The God Question

[tecoyah]

So you taste something and it's real?

Ayup...I went to a real store, bought a real box, added some real milk and ate some real cereal. I'm sure you have some kind of point with that question so get to it.

 

[Angel]

Ayup...I went to a real store, bought a real box, added some real milk and ate some real cereal. I'm sure you have some kind of point with that question so get to it.

And this series of reality judgments (taste, store, box, milk, cereal) are all based on your personal experience, yes? Your personal perceptions. Is this correct?

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Baloney. You haven't even read them and you claim they're biased. The bias is yours, and it's obvious.

Ok what is the gist of those books?

 

[Omega Man]

And this series of reality judgments (taste, store, box, milk, cereal) are all based on your personal experience, yes? Your personal perceptions. Is this correct?

I'd say they are more than his perceptions. He can take pictures of the stores, the box, the milk, and the cereal. And he can perform physical tests on the properties of the cereal itself which explain its taste.


OM

 

[tecoyah]

And this series of reality judgments (taste, store, box, milk, cereal) are all based on your personal experience, yes? Your personal perceptions. Is this correct?

Though this was indeed my experience, anyone can do the same on demand and millions do...they even have TV commercials with a tiger to get mommies to buy some for their kids. I take it your point is that God is also personal experience, thing is I cannot verify it and no one else can either....God is not available to the general public when they want some.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

You get it right in the first sentence of your post, then in the second sentence go off half-cocked like one of the confused atheists alluded to in my post.
Follow your first sentence to the truth of the matter, or spin your wheels with the rest of your atheist colleagues by falling back on the misunderstanding of the second sentence.

You admit that your belief system asserts that all gods are in fact the same god, yet you deny that, that god is the one that you believe in? It is impossible to believe that all gods are one god without believing in a god.

 

[Omega Man]

I take it your point is that God is also personal experience, thing is I cannot verify it and no one else can either....God is not available to the general public when they want some.

Nor does God register on apparatus used for measuring, checking, or material testing. Heck, they've even got equipment nowadays that captures thermal images of the wind (which many Christians love to use as an example).


OM

 

[Omega Man]

Religion and folktales suggest that man is to be punished for daring to get closer to God by building a skyscraper, yet incredibly we are not punished for building machines which allow us to breach our atmosphere and enter outer space. And yet still no sign of God (whatever it is that God is, if God is).


OM

 

[Daisy]

Religion and folktales suggest that man is to be punished for daring to get closer to God by building a skyscraper, yet incredibly we are not punished for building machines which allow us to breach our atmosphere and enter outer space. And yet still no sign of God (whatever it is that God is, if God is).


OM

"Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9

 

[Xelor]

The God Question

The God Question involves two propositions that must be distinguished in any discourse that aspires to clarity:

Proposition One

That God is.

Proposition Two

What God is.


Proposition One goes to the question of the existence of God.
Proposition Two goes to the question of the nature of God.

In discourse on The God Question, the conflation of Proposition One and Proposition Two should be avoided for the sake of clarity.
The conflation of Proposition One and Proposition Two makes for incoherence in discourse.
Much of contemporary discourse on The God Question is incoherent.

This thread is devoted to the philosophical exploration of the distinction between Proposition One and Proposition Two.

Members given to philosophical rumination are invited to comment or expatiate on this limited topic.
Members who do not understand the distinction are invited to ask questions about the distinction.
Members who neither understand the distinction nor wish to discuss it philosophically should read quietly in their seats.


Know Thyself.​

Red:
I'll tell you what's important: Nothing about proposition two matters unless and until proposition one is established unequivocally as true.

 

[Quag]

I believe that god is infinitesimally beyond man's knowing. Science like religion is our attempt to explain what we do not know. Both are corrupted by man with demands of absolute faith.

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So you believe God(s) just sprang up pout of nothing by chance.

 

[Quag]

Red:
I'll tell you what's important: Nothing about proposition two matters unless and until proposition one is established unequivocally as true.

I would say the reverse how do you prove the existence of something unless you know what it is?

 

[Omega Man]

"Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9

None of which undermines the contrast of quickly condemning ancients for daring to get closer to God by elevating themselves only hundreds of feet, versus no such swift justice meted out when elevating ourselves a couple hundred thousand miles.

And still we couldn't locate God.


OM

 

[Xelor]

I would say the reverse how do you prove the existence of something unless you know what it is?

Red:
I shall take the "red" text as your having so said.

 

[Quag]

Red:
I shall take the "red" text as your having so said.

 

[Eriech]

So you believe God(s) just sprang up pout of nothing by chance.

No, I know that god is infinate; no beginning no end.

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[Angel]

Though this was indeed my experience, anyone can do the same on demand and millions do...they even have TV commercials with a tiger to get mommies to buy some for their kids. I take it your point is that God is also personal experience, thing is I cannot verify it and no one else can either....God is not available to the general public when they want some.

How do you verify the reality delivered to you by way of your personal perceptions?

 

[Omega Man]

How do you verify the reality delivered to you by way of your personal perceptions?

Sight, smell, taste, touch, hearing, balance, pressure, temperature, pain, motion.


OM

 

[tecoyah]

How do you verify the reality delivered to you by way of your personal perceptions?

Because there is no other way to do so. I then check to see if others experience things as I do...basically I rely on peer review to verify experience as truth.

 

[Angel]

Because there is no other way to do so. I then check to see if others experience things as I do...basically I rely on peer review to verify experience as truth.

Yes, the through testimony of those who are also your experience by way of your personal perceptions.

 

[Angel]

You admit that your belief system asserts that all gods are in fact the same god, yet you deny that, that god is the one that you believe in? It is impossible to believe that all gods are one god without believing in a god.

When you ask about my belief, in the sense of faith, you're asking about one of the thousand names and descriptions -- and that would be the Christian account of What God is.
That God is, is not a matter of faith; it's a matter of reason and logic.

 

[Quag]

No, I know that god is infinate; no beginning no end.

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You may believe that but you dont know it

 

[tecoyah]

Yes, the through testimony of those who are also your experience by way of your personal perceptions.

In English please.

 

[RAMOSS]

No, I know that god is infinate; no beginning no end.

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And, how do you know that? If it is knowledge, you can show that knowledge to be true. How can you demonstrate to others that your claim is true?

 

[Angel]

Red:
I'll tell you what's important: Nothing about proposition two matters unless and until proposition one is established unequivocally as true.

From the atheist or agnostic point of view, this is true. Most theists, on the other hand, access One by way of Two.