The Passion of Southern Christians

[Tanngrisnir]

Hardly. The most Biblically literate Christians are Baptists, Pentecostals, and Conservative Evangelicals (they typically call themselves Bible Believing). Those are the dominate sects in the South, and they read the Bible more than anyone.

No, most definitely. The most 'bible believers' simply don't know the bible. I find that Catholics know the bible far, FAR better than they do.

Southern Christians are by far the most Biblically literate of Christians.

Hilarious, but not even remotely true.

The problem is that you can get anything out of the Bible you want.

How is that a problem? Seriously.

As a side note, this notion that Jesus was not involved in politics is absurd. There was no difference between religion and politics in ancient Israel. The idea of a secular government would have been a foreign notion to them.

I really like mustard. Condiments rule.

 

[Risky Thicket]

I'm really surprised, and disappointed, that you chose to take this tack.


There are so many errors in this viewpoint I don't even know where to begin responding to them all. Maybe later.

In brief:
1. Gov't mandated welfare is not the same as personal charity, and Jesus taught the latter.
2. "Illegal" matters. Risk of Jihadi's matters. Jesus also taught respect for the law.
3. The main reason I voted Trump was the alternative was Hillary, TMK the most utterly corrupt individual to run in my lifetime, whose agenda included many items I was vehemently opposed to.
4. I've heard very few pastors or parishoners claiming Trump is a Godly man. I knew he wasn't. I had to deal with the choices available to me: bad and worse.

Here is a pastor from Charlotte who seems to me to have hit the nail on the head. I have to say that I don't know this pastor or know of him. I do like his post (see linked below).

Recently I have seen a number of situation where Christianity is slipping, purposely I would add, into government. Trump tacitly approves and seems to give license to it.

You well know, Goshin, that I have no truck with Christianity or Christians. It is a fine religion, though it is not mine. As I have said before, my entire family, extended family and almost all of my friends are Christians. We agree much more than we disagree and we respect each other. However, I do not want any religion in government. I would be just as adamant if Buddhists were attempting to manipulate Americans through levels of government control. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it.

Pastor John Pavlovitz - It's Time We Stopped Calling Donald Trump a Christian.

 

[Goshin]

Here is a pastor from Charlotte who seems to me to have hit the nail on the head. I have to say that I don't know this pastor or know of him. I do like his post (see linked below).

Recently I have seen a number of situation where Christianity is slipping, purposely I would add, into government. Trump tacitly approves and seems to give license to it.

You well know, Goshin, that I have no truck with Christianity or Christians. It is a fine religion, though it is not mine. As I have said before, my entire family, extended family and almost all of my friends are Christians. We agree much more than we disagree and we respect each other. However, I do not want any religion in government. I would be just as adamant if Buddhists were attempting to manipulate Americans through levels of government control. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it.

Pastor John Pavlovitz - It's Time We Stopped Calling Donald Trump a Christian.

Ok.

I never said Trump was a Christian. I've openly doubted, on DP, that most politicians are authentic and practicing Christians, no matter their public persona.

Now here's a problem: you're criticizing Christians for voting for a non-Christian, at the same time as you're protesting Christian influence in government.

Um, make up your mind, the two are not all that compatible....



As for the link.... I found it biased and unhelpful. The author is clearly more left than right politically, more of a theological liberal than evangelical or conservative, based on his expressed views and attitude. I found it to be just more of the same old crap, leftists trying to shame Christians for voting Trump in an election where our choices were Heathen#1 or Heathen#2.

 

[Absentglare]

Well, it helps to keep in mind that most self-described 'Christians', at least to my experience and especially in the South, don't know the bible.

As in, they literally are unfamiliar with the contents of the bible, the history of the bible, etc...

My experience is that they aren't always unfamiliar with the bible, but when they are, they have some explanation that miserably fails occam's razor. They have this interpretation of the bible that emphasizes some things, like that Sodom and Gomorrah is about prohibiting sexuality, but de-emphasizes others, like that menstruating women make everything they touch unclean and must bring two turtledoves to the tabernacle to be purified before the lord by her priest for the impurity of her bleeding.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

No, most definitely. The most 'bible believers' simply don't know the bible. I find that Catholics know the bible far, FAR better than they do.

Hilarious, but not even remotely true.

How is that a problem? Seriously.

I really like mustard. Condiments rule.

I grew up Catholic, went to Catholic school, the vast, vast, vast majority of Catholics don't read the Bible outside of the readings during Mass. Catholics don't study the Bible, they study the catechism.

