The natural attributes of private rights

[lwf]

Private rights are like everyone’s shield or last refuge. If the deprivation of private rights becomes a common phenomenon in a country, everyone in this country loses the most basic guarantee, and everyone's right to life becomes very fragile and vulnerable.

No argument here. I am very much in favor of private rights, but I can hardly compare a generation angry about a gross violation of basic human rights to their depriving a few business owners of their right to their property. Yes, these business owners have a right to their property and those destroying such property are criminals, but the losses suffered by these business owners are next to nothing compared to the losses suffered by the victims of police brutality that are being protested.

Put simply, there are criminals on both sides. Those who are guilty of destruction of property and get away with it due to the distraction of protests are far less heinous than those guilty of murder who get away with it due to their connections with law enforcement.

 

[Junzhuo Gu]

No argument here. I am very much in favor of private rights, but I can hardly compare a generation angry about a gross violation of basic human rights to their depriving a few business owners of their right to their property. Yes, these business owners have a right to their property and those destroying such property are criminals, but the losses suffered by these business owners are next to nothing compared to the losses suffered by the victims of police brutality that are being protested.

Put simply, there are criminals on both sides. Those who are guilty of destruction of property and get away with it due to the distraction of protests are far less heinous than those guilty of murder who get away with it due to their connections with law enforcement.

The fault of the police should not be the reason for robbery and wanton killing. The fault of the police can be resolved through the improvement of legislation and law enforcement. The American democratic system has this ability to correct errors, and it actually does so. We saw that President Trump soon signed a document to modify the police enforcement methods. However, the riots launched under this pretext threaten the American democratic system, subvert American values, and endanger the American Constitution. This is extremely dangerous and intolerable.

 

[lwf]

The fault of the police should not be the reason for robbery and wanton killing. The fault of the police can be resolved through the improvement of legislation and law enforcement. The American democratic system has this ability to correct errors, and it actually does so. We saw that President Trump soon signed a document to modify the police enforcement methods. However, the riots launched under this pretext threaten the American democratic system, subvert American values, and endanger the American Constitution. This is extremely dangerous and intolerable.

Hyperbole. Though I agree with the first part: Nothing gives rioters the right to rob and destroy property. I just find it hard to care as much about this as I do about systemic police brutality, which is far more dangerous to a democratic system than a few criminal rioters intermixed with mostly peaceful protesters exercising their first amendment rights.

 

[Junzhuo Gu]

Hyperbole. Though I agree with the first part: Nothing gives rioters the right to rob and destroy property. I just find it hard to care as much about this as I do about systemic police brutality, which is far more dangerous to a democratic system than a few criminal rioters intermixed with mostly peaceful protesters exercising their first amendment rights.

Both legislators and presidents in the United States are elected by the people, and they exercise the rights granted by American citizens. There is no reason why the law enforcement forces under such a democratic system completely endanger national rights. Unless law enforcement is not under the control of legislators and presidents. So what you said about the general and deliberate violation of civil rights by the police must be an exaggeration.
Riots are carried out in the name of the rights conferred by the First Amendment to the Constitution, but they are often carried out in a way that undermines the Constitution. And the Democratic Party supports the riots overtly and secretly, which is even more dangerous. The American people must cherish the American democratic system and love her like their own eyes. We in China suffer from dictatorship and autocracy, and we know the value of democracy. Moreover, once the riots get out of control, they will evolve into complete destruction of the Constitution. We have already seen the emergence of black armed organizations, demanding free access to land, and threatening to achieve their goals through force if the requirements are not met. This is a blatant challenge to the Constitution.

 

[Rich2018]

You don't need the right to private ownership to have basic human rights.

So the difference between "human" rights and "private" rights is that "human rights don't contain any rights of "ownership".

What does the right of "ownership", give you the right to own ?

 

[Rich2018]

《The Republic》 When discussing the defenders of the country in Chapter 5, it is believed that in order to defend the country wholeheartedly, the defenders should not have personal property. It also advocates that women and children should be shared among defenders.

"The Republic" is not a book of the Bible that I ever heard of

I asked you:

"Is there a list of "private rights" in your Bible ?"

To which you answered:

of course

So I asked for details of this claimed Biblical reference, by asking:

"What Book ?

Chapter & Verse ?"

 

[Jonsa]

Is there a list of "private rights" in your Bible ?

I'm also curious as I seemed to have missed 'em completely.

 

[Rich2018]

Private rights are like everyone’s shield or last refuge. If the deprivation of private rights becomes a common phenomenon in a country, everyone in this country loses the most basic guarantee, and everyone's right to life becomes very fragile and vulnerable.

Human rights are a whole, but this does not prevent us from dividing human rights into three major categories: economic rights, political rights, and life rights. Economic rights mainly include private rights, independent exchange rights and independent labor rights.[/quote]

So "human" rights includes to right of ownership ?

Where can I see a list of "economic rights", "political rights" and "life rights" ?

