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**** the Founding Fathers

AlphaOmega said:
Oh yeah...you don't vote therefore you don't support anyone.
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I support American Ideals

If our citizenry has become broken, that would mean our political process is broken and therefore made vain

Is it possible to still be politically active, a Firebrand in politics without participating in a undermined and broken political system?

The answer sir is yes
 
Luther said:
I support American Ideals

If our citizenry has become broken, that would mean our political process is broken and therefore made vain

Is it possible to still be politically active, a Firebrand in politics without participating in a undermined and broken political system?

The answer sir is yes
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Sorry but if you dont vote then you quite literally do not support anyone or anything in America.
 
AlphaOmega said:
Sorry but if you dont vote then you quite literally do not support anyone or anything in America.
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And tell us, how has your voting done?

Take your time
 
Luther said:
And tell us, how has your voting done?

Take your time
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Its done great! Military is strengthened, Jobs are coming back, economy is soaring, my 401k is absolutely skyrocketing, fair trade is being enacted, dead terrorists, finally a President who wants a secure border which apparently you say you are for but refuse to support the one President who is actively doing something about it. Would you like more?
 
AlphaOmega said:
Its done great! Military is strengthened, Jobs are coming back, economy is soaring, my 401k is absolutely skyrocketing, fair trade is being enacted, dead terrorists, finally a President who wants a secure border which apparently you say you are for but refuse to support the one President who is actively doing something about it. Would you like more?
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Okay....

*Those who do not pay a Fed Income tax while others are FORCED to has increase under Trump/Gop Tax reform? Oh yes sir!

*We're 23 Trillion and GROWING in our National debt

*We're back to a 1 Trillion a year deficit(Obama era)

*We're at best 17th in the world in Education

*We have twice as mush legal immigration as we should have

*Did you know that we're on pace this fiscal year with 2015/2016 illegal immigration apprehensions? That sir was during the Obama era
 
gdgyva said:
think what you want....i am telling you that the PUBLIC dictates what politicians do....

those are facts....you can deny or twist them....but you cant change them
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Really? I'm the one doing the twisting??? LOL

Look, you can't have the eggs and the omelette - what is it, the lack of evidence, or the lack of political will? Because, you know, it's the latter. The evidence was absolutely there. You just want to stick your head in the sand and ignore it. With you all, it's like that idea of Trump shooting someone by day light on 5th Avenue... NO evidence will ever be sufficient; you'll always look the other way.

The funny thing is that there was even less political support for impeaching Bill Clinton who was wildly more popular than Trump, but when the shoe is on the other foot, the GOP found it perfectly justified to do it (fortunately, it failed in the Senate due to the two thirds rule).

By the way, John Bolton heard it directly from the horse's mouth, no hearsay needed, but the GOP didn't want him to repeat it to the entire American people. That's called a cover-up. No, the people saying that the case against the president was proven were NOT Never Trumpers... they were actually staunch Trump allies. Their bona fides in this regard actually probably made them courageous enough to say it, since they weren't Never Trumpers, so they said it with impunity. The one Never Trumper who said it too, Mitt Romney, immediately became a pariah...

For those allies to say "the House case was proven, the President did what they say he did, but I just don't think it's enough for removal so I'll vote to acquit" when the Framers absolutely designed the very impeachment device precisely to avoid a president with a debt of gratitude to foreign powers who them would jeopardize America's security, is a joke.

I mean, he wasn't accused of lying about a blowjob... he was accused of blackmailing a foreign power, one involved in an armed conflict with our biggest geopolitical enemy, one that if toppled by said geopolitical enemy would jeopardize the equilibrium of power in Europe (these things are what leads to huge wars) and he tried to withdraw from that foreign power military aid allocated by Congress (he simply doesn't have this power, thus the abuse of power accusation), and then if the extorted foreign power complied, he'd owe them a debt of gratitude and would cheat in a domestic re-election campaign with their help (which is illegal according to US electoral law - the idea that he "committed no crime" is a joke) for his personal gain in an illegal quid-pro-quo, but noooooooo, this is not an impeachable offense, according to these GOP senators who actually acknowledged that he had done it... Ample evidence, ample testimony from multiple people, direct and indirect... If this is not impeachable, then let's abolish the constitutional device of impeachment all together because nothing is. The funny thing is that Trump has already denied his denial. I posted a thread about him admitting now to things he previously said he didn't do (where is the witch hunt, then?) now that he knows he can do whatever with impunity.

There was this cartoon, with the GOP elephant looking at a dead guy bleeding from a gunshot wound under the 5th Avenue street sign, and behind the elephant is John Bolton, and the elephant says "Nobody saw anything, right?" And Bolton behind him says "I did", the elephant ignores him and says, "OK, nobody?" Bolton insists "I saw it, he shot him, I saw him doing it, clear as day" and the elephant never turns to Bolton, continues to have his back to Bolton, and keeps saying "OK, if nobody saw it, there is no sufficient evidence; nothing to see here folks, let's move on."

