**** the Founding Fathers

[gulfman]

I would rather say our constitution needs and upgrade to 2.0. What was good two hundred and fifty years ago doesn't necessarily apply today. Law should be like a river, flowing and alive and always changing. Not written in stone for ages and ages.

They couldn't imagined abortion,gay and lesbian rights,transgenders,food stamps and welfare back then

 

[AlphaOmega]

Well, I find it more intriguing why you do?

I still vote for a local election if I think it would have a chance

If you don't vote for Presidents then you don't have anything to complain about if you don't like the outcome.

 

[Rexedgar]

They couldn't imagined abortion,gay and lesbian rights,transgenders,food stamps and welfare back then

Scarlet Letters: Getting the History of Abortion and Contraception Right - Center for American Progress

Johann Hari: the hidden history of homosexuality in the US | The Independent

Social Welfare History Project Poor Relief in the Early America


Crack a book or a link..........

 

[Perotista]

If they were so smart, how come they didn’t foresee where the US finds itself today?


Tired of hearing about the FF and what they meant........

We're where we are at today because of political parties. The framers, founding fathers called political parties factions. They were afraid once political parties were formed, it would become for the good of the political party, not the nation. Loyalty to party, not country. They envision candidates running on their own merits with only the good of the country in their hearts.

Today, because of the polarization and ultra high partisanship, Republicans automatically oppose anything the democrats propose, the Democrats automatically oppose anything Republican. Both are only looking out for themselves with no thought as to the merits of any proposal, just who proposed it.

 

[bongsaway]

They couldn't imagined abortion,gay and lesbian rights,transgenders,food stamps and welfare back then

And oddly enough all of those things you mention, republicans can't imagine today either.

 

[Luther]

If you don't vote for Presidents then you don't have anything to complain about if you don't like the outcome.

Wrong sir....


As an American, I can complain any time I want to

It's one of those "God Given rights" kind of things.....

Even pre constitution

 

[gdgyva]

They did. But the mechanisms they set into place to prevent a slide into a dictatorship (balance of powers, competition between branches, the Electoral College, impeachment etc) have a hard time stopping a mendacious authoritarian with no conscience and no shame, who has co-opted an entire political party.

has he?

or is this more crying from the left?

not saying that Trump is innocent...far from it...

but you all want him THROWN OUT of office....and that is a huge thing

and it takes more than what has been shown in any of the hearings....from Meuller, to the impeachment to make that happen

EVIDENCE is what it would take....and that has been lacking....and i dont want to hear WHY it was lacking

every investigation failed to produced enough evidence to oust him....period

so now, you have a chance in november....and i guess we will see based on the candidate you all select

 

[calamity]

has he?

or is this more crying from the left?

not saying that Trump is innocent...far from it...

but you all want him THROWN OUT of office....and that is a huge thing

and it takes more than what has been shown in any of the hearings....from Meuller, to the impeachment to make that happen

EVIDENCE is what it would take....and that has been lacking....and i dont want to hear WHY it was lacking

every investigation failed to produced enough evidence to oust him....period

so now, you have a chance in november....and i guess we will see based on the candidate you all select

Oh. My. ****ing. God. :doh

 

[AlphaOmega]

Wrong sir....


As an American, I can complain any time I want to

It's one of those "God Given rights" kind of things.....

Even pre constitution

Oh I never said you couldn't complain. I said you don't have anything to complain about. You are by definition a spectator, only those playing have things actual things to complain about.

 

[Samwise]

Oh I never said you couldn't complain. I said you don't have anything to complain about. You are by definition a spectator, only those playing have things actual things to complain about.

So only the actual players can complain about their game?

 

[Luther]

Oh I never said you couldn't complain. I said you don't have anything to complain about. You are by definition a spectator, only those playing have things actual things to complain about.

I said you don't have anything to complain about

Well, lets start with this ?

1.1 million a year LEGAL immigration

23 TRILLION(and growing) in national debt

44% of Americans pay NO Fed income tax while others are FORCED to

You are by definition a spectator

Well, with the above still happening with your "Playing" you're kind of a "spectator " yourself wouldn't you say?

only those playing have things actual things to complain about.

Again, with the above happening anyway, what ever you say!

 

[cmoneal71]

Well, I find it more intriguing why you do?

I still vote for a local election if I think it would have a chance

Even if you write-in a candidate because you don't like the given choices, it's a vote for President. The write-in candidate won't win but at least you did vote.

 

[Luther]

Even if you write-in a candidate because you don't like the given choices, it's a vote for President. The write-in candidate won't win but at least you did vote.

So, why would I participate in that when it's in vain?

 

[gdgyva]

Oh. My. ****ing. God. :doh

whats the matter?

the truth hurt?

:2wave:

the definition of evidence is what the "everyone" thinks about it....not just your side of the aisle

so if you cant get independents and republicans to "think the same way" as your partisan leftist views, maybe it just isnt there

think on it....

 

[cmoneal71]

So, why would I participate in that when it's in vain?

Yeah, technically a write-in vote is "in vain" but it's sort of a "f**k you" to all the candidates on the ballot and at least you can say you voted for President. Writing in "Mickey Mouse" for President is in vain but you're saying you think Mickey Mouse would be a better President than those listed.