 

[lwf]

Both legislators and presidents in the United States are elected by the people, and they exercise the rights granted by American citizens. There is no reason why the law enforcement forces under such a democratic system completely endanger national rights. Unless law enforcement is not under the control of legislators and presidents. So what you said about the general and deliberate violation of civil rights by the police must be an exaggeration.
Riots are carried out in the name of the rights conferred by the First Amendment to the Constitution, but they are often carried out in a way that undermines the Constitution. And the Democratic Party supports the riots overtly and secretly, which is even more dangerous. The American people must cherish the American democratic system and love her like their own eyes. We in China suffer from dictatorship and autocracy, and we know the value of democracy. Moreover, once the riots get out of control, they will evolve into complete destruction of the Constitution. We have already seen the emergence of black armed organizations, demanding free access to land, and threatening to achieve their goals through force if the requirements are not met. This is a blatant challenge to the Constitution.

Law enforcement is under the control of legislators and presidents, but police officers who make lethal mistakes are protected by other police officers and the justice system is applied differently to them than to the people they are sworn to protect. This and this alone is what caused these protests. Anyone who doesn't want future protests that could lead to riots ought to take them seriously and vote to enact real change in the way law enforcement handles police brutality.

A vote for the party that has no desire to change the way justice is administered to police officers and advocates responding to social justice protests with violence is a vote for continued and worsening riots. Donald Trump has promised to meet these protesters with force, and has no plan to make any changes to law enforcement. As a Republican, it is clear that a Republican vote in 2020 is a vote for more of the same: protests leading to violent riots. Perhaps Democrats, who advocate justice reform and condemn violent government intervention, are the ones who can stop the riots and protect the constitution?

 

[lwf]

So the difference between "human" rights and "private" rights is that "human rights don't contain any rights of "ownership".

What does the right of "ownership", give you the right to own ?

Property

 

[Junzhuo Gu]

So the difference between "human" rights and "private" rights is that "human rights don't contain any rights of "ownership".

What does the right of "ownership", give you the right to own ?

I use the terms ownership\ property ownership,or private rights which have the same meaning, and all refer to the right of an individual to own his own property.
You lack a clear understanding of ownership{private rights} as an important aspect of human rights.

 

[Junzhuo Gu]

"The Republic" is not a book of the Bible that I ever heard of

I asked you:

"Is there a list of "private rights" in your Bible ?"

To which you answered:




So I asked for details of this claimed Biblical reference, by asking:

"What Book ?

Chapter & Verse ?"

What I mean is that assuming the Bible is written according to my wishes, I will definitely add content about private rights. Of course, the Bible does not have such content in reality, and there is no such Bible.

 

[Junzhuo Gu]

Human rights are a whole, but this does not prevent us from dividing human rights into three major categories: economic rights, political rights, and life rights. Economic rights mainly include private rights, independent exchange rights and independent labor rights.

So "human" rights includes to right of ownership ?

Where can I see a list of "economic rights", "political rights" and "life rights" ?[/QUOTE]
I think this is an obvious fact, and this classification is my opinion. If you have different ideas, I am willing to learn.

 

[Junzhuo Gu]

Law enforcement is under the control of legislators and presidents, but police officers who make lethal mistakes are protected by other police officers and the justice system is applied differently to them than to the people they are sworn to protect. This and this alone is what caused these protests. Anyone who doesn't want future protests that could lead to riots ought to take them seriously and vote to enact real change in the way law enforcement handles police brutality.

A vote for the party that has no desire to change the way justice is administered to police officers and advocates responding to social justice protests with violence is a vote for continued and worsening riots. Donald Trump has promised to meet these protesters with force, and has no plan to make any changes to law enforcement. As a Republican, it is clear that a Republican vote in 2020 is a vote for more of the same: protests leading to violent riots. Perhaps Democrats, who advocate justice reform and condemn violent government intervention, are the ones who can stop the riots and protect the constitution?

There are independent trial courts in the United States, and the police must be given a fair trial if they violate the law. There are many policemen on trial for faults in law enforcement. I don't think that the partiality of the police who make mistakes you mentioned is a common phenomenon. I don’t think that democracy is a good role in defending the US Constitution.

 

[Rich2018]

Property

But Junzhuo Gu said:

Human rights are a whole, but this does not prevent us from dividing human rights into three major categories: economic rights, political rights, and life rights. Economic rights mainly include private rights, independent exchange rights and independent labor rights.

So "human" rights include "economic" rights according to him - wouldn't this include property ?
Or are you saying he's wrong ?

Secondly, I dispute that you have the"right" to make a piece of land your own, put a fence around it and deny anyone access to it
Whist I accept you have the right to build your own house and the grounds it stands on (within reason) I dispute that you can "own" a mountain or 1,000 acres of beach.

 

[lwf]

There are independent trial courts in the United States, and the police must be given a fair trial if they violate the law. There are many policemen on trial for faults in law enforcement. I don't think that the partiality of the police who make mistakes you mentioned is a common phenomenon. I don’t think that democracy is a good role in defending the US Constitution.

