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The God Question

Omega Man said:
I never said that the story had anything to do with worshipping or praising. Same as how we still don't worship or praise when we violate "heaven's" domain nowadays - nor are we punished for it. Strange, we go to "heaven" now, and there still is no biblical God.


OM
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Then don't pretend it was to get closer to God...it wasn't...they wanted to be like God...there is a huge difference...
 
Omega Man said:
No, what you're looking for is a way to frame a clever argument, similar to the time-honored Christian tactic of "how do you see the wind"; which now you can with modern testing equipment. Unfortunately the loaded-questions you offered were easily handled with logic.


OM
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Say what? This nonsense from you? Listen, we elect to converse with each other. If that's what you think I'm about, then keep away from me.
Peace out.
 
Omega Man said:
I think somebody once said something very similar while under the influence of peyote.


OM
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“Experience is not what happens to a man; it is what a man does with what happens to him.”― Aldous Huxley
 
Eriech said:
Thought "know" might trigger a few lol Have you ever been in love? If so how did you "know" ?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
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The 'know' you are in love is a different class that 'know' there is a god. One is a description of subjective feeling. The other is a claim for objective reality. So, show how you 'know' your claim is true. See if you can do so without argument from assertion.
 
tecoyah said:
Nor can we expect others to accept it without proof.
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I had a dream last night that I was walking on a beach in the moonlight. I know I had this dream. I can't offer you any "proof." But I know it as certainly as I know anything.
 
Angel said:
I had a dream last night that I was walking on a beach in the moonlight. I know I had this dream. I can't offer you any "proof." But I know it as certainly as I know anything.
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….Neat....so you have new unverifiable data. That is my point....all you are doing is telling stories as far as I am concerned. About God and your beachy dream...were there footprints?
 
tecoyah said:
….Neat....so you have new unverifiable data. That is my point....all you are doing is telling stories as far as I am concerned. About God and your beachy dream...were there footprints?
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Yes, as far as you're concerned. But I dreamed a dream last night. I'm certain of it. My certainty is not affected one least little bit by your skepticism.
 
Elvira said:
Then don't pretend it was to get closer to God...it wasn't...they wanted to be like God...there is a huge difference...
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Pettifogging. Semantics. None of which undermine the fact God apparently decided it's no longer in its best interest to punish humanity for reaching for the heavens. Apparently it was only worth punishing mankind when they elevated themselves a few hundred feet off the ground. Imagine what God would have done to humanity back then had they climbed mountains.


OM
 
Angel said:
Say what? This nonsense from you? Listen, we elect to converse with each other. If that's what you think I'm about, then keep away from me.
Peace out.
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That's not an insult, not in the least. I've engaged in the exchange of ideas long enough during the course of my life to discern when an argument is being framed. That's not a personal slight against you; we all do it from time to time.


OM
 
Omega Man said:
Pettifogging. Semantics. None of which undermine the fact God apparently decided it's no longer in its best interest to punish humanity for reaching for the heavens. Apparently it was only worth punishing mankind when they elevated themselves a few hundred feet off the ground. Imagine what God would have done to humanity back then had they climbed mountains.


OM
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One cannot understand the purposes of God without the help of God’s spirit, his invisible active force, which can influence and direct the mind...if you did not have this help, then the confusion of this world, its lack of faith and its spirit, which is in opposition to God, would overcome you, for “faith is not a possession of all people”...not that some are incapable of exercising this quality...many do not work to acquire it...1 Corinthians 2:11-16; 2 Thessalonians 3:2...
 
Angel said:
Yes, as far as you're concerned. But I dreamed a dream last night. I'm certain of it. My certainty is not affected one least little bit by your skepticism.
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And my skepticism is not even slightly diminished by your dreams. I am happy for you that you had a dream and have a God....I do not and am happy about that too.
 
Elvira said:
One cannot understand the purposes of God without the help of God’s spirit, his invisible active force, which can influence and direct the mind...if you did not have this help, then the confusion of this world, its lack of faith and its spirit, which is in opposition to God, would overcome you, for “faith is not a possession of all people”...not that some are incapable of exercising this quality...many do not work to acquire it...1 Corinthians 2:11-16; 2 Thessalonians 3:2...
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Whereas one is quite capable of understanding Iron Age myths set prior to the collapse of the Bronze Age.


