The Latest: California vaccine exemption bill advances

[joko104]

Do any of you think that HIV positive children should not be allowed to attend regular public school since obviously they are a disease carried than can not be eliminated by vaccinations?

 

[OlNate]

One reason I hate PCism is because it is nearly entirely built about bigotries and declarations that are pure hypocrisy.

Who should most NOT be in public schools are children with compromised immune systems and certainly HIV positive children. They can not be vaccinated against many diseases. One bite, one accident that passed blood, and in many other ways and other diseases than just HIV put all children at risk.

BUT OMG! is that horrifically anti PCism! Can't have that! MUST allow THAT obvious risk to other children

But unvaccinated kids - who poise NO risk to vaccinated children - must be banned because progressive hate those people.

It isn't about risk factors. It is the question of who do you support and who do you hate - all as PC political questions. It has NOTHING do to with health.

And here we go...we've gone from ranting about liberals to ranting about vaccinations to now ranting about political correctness.

You sound under the weather, Joko. Maybe you should get a shot. :lol:

 

[OlNate]

they can home school.

as for a back and forth with you on this topic, it will almost certainly be fruitless. i've taken graduate level immunology (probably the most difficult course that i've ever taken,) and you've read woo woo blogs written by anti-vaxers. that's not really a foundation for a good discussion. i'll probably skip it, but thanks for calling.

:lamo

 

[OlNate]

Do any of you think that HIV positive children should not be allowed to attend regular public school since obviously they are a disease carried than can not be eliminated by vaccinations?

Do try to stay on topic in your own thread, joko. We're trying to help you work through your paranoia here. Stay with us... :lol:

Also, work on your sentences, you're getting difficult to read. HIV positive children area a disease carried? If this were at all on topic, I'd suggest trying again, but I think we're all better off forgetting this ever happened.

Next...………………………………. :lol:

 

[HenryChinaski]

Under house arrest / quarantine.

While wearing tin foil caps.

 

[Phys251]

Still waiting for you to prove that Democratic lawyer-politicans in California know so much more about diseases and healthcare than doctors and hospitals that you agree with them outlawing doctors and hospitals having any say over whether a vaccination is safe for a specific child.

Do you have a prayer closet to the Democratic Party?

You just don't get it, do you. You think you have the authority to dodge my critical questions of your own points while firing back with your own.

But I'll give you a chance to prove me wrong:

Let's suppose for the sake of argument that the anti-vaxxers are right, that vaccines are being peddled by so-called Big Pharma strictly in the name of profit. Typically you can get a measles vaccine out-of-pocket for under a hundred bucks. In our system of for-profit healthcare, do you have any idea how much that compares to treating the symptoms of the measles disease? In cases of hospitalizations, patients can easily owe thousands. Thousands.

Now why would "Big Pharma" peddle a vaccine that prevents measles in the overwhelming majority of cases and thus denies them from extracting thousands of dollars from individual patients?

 

[noonereal]

People should look at this very hard as this is what socializing the healthcare system will bring. You won't be diagnosed by doctors. Neither you nor doctors will make your healthcare decisions. Government bureaucratic hacks will make your healthcare decisions based upon whatever political and social agenda they want to push.
.

Still with the sky is falling crap?

Clue, even if this were true, which it is not as we have seen under Obamacare, ANYTHING is better than corporations deciding on what healthcare they will and will not allow, ANYTHING.

I wonder about people who make posts like you just did. WTF, dude?

 

[AGENT J]

Did you even read the article that you posted, Joko?



The goal is to keep anti-vaxxer parents from letting their children be a health risk to society. You would support that, wouldn't you?

AWESOME... i didnt know that was happening (doctors committing fraud and making up false exemptions) but im not surprised

anti-vaxxers rank right down there with flat-earthers, climate deniers and birthers

 

[joko104]

Of course adverse reactions can happen, more severe reactions are incredibly rare. I just took my son in for some immunizations and they ask you if your child is allergic or has bad reactions to any medications or vaccines.

This is like arguing with Young Earth Creationists who cherry pick some of the rare challenges that are encountered with carbon dating, to throw out all radiometric dating data. Surgery has risks, nearly every medical procedure has risks, but that is worth it for elimating serious illnesses across society.

People who reject vaccines are ruining the whole system for everyone, and then ignorantly proclaim that it demonstrates vaccines don't work.

What's the Mark Twain quote, its not what you don't know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so.

Good thing you are a medical expert who could accurately diagnose your child in relation to allergies. Where did you get your medical degree?

 

[joko104]

You just don't get it, do you. You think you have the authority to dodge my critical questions of your own points while firing back with your own.