It is not a common phenomenon, but the younger generation believes that it is not rare enough.

 

[lwf]

But Junzhuo Gu said:

Human rights are a whole, but this does not prevent us from dividing human rights into three major categories: economic rights, political rights, and life rights. Economic rights mainly include private rights, independent exchange rights and independent labor rights.

So "human" rights include "economic" rights according to him - wouldn't this include property ?
Or are you saying he's wrong ?

I don't understand the question. How does right of ownership referring to property make what he said wrong?

Secondly, I dispute that you have the"right" to make a piece of land your own, put a fence around it and deny anyone access to it
Whist I accept you have the right to build your own house and the grounds it stands on (within reason) I dispute that you can "own" a mountain or 1,000 acres of beach.

What is the precise size limit of land that you think is reasonable for a person to own?

 

[Rich2018]

I use the terms ownership\ property ownership,or private rights which have the same meaning, and all refer to the right of an individual to own his own property.
You lack a clear understanding of ownership{private rights} as an important aspect of human rights.

I dispute that anyone has the right to "own" land (other than for their living accomodation

See post #40

What I mean is that assuming the Bible is written according to my wishes, I will definitely add content about private rights. Of course, the Bible does not have such content in reality, and there is no such Bible.

So the Bible offers no list of "human" or "private" rights


It doesn't even state ANY rights at all. Obligations: yes; Rights: no

I think this is an obvious fact, and this classification is my opinion. If you have different ideas, I am willing to learn.

I dispute that it is a "fact" at all

If it were the case, you could show me a list of "economic rights", "political rights" and "life rights".

 

[Junzhuo Gu]

Law enforcement is under the control of legislators and presidents, but police officers who make lethal mistakes are protected by other police officers and the justice system is applied differently to them than to the people they are sworn to protect. This and this alone is what caused these protests. Anyone who doesn't want future protests that could lead to riots ought to take them seriously and vote to enact real change in the way law enforcement handles police brutality.

A vote for the party that has no desire to change the way justice is administered to police officers and advocates responding to social justice protests with violence is a vote for continued and worsening riots. Donald Trump has promised to meet these protesters with force, and has no plan to make any changes to law enforcement. As a Republican, it is clear that a Republican vote in 2020 is a vote for more of the same: protests leading to violent riots. Perhaps Democrats, who advocate justice reform and condemn violent government intervention, are the ones who can stop the riots and protect the constitution?

A democratic system is a good system. This requires you to have the wisdom to recognize the good of the democratic system. The democratic system may be imperfect, which requires your patience and your wisdom to work hard to improve the democratic system, do the right thing, or put forward your suggestions for improving the democratic system, and implement your imperfect amendments to the democratic system through democratic procedures. But the widespread riots like the current one do harm the democratic system.

 

[Rich2018]

I don't understand the question. How does right of ownership referring to property make what he said wrong?

I asked you how "private" rights differ from" human" rights
And you said"

property

So if I understood you right, you say the right to own property is a private right and not a human right

Whereas he seemed to say the opposite

What is the precise size limit of land that you think is reasonable for a person to own?

That which a reasonable man might say is "reasonable"


It would differ is you're living in Northern California or Alaska.
Here in Georgia a standard plot for a 3/4 bed house was 3/4 acres, it is less now as land is more scarce.

 

[Junzhuo Gu]

I dispute that anyone has the right to "own" land (other than for their living accomodation

See post #40




So the Bible offers no list of "human" or "private" rights


It doesn't even state ANY rights at all. Obligations: yes; Rights: no




I dispute that it is a "fact" at all

If it were the case, you could show me a list of "economic rights", "political rights" and "life rights".

I think you should know the answer better than me. At least as it should be for political rights. Because I have never really fully enjoyed political rights in China, and I am only a temporary guest in the United States.

 

[Junzhuo Gu]

I asked you how "private" rights differ from" human" rights
And you said"



So if I understood you right, you say the right to own property is a private right and not a human right

Whereas he seemed to say the opposite





That which a reasonable man might say is "reasonable"


It would differ is you're living in Northern California or Alaska.
Here in Georgia a standard plot for a 3/4 bed house was 3/4 acres, it is less now as land is more scarce.

Private rights are included in human rights

 

[Junzhuo Gu]

It is not a common phenomenon, but the younger generation believes that it is not rare enough.

It is necessary to educate young people to cherish the democratic system and its values.

 

[lwf]

It is necessary to educate young people to cherish the democratic system and its values.

Protesting is cherishing the values of a democratic system. Sending federal troops against peaceful protesters is not cherishing democratic values any more than the riots that result from it.

 

[Junzhuo Gu]

Protesting is cherishing the values of a democratic system. Sending federal troops against peaceful protesters is not cherishing democratic values any more than the riots that result from it.

If it is a peaceful protest, there should be no need to send federal forces to intervene. But what I see does not seem to be the case. Of course, there should also be laws to follow for the federal dispatch of forces to intervene.