The Gun Control movement banks on dishonesty [W:103]

[Slingshot Bob]

So, I prove my point again.

 

[Black Dog]

Sorry, lifetime member of the NRA who deals in gun business and posts lying material like that?

This Is How the NRA Lies to Gun Owners About Obama’s Agenda – Mother Jones

Oh no! Someone at Mother Jones has an OPINION, that it's a lie. Obama did want a national gun registry.

Will the NRA?s Wayne LaPierre Ever Stop Lying?


The NRA lies repeatedly and habitually because the NRA works for the gun industry and as such, NRA members who post such crap as in the OP of this thread are also lying.

So, I prove my point again.

No you have shown they can lie, not that the OP is.

Both of those are indeed examples of lying, just like the articles I posted pointed out the obfuscating those for "gun safety" are doing. The problem is you are dismissing it out of hand with no evidence that it's not true. Considering the language being used recently, I would say it is indeed accurate.

So it boils down to who's lies do you want to believe?

 

[RedAkston]

Moderator's Warning:

Let's knock off the name calling and flaming a tad.

 

[RedAkston]

Since you have been utterly unable to credibly refute any of the facts that I continue to lay out in these discussions for your edification; and that of Turtledude, and since by your account, you know more than I do, I challenge you to credibly and with source material refute and prove wrong anything I've said on the subject of the OP being an absolute lie, OR that the second amendment is not unlimited, OR that an AR15 is a military Combat weapon etc etc.


Ga'head RedAkston- prove me wrong.

This is too easy:

Not really a credible source because it's Wikipedia but since it's there here you go - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_AR-15

The Colt AR-15 was introduced in 1964. It is a semi-automatic version of the United States military M16 rifle. The first version was the Colt AR-15 Sporter, in .223 Remington, with a 20 inch barrel and issued with 5-round magazines.[1] Colt continues to use the AR-15 trademark for its line semi-automatic AR-15 rifles that are marketed to civilian and law-enforcement customers. Over the decades, Colt has made many different types of AR-15 rifle and carbine models: including the AR-15, AR-15A2, AR-15A3, AR-15A4, and many other models.

The AR 15 is not a military combat weapon. The M16 is however and it is fully automatic whereas the AR 15 is not fully automatic. These are key differences which completely disprove your statement as nothing more than a lie.

But since Wikipedia isn't a credible source, let's look at some credible sources shall we?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-worst-mass-shooting/?utm_term=.7af693fd7874

Manufactured by dozens of companies nationwide, the ubiquitous synthetic and aluminum rifle, known as the AR-15, is a civilian variant of the military’s M-16 series of rifles and carbines.

Oops, this actually supports the Wikipedia article that it is a civilian weapon and not a military one.

I could go one and on but it took me all of about 2 minutes to provide two sources, one credible and one not so much, to point out that the AR 15 is not a military combat weapon.

 

[BretJ]

Just getting it on the record BretJ. You will of course not take heed and continue to bungle yor way loosing one argument after another and never being able to show credible thinking.

You can sleep well knowing it's on the record Jet. Your uberness is noted by everyone far and wide and your self worth still intact.

 

[Rucker61]

You can sleep well knowing it's on the record Jet. Your uberness is noted by everyone far and wide and your self worth still intact.

When does the war start so I can use my 14 round pistol magazines?

 

[BretJ]

When does the war start so I can use my 14 round pistol magazines?

Jet is at the point in his life that he believes he knows everything and is unwilling to learn anything.

 

[Winchester]

I have been saying this for years. and here is some more proof

Connecticut Rep. Esty Encourages Gun Control Trickery - LPP

According to the Connecticut Post, while speaking to an audience at a recent Pride Fund event Esty said they should never use the term “gun control” but always use the term “gun safety.” Talking about gun control immediately alienates approximately 15 percent of male voters.
PJ Media reported that Esty offered the advice to people who were advocating for tougher gun laws. They simply want to create the impression they’re talking about something else, but when it comes to genuine gun safety, there is only one side that teaches that, and it’s not the gun control crowd.



so when you hear crap like "gun safety" or "common sense" or "reasonable" gun laws you know its going to be more schemes to disarm you and rape your second amendment rights

Took em long enough to learn the lessons of Frank Luntz.