In contrast, the average Southern Baptist would go to Bible study at least twice a week, usually times a week.

 

[CrabCake]

In contrast, the average Southern Baptist would go to Bible study at least twice a week, usually times a week.

That was true 30 years ago, not today. The latest statistics show that the average evangelical "regular attender" goes to church twice a month. I don't know the statistics for Southern Baptists specifically but they seem to write as many articles and blog posts about stopping this trend as other evangelicals do.

 

[EvaPeron]

Recently we've begun to see Christian friends here in Arizona question their rabid, maniacal support for Trump. I'm not saying they've dumped Trump. We do have friends from my wife's church, however, who have begun to question how much Christianity they have to give up to be a Trump supporter.

In the deep South where I grew up, where my family has lived since the early 1700s and where 99% of my family lives today there doesn't seem to be a conflict between Jesus and Trump. Most, not all, of my family and friends in Dixie somehow see Jesus and Trump as very compatible. Even though Trump's proposed policies will hurt the people of the Southland as much or more than the rest of America Dixie Christians are still on board. Maybe Southern churches are de-emphasizing select lessons Jesus taught when they conflict with Trump's plans for the nation and the world. I couldn't tell you.



[/FONT][/COLOR]
----



Source

First, I wonder if you refer to your friends in person as Dixie Southern Christians. I personally cannot speak for all those you seem to be speaking for, however, as a person from the south and someone who supports Trump and someone who considers them self a Christian, I'll tell you why I am on board with this President and his positions to date since taking office.

He gets it. He gets the problems that I get with regards to the direction our country has been headed. He understands that the absence of conflict does not make this world safe and in fact makes it less safe. He gets that America has an obligation to do something with regards to these nut cases around the globe who will bomb and kill their own citizens unfairly. He knows how business works and he makes good sense with regards to not spending money you don't have. He's not afraid to be different if it means doing what the people of this nation voted him into office to do. I like him because he does try and cross the line to get others parties to come together. He (unlike our last President) wants to help our people, not pit them against each other.

As for abortion, I think nothing with regards to roe v wade will change and I believe he does as well. But, he wants to put stop to abortions at will (partial birth abortions) tax payers paying for abortion. That was never what was intended by roe v wade.

I could go on and on but I know that you have already begun to find argument with every word I have typed. The point is, people hear what they want to hear. I feel confident that many of those Dixie Southern Christians (if not most/all) love what Trump has done for this country.

 

[_Sal]

I grew up Catholic, went to Catholic school, the vast, vast, vast majority of Catholics don't read the Bible outside of the readings during Mass. Catholics don't study the Bible, they study the catechism.

I agree with this but ironically Catholics do know the bible...they were taught the bible through stories and verse daily in school.

I grew up Catholic and I am thoroughly familiar with all aspects of the bible although I am no longer Christian.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

A half century ago. Before there was the inquisition, but I don't think we would attribute that m.o. to today's Church. But point taken.

Alright, good enough points to prove exceptions.

I'm an American Catholic, and from day one we've always been told through The Church and other sources that politics from the alter is strictly verboten. That's not to say ethical topics and events are not used, but that no support or detraction can be thrown at specific candidates or parties. And that's been my experience in the American Church.

So I'm happy to qualify my comment by limiting it to The American Church, and in the current time period. I'm also willing to concede there may be some rare exception, but I believe my comment is reasonably accurate in general.

And yes, it does seem the Pope is independent of this.

Well I'm a catholic as well, and it seems like they've gotten more political, now suddenly the church is supporting gun control, abolishing the death penalty, assisting illegal aliens breaking the law, and all kinds of things. They don't endorse candidates, but at least in my archdiocese churches you can read between the lines for an endorsement

 

[Absentglare]

Well I'm a catholic as well, and it seems like they've gotten more political, now suddenly the church is supporting gun control, abolishing the death penalty, assisting illegal aliens breaking the law, and all kinds of things. They don't endorse candidates, but at least in my archdiocese churches you can read between the lines for an endorsement

If abortion is in conflict with Christian values, the death penalty sure as **** should be.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

If abortion is in conflict with Christian values, the death penalty sure as **** should be.

The death penalty was applied frequently biblical times and in subsequent christian civilization

 

[_Sal]

If abortion is in conflict with Christian values, the death penalty sure as **** should be.

:lamo

that just struck me as hilarious because..........ya

how can some miss that conflict?

 

[Goshin]

:lamo

that just struck me as hilarious because..........ya

how can some miss that conflict?

Because one is about punishing the guilty who have committed murder, another is about ending an innocent life.


