Christian morals. Also, I am not saying Christians should vote any way.

It is just difficult for me to understand how any person of moral faith could be in 100% agreement with either party. I don't think such a belief system should be influenced or structured by a political parties, politics, or government. My religious beliefs maintain a lot of independence from my political beliefs. in some cases, I don't have strong political opinions... like assisted suicide. That's a serious moral no IMO, but I don't even feel comfortable touching it or debating it politically.

 

[Josie]

I am not really trying to get a answer. There is possibly no right or wrong answer. I just trying to have a discussion.

If I ask myself, "is the Democratic Party immoral?" I don't think it is. I think a Christian could justify voting Democrat with their Christian morals. Also, I am not saying Christians should vote any way.

It is just difficult for me to understand how any person of moral faith could be in 100% agreement with either party. I don't think such a belief system should be influenced or structured by a political parties, politics, or government. My religious beliefs maintain a lot of independence from my political beliefs. in some cases, I don't have strong political opinions... like assisted suicide. That's a serious moral no IMO, but I don't even feel comfortable touching it or debating it politically.

No party holds a monopoly on morality.

 

[calamity]

I am not really trying to get a answer. There is possibly no right or wrong answer. I just trying to have a discussion.

If I ask myself, "is the Democratic Party immoral?" I don't think it is. I think a Christian could justify voting Democrat with their Christian morals. Also, I am not saying Christians should vote any way.

It is just difficult for me to understand how any person of moral faith could be in 100% agreement with either party. I don't think such a belief system should be influenced or structured by a political parties, politics, or government. My religious beliefs maintain a lot of independence from my political beliefs. in some cases, I don't have strong political opinions... like assisted suicide. That's a serious moral no IMO, but I don't even feel comfortable touching it or debating it politically.

Basically the "Christians" turned against the D party due to abortion and homosexuality. "God don't like baby killers and homos," so the story goes.

Apparently starving kids and denying them healthcare is A-OK with the god dude though.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

I lived in Tennessee for about 5 years. During the Bush/Kerry election a church put up a sign that read 'Vote Right. Don't be left out' with bolded right/left in sign. I wonder if they thought that was subliminal:lol:

 

[Josie]

I lived in Tennessee for about 5 years. During the Bush/Kerry election a church put up a sign that read 'Vote Right. Don't be left out' with bolded right/left in sign. I wonder if they thought that was subliminal:lol:

Curious if you remember what denomination it was?