Franks republican playlist:

Here’s the list:

Never say/ Instead say:

1. Government / Washington

2. Privatization/Private Accounts / Personalization/Personal Accounts

3. Tax Reform / Tax Simplification

4. Inheritance/Estate Tax / The Death Tax

5. A Global Economy/Globalization/Capitalism/ Free Market Economy

6. Outsourcing/ Taxation, Regulation, Litigation, Innovation, Education

7. Undocumented Workers/ Illegal Aliens

8. Foreign Trade/ International Trade

9. Drilling for oil/ Exploring for energy

10. Tort Reform/ Lawsuit Abuse Reform

11. Trial Lawyer/ Personal Injury Lawyer

12. Corporate Transparency/ Corporate Accountability

13. School Choice/ Parental Choice/Equal Opportunity in Education

14. Healthcare “Choice”/ “The Right to Choose”

The Secret List Of 14 Words That Republicans Are Never Supposed To Use | PoliticusUSA's Archives

 

[jet57]

This is too easy:

Not really a credible source because it's Wikipedia but since it's there here you go - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_AR-15



The AR 15 is not a military combat weapon. The M16 is however and it is fully automatic whereas the AR 15 is not fully automatic. These are key differences which completely disprove your statement as nothing more than a lie.

But since Wikipedia isn't a credible source, let's look at some credible sources shall we?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-worst-mass-shooting/?utm_term=.7af693fd7874



Oops, this actually supports the Wikipedia article that it is a civilian weapon and not a military one.

I could go one and on but it took me all of about 2 minutes to provide two sources, one credible and one not so much, to point out that the AR 15 is not a military combat weapon.

Yeah very easy:

ArmaLite / Colt AR-15 Select-Fire Automatic Rifle

Nevertheless all was not lost for the future of the AR-10 for the US army continued its interest in the AR-10 and called for some revisions to the basic design. One of the major changes was the chambering of the smaller .223 Remington cartridge. The resulting rifle design was the AR-15 which formally appeared in 1958. Amidst financial troubles ArmaLite was forced to sell of its Ar-10 and Ar-15 designs to competing colt and Stoner himself eventually left ArmaLite in 1961. The AR-15 was eventually adopted in to the US Army as the well-known M-16 while Colt also took the rifle into the civilian market as the Colt AR-15…

Now you know why Wikipedia is not a credible source.

You should go on about it and do some real research on the subject so that you'll know what you're talking about.

The AR15 was originally designed as military combat weapon. I hope that's the last time I have to prove that.

 

[Rucker61]

Yeah very easy:

ArmaLite / Colt AR-15 Select-Fire Automatic Rifle



Now you know why Wikipedia is not a credible source.

You should go on about it and do some real research on the subject so that you'll know what you're talking about.

The AR15 was originally designed as military combat weapon. I hope that's the last time I have to prove that.

It's never been adopted as a military combat weapon, unlike firearms such as the M1 carbine or the M1911A1 pistol. Evidently the AR-15 is so inadequate as a weapon of war that not a single military ever decided to use it.

 

[jet57]

It's never been adopted as a military combat weapon, unlike firearms such as the M1 carbine or the M1911A1 pistol. Evidently the AR-15 is so inadequate as a weapon of war that not a single military ever decided to use it.

It was designed as a military combat weapon though -- wasn't it.

I said that it was and proved it once again -- didn't I.

 

[Rucker61]

View attachment 67219174

It was designed as a military combat weapon though -- wasn't it.

I said that it was and proved it once again -- didn't I.

You act as if that means something in a gun control forum -again.