That people don't see the difference never fails to astound me.

 

[_Sal]

Because one is about punishing the guilty who have committed murder, another is about ending an innocent life.


That people don't see the difference never fails to astound me.

oh yeah the ending an innocent life argument

actually if you support the death penalty, then you support the possibility of ending an innocent life in order to punish a possible guilty person

not acceptable

EVER

 

[JayDubya]

oh yeah the ending an innocent life argument

actually if you support the death penalty, then you support the possibility of ending an innocent life in order to punish a possible guilty person

not acceptable

EVER

It's not acceptable ever to kill an innocent human being...

YOU are saying this?

... is this real life?

 

[Goshin]

oh yeah the ending an innocent life argument

actually if you support the death penalty, then you support the possibility of ending an innocent life in order to punish a possible guilty person

not acceptable

EVER

Actually I have recently decided to no longer support the death penalty, though I did for most of my life. The risk of executing an innocent person was one reason, and concerns about the State having the power to kill its citizens being another.

But IN PRINCIPLE I'm okay with the idea that murderers deserve to be killed.


Babies are unquestionably innocent.

The difference is profound.



But anyway that isn't the thread topic so I'm done...

 

[_Sal]

Actually I have recently decided to no longer support the death penalty, though I did for most of my life. The risk of executing an innocent person was one reason, and concerns about the State having the power to kill its citizens being another.

But IN PRINCIPLE I'm okay with the idea that murderers deserve to be killed.

me as well, to a degree but, the cost is prohibitive and the loss of an innocent not acceptable

Babies are unquestionably innocent.

babies? absolutely

babies are protected just like you and I so no problem there at all

 

[Absentglare]

The death penalty was applied frequently biblical times and in subsequent christian civilization

If killing someone is always wrong, war is wrong as well. My understanding is that Christianity tends to distinguish unlawful killing (murder) from lawful killing (war, execution). Though if legality is the standard, abortion meets it.

So i think we all agree there's not an absolute ban on killing, right? I'm not sure where the exceptions are defined. I don't even think abortion is mentioned.

 

[zyzygy]

The church does a lot to help the community and calls out anyone, regular attender or not, that's not pulling their weight.

What gives them the right to do that? It sounds like an infringement of civil liberty.

 

[DashingAmerican]

What gives them the right to do that? It sounds like an infringement of civil liberty.

Not sure how it's infringement of civil liberty? Everyone is there of their own free will.

 

[rhinefire]

Trump cannot govern without hairspray. it's the pastors hair that brings to light the true meaning of Christianity.

 

[Realitywins]

Recently we've begun to see Christian friends here in Arizona question their rabid, maniacal support for Trump. I'm not saying they've dumped Trump. We do have friends from my wife's church, however, who have begun to question how much Christianity they have to give up to be a Trump supporter.

In the deep South where I grew up, where my family has lived since the early 1700s and where 99% of my family lives today there doesn't seem to be a conflict between Jesus and Trump. Most, not all, of my family and friends in Dixie somehow see Jesus and Trump as very compatible. Even though Trump's proposed policies will hurt the people of the Southland as much or more than the rest of America Dixie Christians are still on board. Maybe Southern churches are de-emphasizing select lessons Jesus taught when they conflict with Trump's plans for the nation and the world. I couldn't tell you.



[/FONT][/COLOR]
----



Source

Considering the way many xians treat and think of women, Chump is representing them perfectly. Considering as well how it is primarily xians who hate gays, among other people, again Chump is a prefect representative. IOW you got what you deserve.

 

[zyzygy]

Not sure how it's infringement of civil liberty? Everyone is there of their own free will.

What gives a church the right to tell people how to live their lives? Calling out people who don't pull their weight regardless if they attend or not? It's none of that church's business.

 

[DashingAmerican]

What gives a church the right to tell people how to live their lives? Calling out people who don't pull their weight regardless if they attend or not? It's none of that church's business.

I'm going to have to slightly disagree with you here. If you're a member of the church and a Christian to boot, the church does have the right to give their opinion because they have advertised themselves as being Christian and that has/should have a certain area of responsibility with it.

 

[zyzygy]

I'm going to have to slightly disagree with you here. If you're a member of the church and a Christian to boot, the church does have the right to give their opinion because they have advertised themselves as being Christian and that has/should have a certain area of responsibility with it.

An opinion and others have the right to ignore it. I don't really understand your point about responsibility. Why should believing in a primitive superstition give a person the right to judge others? I leave that kind of thing to the police.