But I'll give you a chance to prove me wrong:

Let's suppose for the sake of argument that the anti-vaxxers are right, that vaccines are being peddled by so-called Big Pharma strictly in the name of profit. Typically you can get a measles vaccine out-of-pocket for under a hundred bucks. In our system of for-profit healthcare, do you have any idea how much that compares to treating the symptoms of the measles disease? In cases of hospitalizations, patients can easily owe thousands. Thousands.

Now why would "Big Pharma" peddle a vaccine that prevents measles in the overwhelming majority of cases and thus denies them from extracting thousands of dollars from individual patients?

Different companies make different drugs.

Second, which would you prefer as a business:
1. The government requiring EVERYONE buy your product - AND you are legally protected from any liabilities - hundreds of millions of customers or

2. To have a thousand customers a year - and all of them can sue your company?

 

[joko104]

This thread shows the danger of socialized medicine. There is no discussion, only government worship mob mentality about the herd - all individually banned. Certainly NO discussion allowed. Have I ever posted I oppose vaccinations? Not once. Never.

Discussion is never allowed in mob mentality socialism. I asked:

"Have you had all USA vaccinations?" Answer: "I REFUSE to answer. You're an anti-vaxxer!!"

"Do you have anything to support infecting babies with multiple immunization diseases at the same time?
Answer: "I REFUSE TO DISCUSS IT. You're an anti-vaxxer!!"

"Why do you claim politicians and bureaucrats know more about diseases than doctors and hospitals?"
Answer: "I refuse to discuss it. You're an anti-vaxxer!!"

This is what comes with socialized medicine. You. Your children. No one individual exists anymore. You're just #147,521,338 of a herd of 329,000,000. It is irrelevant if you live or die. All that matters is herd management efficiency plugged into current political correctness. Any difference of opinion - or even questioning anything government does - is so intolerable you should be imprisoned for it.

Socialists hate individual rights because personal freedom is the antithesis of socialism. Everyone needs a god. For most progressive atheists, that god is government, though most also worship the super rich.

 

[joko104]

AWESOME... i didnt know that was happening (doctors committing fraud and making up false exemptions) but im not surprised

anti-vaxxers rank right down there with flat-earthers, climate deniers and birthers

Well, at least you admit no one in government does anything fraudulent and false. Glad to see your unqualified support of President Trump and his administration. People who worship government is as worthwhile to debate as debating a rock. Neither have the ability to think, only the rock has a good excuse. Government worshipers are just lazyass nobodies by their own self description.

 

[AGENT J]

Well, at least you admit no one in government does anything fraudulent and false. Glad to see your unqualified support of President Trump and his administration. People who worship government is as worthwhile to debate as debating a rock. Neither have the ability to think, only the rock has a good excuse. Government worshipers are just lazyass nobodies by their own self description.

You must of quoted the wrong person because this nonsensical meltdown has nothing to do with my post lol

 

[joko104]

Still with the sky is falling crap?

Clue, even if this were true, which it is not as we have seen under Obamacare, ANYTHING is better than corporations deciding on what healthcare they will and will not allow, ANYTHING.

I wonder about people who make posts like you just did. WTF, dude?

Democrats in the California Senate are pursuing banning doctors from determining if their patient's health does not allow a particular vaccination, claiming doctors are evil and clerks in county offices are the real medical experts.

ObamaCare is a total fraud and was passed to shift indigent healthcare from the rich via property taxes to blue collar workers, and to erase the Reagan rule requiring medical care to the indigent by making lack of co-pay under ObamaCare justification to deny medical treatment.

ObamaCare NEVER had anything to do with healthcare for the poor. It was a massive tax break for the rich and a way to deny indigent healthcare to the poor.

 

[joko104]

You must of quoted the wrong person because this nonsensical meltdown has nothing to do with my post lol

Nope, you claimed government is truthful and doctors are liars. President Trump and his administration are government. Therefore, in your argument it is impossible he or they would ever do anything fraudulent or dishonest. That is your claim.

 

[iguanaman]

It is a joke. I don't want to risk my kid getting Autism. IMO it is completely a violation of one's freedom to be forcing people to get vaccinated, especially if vaccinations are dangerous!

But vaccinations are not dangerous and do not cause autism. What is dangerous is NOT getting your child protected from these deadly diseases.

 

[HenryChinaski]

Nope, you claimed government is truthful and doctors are liars. President Trump and his administration are government. Therefore, in your argument it is impossible he or they would ever do anything fraudulent or dishonest. That is your claim.

 

[joko104]

You just don't get it, do you. You think you have the authority to dodge my critical questions of your own points while firing back with your own.

But I'll give you a chance to prove me wrong:

Let's suppose for the sake of argument that the anti-vaxxers are right, that vaccines are being peddled by so-called Big Pharma strictly in the name of profit. Typically you can get a measles vaccine out-of-pocket for under a hundred bucks. In our system of for-profit healthcare, do you have any idea how much that compares to treating the symptoms of the measles disease? In cases of hospitalizations, patients can easily owe thousands. Thousands.