 

[Slingshot Bob]

You act as if that means something in a gun control forum -again.

Well, I proved it because I said I did *mimics jet57* :roll:

 

[TurtleDude]

Took em long enough to learn the lessons of Frank Luntz.

Franks republican playlist:

Here’s the list:

Never say/ Instead say:

1. Government / Washington

2. Privatization/Private Accounts / Personalization/Personal Accounts

3. Tax Reform / Tax Simplification

4. Inheritance/Estate Tax / The Death Tax

5. A Global Economy/Globalization/Capitalism/ Free Market Economy

6. Outsourcing/ Taxation, Regulation, Litigation, Innovation, Education

7. Undocumented Workers/ Illegal Aliens

8. Foreign Trade/ International Trade

9. Drilling for oil/ Exploring for energy

10. Tort Reform/ Lawsuit Abuse Reform

11. Trial Lawyer/ Personal Injury Lawyer

12. Corporate Transparency/ Corporate Accountability

13. School Choice/ Parental Choice/Equal Opportunity in Education

14. Healthcare “Choice”/ “The Right to Choose”

The Secret List Of 14 Words That Republicans Are Never Supposed To Use | PoliticusUSA's Archives

the gun banner movement has been dishonest long before this play list you imposed in an effort to divert the topic, came about

 

[TurtleDude]

Well, I proved it because I said I did *mimics jet57* :roll:

Jet's never been able to articulate why "Being designed for the military" means it should be banned even if it was never USED by the military" and why his MI Carbine which was designed for and used (in the millions) by the military no longer matters.

 

[Winchester]

the gun banner movement has been dishonest long before this play list you imposed in an effort to divert the topic, came about

Wasn't trying to divert the topic, nor condone "dishonesty" just because the other guys do it too. Just surprised it's taken the banners so long to follow suit. Words matter when trying to persuade people to one's point of view and there is always a component of dishonesty involved when talking about politicians.

 

[TurtleDude]

Wasn't trying to divert the topic, nor condone "dishonesty" just because the other guys do it too. Just surprised it's taken the banners so long to follow suit. Words matter when trying to persuade people to one's point of view and there is always a component of dishonesty involved when talking about politicians.

the entire federal gun control scheme is based on dishonesty: that dishonesty being that "regulate trade among the states" somehow mean that congress could ban firearms or subject them to all sorts of restrictions despite "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
"

 

[lurchadams]

I have been saying this for years. and here is some more proof

Connecticut Rep. Esty Encourages Gun Control Trickery - LPP

According to the Connecticut Post, while speaking to an audience at a recent Pride Fund event Esty said they should never use the term “gun control” but always use the term “gun safety.” Talking about gun control immediately alienates approximately 15 percent of male voters.
PJ Media reported that Esty offered the advice to people who were advocating for tougher gun laws. They simply want to create the impression they’re talking about something else, but when it comes to genuine gun safety, there is only one side that teaches that, and it’s not the gun control crowd.



so when you hear crap like "gun safety" or "common sense" or "reasonable" gun laws you know its going to be more schemes to disarm you and rape your second amendment rights

Didn't the NRA stoke fear that Obama was going to take everyone's guns away? Didn't the firearm industry do better than ever over Obama's 8 years as a result? To say that people that want sensible gun laws are dishonest is dishonest in itself.

 

[TurtleDude]

Didn't the NRA stoke fear that Obama was going to take everyone's guns away? Didn't the firearm industry do better than ever over Obama's 8 years as a result? To say that people that want sensible gun laws are dishonest is dishonest in itself.

the reason why Obama couldn't take peoples guns away were two fold

Harry Reid didn't want to lose the senate and once the GOP got control, they killed gun control

we are well past sensible gun control. every harm you can do with a gun is illegal as is owning a gun if you are a felon, fugitive, domestic violence miscreant, adjudicated mentally incompetent, dishonorably discharged or even under indictment

 

[TurtleDude]

View attachment 67219174

It was designed as a military combat weapon though -- wasn't it.