I agree with the others that if you don't vote/write-in for President or some other elected position, you don't get to complain. You have an opportunity to pick someone so do it.

 

[Luther]

Yeah, technically a write-in vote is "in vain" but it's sort of a "f**k you" to all the candidates on the ballot and at least you can say you voted for President. Writing in "Mickey Mouse" for President is in vain but you're saying you think Mickey Mouse would be a better President than those listed.

I agree with the others that if you don't vote/write-in for President or some other elected position, you don't get to complain. You have an opportunity to pick someone so do it.

Respectfully

Sorry, you simply don't have or understand AMERICANISM 101

you don't get to complain.

As an AMERICAN, I can voice my opinion/grievances anytime and anywhere

Why have we forgotten this simple fundamental thing I ask?

 

[Phys251]

Then explain what exactly you believe the forefathers had wrong. I don't see how having elections doesn't satisfy the left. Do you seriously expect that you should always be the winners in them? What is the iasue exactly?

Slavery, for one. They kicked that can down the road, a decision that ultimately resulted in the bloodiest war in US history.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Even if you write-in a candidate because you don't like the given choices, it's a vote for President. The write-in candidate won't win but at least you did vote.

Agreed. I think it’s a civic duty for every American to vote. I do not support forcing people to vote but I certainly encourage them to do so. Besides the Presidential election, there are numerous other elections and bills to vote upon, so it’s good to show upon on Election Day.

I’ve gone the “Vote for the Lesser of Two Evils” route far too many times and refuse to do it anymore. In 2016 I voted for the Libertarian candidate because I couldn’t hold my nose long enough to vote for two corrupt liars. Yes, Johnson was an idiot but I knew he wouldn’t win.

My voting Libertarian was multi-fold: It supported the Libertarian party which, IMO, could grow into the true successor of conservative values as the Republicans have sold their souls for avarice and authoritarianism. It took away percentage points from the “Lesser of Two Evils”.

If, out of 100 voters, only 60 vote and they vote for one of the two candidates; then the votes are split between them percentage-wise. The 40 voters who didn’t vote don’t count. If, OTOH, 10 of of those non-voters voted for a Third Party candidate, meaning 70 total with 30 each for the main candidates and 10 for a third candidate, then the percentage is divided 3 ways. As in 2016, neither of the main candidates will have 50% or more of the vote. Even with the 3M votes, Hillary only got 48.2% of the vote. More people voted against her than for her. Same for Trump, of course. That’s a significant point neither candidate can refute.

 

[VanceMack]

Scarlet Letters: Getting the History of Abortion and Contraception Right - Center for American Progress

Johann Hari: the hidden history of homosexuality in the US | The Independent

Social Welfare History Project Poor Relief in the Early America


Crack a book or a link..........

:lamo

1-you didnt 'crack a book...you ran to google to find articles to feed a confirmation bias.
2-Those articles are in no way near as supportive of your cause as you think they are.
2a-An article about puritans acceptance of some forms of abortion does not support the notion that the framers of the Constitution would foresee a day when we would have 800,000 babies slaughtered in any given year due to irresponsible choices
2b-The fact that homosexuality in some form has been in existence through lesser species and in some individuals throughout history has never been in dispute. And even your own sourced article (read a book indeed) states that while the French passed laws expressing more tolerance of homosexuality in the mid 1800s (AFTER the Constitution was written and ratified) that notion did not begin to find broad acceptance in the US until well into the 20th century.
2c-The Poor House was not welfare...certainly not welfare as we have it today. The Poorhouse was designed to take care of those that truly could not take care of themselves, AND specifically designed to ensure those that COULD work, did.

 

[JD1965]

You seem nice!

You seem like an operative!

 

[Manc Skipper]

If they were so smart, how come they didn’t foresee where the US finds itself today?


Tired of hearing about the FF and what they meant........

They did. First in the list of complaints in the Declaration of Independence.

"He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good."

That’s the first one.

McConnell anybody? 300 bipartisan bills refused. So far.

 

[AlphaOmega]

So only the actual players can complain about their game?

No you can complain but it meaningless. If you are too lazy to vote your complaints are worthless.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Well, lets start with this ?

1.1 million a year LEGAL immigration

23 TRILLION(and growing) in national debt

44% of Americans pay NO Fed income tax while others are FORCED to




Well, with the above still happening with your "Playing" you're kind of a "spectator " yourself wouldn't you say?




Again, with the above happening anyway, what ever you say!

Sorry but Im actually doing something about it by voting. You aren't. Your compmaints are meaningless. You care enough to complain but not enough to vote about it. Thats fascinating lazy.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Slavery, for one. They kicked that can down the road, a decision that ultimately resulted in the bloodiest war in US history.

And yet the constitution allowed its removal from our society.

 

[Luther]

Sorry but Im actually doing something about it by voting. You aren't. Your compmaints are meaningless. You care enough to complain but not enough to vote about it. Thats fascinating lazy.

And pray tell what are you and your voting doing for this?

Well, lets start with this ?

1.1 million a year LEGAL immigration

23 TRILLION(and growing) in national debt

44% of Americans pay NO Fed income tax while others are FORCED to

Your complaints are meaningless.

So was Patrick Henry's grievances in the beginning(wink)