Now why would "Big Pharma" peddle a vaccine that prevents measles in the overwhelming majority of cases and thus denies them from extracting thousands of dollars from individual patients?

Different companies make different drugs.

Second, which would you prefer as a business:
1. The government requiring EVERYONE buy your product - AND you are legally protected from any liabilities - hundreds of millions of customers or

2. To have a thousand customers a year - and all of them can sue your company?

You still seem to have the mistaken view that I oppose vaccinations. I don't. I oppose stupidity and mindlessly being totally controlled - and even moreso about my children. There is no major contagious disease my children were not vaccinated against as a positive, conscious decision.

Over 50% of the population, including on our own doctor's advice, agree with our decision not to get flu vaccinations. I bet the California Democrats with this law will force every child to have flu vaccinations - which literally can not POSSIBLY be tested as it is only weeks at the most from when they are first created each year to injected into tens of millions of people.

 

[noonereal]

It is a joke. I don't want to risk my kid getting Autism. IMO it is completely a violation of one's freedom to be forcing people to get vaccinated, especially if vaccinations are dangerous!

I hope, for your sake, that this post was sarcastic.

 

[iguanaman]

This thread shows the danger of socialized medicine. There is no discussion, only government worship mob mentality about the herd - all individually banned. Certainly NO discussion allowed. Have I ever posted I oppose vaccinations? Not once. Never.

Discussion is never allowed in mob mentality socialism. I asked:

"Have you had all USA vaccinations?" Answer: "I REFUSE to answer. You're an anti-vaxxer!!"

"Do you have anything to support infecting babies with multiple immunization diseases at the same time?
Answer: "I REFUSE TO DISCUSS IT. You're an anti-vaxxer!!"

"Why do you claim politicians and bureaucrats know more about diseases than doctors and hospitals?"
Answer: "I refuse to discuss it. You're an anti-vaxxer!!"

This is what comes with socialized medicine. You. Your children. No one individual exists anymore. You're just #147,521,338 of a herd of 329,000,000. It is irrelevant if you live or die. All that matters is herd management efficiency plugged into current political correctness. Any difference of opinion - or even questioning anything government does - is so intolerable you should be imprisoned for it.

Socialists hate individual rights because personal freedom is the antithesis of socialism. Everyone needs a god. For most progressive atheists, that god is government, though most also worship the super rich.

When it comes to these diseases all of us are alike and we all risk death if we don't vaccinate. Personal freedom ends when you endanger others in your society by not vaccinating. Unless you live and stay on your own island for life you must comply with laws that protect others and your children.

 

[Northern Light]

Why are people so afraid of measles? You'd swear we were seeing the return of the bubonic plague.

There's research now showing that people who get measles as children are more protected against cancer later in life, but the same protection is not conferred by the vaccine. I find this very interesting and it speaks volumes to how certain pathogens train the effectiveness of our immune systems at an early age.

 

[AGENT J]

Nope, you claimed government is truthful and doctors are liars. President Trump and his administration are government. Therefore, in your argument it is impossible he or they would ever do anything fraudulent or dishonest. That is your claim.

See just like i said you quoted the wrong person cause i factually said none of that. I made no such claim or argument. Wow those lies was easy to destroy.

if you disagree simply quote me saying "government is truthful and doctors are liars" then quote the "argument" you claimed i made, thanks!

opcorn2:

 

[Northern Light]

Also, the pro/anti vax polarity created by the media is a smoke screen for mandated government "medicine".

We should all be concerned that the government is legislating itself the power to override right of medical refusal. We learned the consequences of that in the eugenics era.

 

[joko104]

Flu vaccinations ("influenza") are developed by monitoring pigs in China as pigs carry many human diseases including influenza - a constantly evolving disease. For the new strains of influenza they quick try to throw together a vaccination - generally calculating it will address 40% to 60% of new strains. Because the quantity needed is so massive, it is a race to make enough of this EXTREMELY profitable vaccination to be sold EVERY year.

The amount of time to do testing for side effects - short or long term? Absolutely none. Nor will any company make it unless the government assures they can sell it and the government assures legally they have no liability for anyone it may harm or kill.

Are flu shots safe? No one knows. There isn't even a way to know because within a year it all has to change again anyway.

 

[iguanaman]

Why are people so afraid of measles? You'd swear we were seeing the return of the bubonic plague.

There's research now showing that people who get measles as children are more protected against cancer later in life, but the same protection is not conferred by the vaccine. I find this very interesting and it speaks volumes to how certain pathogens train the effectiveness of our immune systems at an early age.

LOL That is ridiculous and I question that research. Vaccines work by training your immune system.