I said that it was and proved it once again -- didn't I.

what relevance does that stupid claim have? the ones people buy today are not designed as military weapons. and yet you own an MI carbine which is exactly that same weapon that the US army used in three Wars

 

[RedAkston]

Yeah very easy:

ArmaLite / Colt AR-15 Select-Fire Automatic Rifle



Now you know why Wikipedia is not a credible source.

You should go on about it and do some real research on the subject so that you'll know what you're talking about.

The AR15 was originally designed as military combat weapon. I hope that's the last time I have to prove that.

Well if militaryfactory.com is now a credible source, I guess anything is a credible source. :roll:

I know you must be tired of me using your own words against you by now, but let's replay this entire exchange for all to see the dishonesty contained in jet57's posts.

Since you have been utterly unable to credibly refute any of the facts that I continue to lay out in these discussions for your edification; and that of Turtledude, and since by your account, you know more than I do, I challenge you to credibly and with source material refute and prove wrong anything I've said on the subject of the OP being an absolute lie, OR that the second amendment is not unlimited, OR that an AR15 is a military Combat weapon etc etc.


Ga'head RedAkston- prove me wrong.

You stated "an AR 15 is a military Combat weapon". I proved that it is in fact not a military combat weapon and never has been. So now you come back with

The AR15 was originally designed as military combat weapon. I hope that's the last time I have to prove that.

No one, at least that I've seen, has disputed that it was designed as a military combat weapon. Being designed as one and then being rejected by the same military it was designed for are two completely different things and everyone seems to be able to see that here but you. The fact is that the AR 15 is not used by the military and never has been. The M16, which is very similar and is a full auto weapon, is a military combat weapon.

You should go on about it and do some real research on the subject so that you'll know what you're talking about.

The irony of your post to me is clearly evident for all to see. For the next time you do some real research on this subject so that you'll know what you're talking about will be the first time.

Class dismissed...:lamo

 

[jet57]

You act as if that means something in a gun control forum -again.

I know that facts mean nothing in the gun control forum, but I put them out there anyway.

 

[jet57]

Well if militaryfactory.com is now a credible source, I guess anything is a credible source. :roll:

I know you must be tired of me using your own words against you by now, but let's replay this entire exchange for all to see the dishonesty contained in jet57's posts.



You stated "an AR 15 is a military Combat weapon". I proved that it is in fact not a military combat weapon and never has been. So now you come back with



No one, at least that I've seen, has disputed that it was designed as a military combat weapon. Being designed as one and then being rejected by the same military it was designed for are two completely different things and everyone seems to be able to see that here but you. The fact is that the AR 15 is not used by the military and never has been. The M16, which is very similar and is a full auto weapon, is a military combat weapon.



The irony of your post to me is clearly evident for all to see. For the next time you do some real research on this subject so that you'll know what you're talking about will be the first time.

Class dismissed...:lamo

You've all denied that it was designed as a military combat weapon.

The AR 15 is not a military combat weapon.

AR-15 Inventor'''s Family: It Was a Military Weapon | Time.com

Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47," the Stoner family told NBC News. "He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events."

The AR15 was designed as a military combat weapon dude. It as sold to the public after the adaptation of the M16.

 

[RedAkston]

You've all denied that it was designed as a military combat weapon.



AR-15 Inventor'''s Family: It Was a Military Weapon | Time.com




The AR15 was designed as a military combat weapon dude. It as sold to the public after the adaptation of the M16.

Try reading my post again - I agree it was designed as a military weapon. What you said and I disproved was something else entirely.

 

[Fenton Lum]

the gun banner movement has been dishonest long before this play list you imposed in an effort to divert the topic, came about

Look at your prototype (Frank Luntz's republican playlist) really now, the whole, "well yeah but yours side's dirtier than my side" has worn rather thin, don't you think?