OM
 
tecoyah said:
And my skepticism is not even slightly diminished by your dreams. I am happy for you that you had a dream and have a God....I do not and am happy about that too.
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Then we're both happy. My point, however, carries. There is such a thing as personal knowledge.
 
Omega Man said:
Whereas one is quite capable of understanding Iron Age myths set prior to the collapse of the Bronze Age.


OM
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Myths, yes...the deep things of God, no...
 
Angel said:
When you ask about my belief, in the sense of faith, you're asking about one of the thousand names and descriptions -- and that would be the Christian account of What God is.
That God is, is not a matter of faith; it's a matter of reason and logic.
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No your god is merely a myth, there is no logic is reason in it.
 
tecoyah said:
Nor can we expect others to accept it without proof.
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Well, that depends on the claim. Life would be really tedious if we had to provide proof for every single thing we did or saw to those not there.I

If I said I had lunch with my brother yesterday, you know that brothers exist and people eat lunch. My claim conforms to known reality, so there's no reason to doubt that I have a brother or ate lunch with him. It could be a lie, but there's no reason to think so. And there's no need for proof unless there was some strong need to verify, such as one of us needing an alibi.

BUT....if you knew my brother lives in the other side of the country, you would have reason to doubt, and consider my claim unlikely unless I could explain that I was there, or he here or us both somewhere else. and if that exp!a nation was reasonable, then again, no need for proof. But if I claimed that we had lunch in Pyongyang, you would rightfully doubt and need evidence to accept as true.

No personal experience can be verified by anyone else, but that doesn't mean they are all equally believable or unbelievable or that all unverified claims need proof to accept.
 
Angel said:
Then we're both happy. My point, however, carries. There is such a thing as personal knowledge.
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There are three basic components for knowledge that something is true:
  1. You have to believe that it's true.
  2. The belief has to be reasonable.
  3. It has to act be true.

So if you believe something is true, but the reasons for your belief are not reasonable, then it's not knowledge, even if it turns out you are right.

And likewise, even if your belief is reasonable, it's not knowledge unless it actually is true.

So you believe there is a God. We will assume your reasons for belief are reasonable, but unless you can somehow demonstrate actual existence (not just a conclusion based on reason, or feeling, etc) then you can't claim knowledge. (And I highly doubt I would find your beliefs reasonable)
 
Elvira said:
One cannot understand the purposes of God without the help of God’s spirit, his invisible active force, which can influence and direct the mind...if you did not have this help, then the confusion of this world, its lack of faith and its spirit, which is in opposition to God, would overcome you, for “faith is not a possession of all people”...not that some are incapable of exercising this quality...many do not work to acquire it...1 Corinthians 2:11-16; 2 Thessalonians 3:2...
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The trouble is that there are plenty of people who claim to understand the purpose of god, and quite often, they disagree with each other. It appears that people who claim they understand the purpose of God let their ego get in the way.
 
RAMOSS said:
The trouble is that there are plenty of people who claim to understand the purpose of god, and quite often, they disagree with each other. It appears that people who claim they understand the purpose of God let their ego get in the way.
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I agree with that...the true test is if, through clarifying what a scripture/scriptures mean/means, you are contradicting another scripture/scriptures, then your clarifying has to be wrong...prime example, trinitariarians attempting to explain the doctrine of the trinity...all scriptures do not harmonize...
 
pinqy said:
There are three basic components for knowledge that something is true:
  1. You have to believe that it's true.
  2. The belief has to be reasonable.
  3. It has to act be true.

So if you believe something is true, but the reasons for your belief are not reasonable, then it's not knowledge, even if it turns out you are right.

And likewise, even if your belief is reasonable, it's not knowledge unless it actually is true.

So you believe there is a God. We will assume your reasons for belief are reasonable, but unless you can somehow demonstrate actual existence (not just a conclusion based on reason, or feeling, etc) then you can't claim knowledge. (And I highly doubt I would find your beliefs reasonable)
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My belief is justified true belief, yes. Your scientific petticoats are showing with that demonstration business.
 
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