That's EXACTLY what happened in the impeachment trial in the Senate, and it is a low dirty shame, and this stain will be recorded in history books for eternity, the day when the rule of law was killed in this country, the day when the Framers' checks and balances that served us so well for more than 200 years died out, making of us an unbalanced executive-led Banana Republic where the president is above the law.

I find it rich that you know that if more people wanted him removed UNDER THE SAME FACTS the Senate should have voted to convict... So what you are saying is that because his propaganda machine is good enough and his cult of personality is such that followers won't believe in any wrongdoing by him no matter how explicit, he needs to stay above the law... again, that's exactly how Banana Republic dictatorships work. They have sham elections with cheating (check), the dictator can do whatever (check), and his blind supporters (check) and sycophants applaud him (check), and Congress is powerless (check).

Great, the GOP made of us, another Venezuela... Bravo, guys!
 
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Royal PITA said:
Agreed. Worse, we keep screwing it up by failing to hold our leaders to a higher standard and by condoning corruption. Instead most just point fingers and blame everyone but themselves.
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IMO, that is by design. 2 party, get the sheeple to finger point. Keep them divided. Then the 2 party system can run policy beneficial to the elites and the sheeple won't notice.
Ever notice how easy it is for an incumbent to win re-election? It is near impossible for them to lose.
Also, the congress critters have been yielding more and more power to the prez over the last 30+ yrs, so they don't have to hold a tough vote to put their money where their mouth is, so to speak.
They have eroded the balance of power for their own personal political gain.
 
Cynical said:
I agree, the more and more people who get into our country illegally the more we will become like those countries they come from.
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So the 'All Men are Created Equal', was just BS to them?
 
dairyair said:
So the 'All Men are Created Equal', was just BS to them?
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Yep, all men are created equal. The same rights we enjoy to live in our country as full citizens, they have to live in their countries as full citizens. However if we wanted to illegally immigrate there, we'd be violating their laws... similarly, If they wanted to illegally immigrate here, they'd be violating our laws... all equal.
 
dairyair said:
So the 'All Men are Created Equal', was just BS to them?
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So you would like to become more like Central America? Not all countries are created equal.
 
Luther said:
Well, lets start with this ?

1.1 million a year LEGAL immigration

23 TRILLION(and growing) in national debt

44% of Americans pay NO Fed income tax while others are FORCED to




Well, with the above still happening with your "Playing" you're kind of a "spectator " yourself wouldn't you say?




Again, with the above happening anyway, what ever you say!
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So you are upset that Senior Citizens on fixed retirement income aren't paying taxes.
Kids under 18 in school aren't paying taxes.
Students in College aren't paying taxes.

But workers who earn a paycheck have to pay taxes.
This is what upsets you?
 
cmoneal71 said:
Even if you write-in a candidate because you don't like the given choices, it's a vote for President. The write-in candidate won't win but at least you did vote.
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And a NO Vote is a vote of protest to the broken corrupt system.
Voting for Mickey Mouse is the same as a NO vote. So what's the difference of MM or just not voting?
 
gdgyva said:
whats the matter?

the truth hurt?

:2wave:

the definition of evidence is what the "everyone" thinks about it....not just your side of the aisle

so if you cant get independents and republicans to "think the same way" as your partisan leftist views, maybe it just isnt there

think on it....
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As an Independent. I was convinced getting caught trying to bribe a foreign gov't to go after a potential political rival as worthy of putting out of office.
 
Cynical said:
So you would like to become more like Central America? Not all countries are created equal.
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You can't answer the question?

The FF, TJ in particular? Said, 'All Men are Created Equal'.
You believe that to be BS?

It's a simple yes or no.
 
GreatNews2night said:
Yep, all men are created equal. The same rights we enjoy to live in our country as full citizens, they have to live in their countries as full citizens. However if we wanted to illegally immigrate there, we'd be violating their laws... similarly, If they wanted to illegally immigrate here, they'd be violating our laws... all equal.
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I can't recall anything about countries in the 'All Men are Created Equal'.
Can you point me to those words referencing countries?
Thanks in advance.
 
Luther said:
Okay....

*Those who do not pay a Fed Income tax while others are FORCED to has increase under Trump/Gop Tax reform? Oh yes sir!

*We're 23 Trillion and GROWING in our National debt

*We're back to a 1 Trillion a year deficit(Obama era)

*We're at best 17th in the world in Education

*We have twice as mush legal immigration as we should have

*Did you know that we're on pace this fiscal year with 2015/2016 illegal immigration apprehensions? That sir was during the Obama era
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So...do something about it. If you don't like who I vote for then that is too bad for you if you choose. ot to vote. I prefer that. It makes it much easier for me to get my way.
 
cmoneal71 said:
Yeah, technically a write-in vote is "in vain" but it's sort of a "f**k you" to all the candidates on the ballot and at least you can say you voted for President. Writing in "Mickey Mouse" for President is in vain but you're saying you think Mickey Mouse would be a better President than those listed.

I agree with the others that if you don't vote/write-in for President or some other elected position, you don't get to complain. You have an opportunity to pick someone so do it.
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Low and very low voter turn out also makes a statement.
Since MM will never win the election.
 
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