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The Federalist Papers by ‘Publius’ (1788)

No sir. At least not entirely, and I am deeply thankful that is so.

Simple majority rule can be as tyrannical as any despot.

The classical example is two wolves and a sheep, voting on what to have for dinner.

A more modern example is if the 51% vote to pillage, plunder, rape and murder the other 49% and make it legal.



Our government was deliberately structured to put some roadblocks in between the fickle passions of the majority, and turning those passions-of-the-moment into law.


We have a Representative Democracy form of Limited Government, where the limiting documents are the Constitution and Bill of Rights, which are deliberately difficult to change.


Absent these limits, and the checks and balances built into them, we could easily fall into the tyranny of the majority which could be as great a horror as any despotism in the world.
Leave off the libertarian leaning lecture.

Yes, our representative democracy represents We the People. They and our judges decide how the guidelines of the Constitution will be enforced.
 
Can you cite any facts that support that?

Polling data regarding free speech and hate speech not being synonymous and the age bracket under 30 having the strongest feelings about that issue. There have been several polls about it recently.
 
Leave off the libertarian leaning lecture.

Yes, our representative democracy represents We the People. They and our judges decide how the guidelines of the Constitution will be enforced.

WOW.

The executive branch enforces. The judicial branch interprets the legality/constitutionality of the guidelines (laws) passed by the legislative branch.

No wonder you have no clue what's going on. You think the judicial branch makes guidelines and enforces something.
 
WOW. The executive branch enforces. The judicial branch interprets the legality/constitutionality of the guidelines (laws) passed by the legislative branch.
No wonder you have no clue what's going on. You think the judicial branch makes guidelines and enforces something.
You can run around in circles all you want. If the judge says you go left, you go left. If the judge says the law means this and will be enforced this way, then that is the way it is. The executive enforces nothing if the judge says no. You are lost.
 
You do realize that the price difference to wto has been mostly neutralized already by the currency move?

The British pound will be free to move in any manner that the country decides.

It had a relationship to the EU that varied between 0.7 and 0.95 (see that here, choose 2008/2017).

Which is a swing of around 30% (between 0.7 to the pound and 0.95 most recently) in the past decade. Currently the Euro is very close to equalling the pound.

Which means that markets are dumping it. We can talk all we want about the pound euro relationship - the markets have already decided for themselves.

They have been dumping the pound since the summer of last year.

Yes, when the Brexit referendum was held in June - the pound went from 0.77 to the euro down to 0.83 - which means British manufactured goods cost 7.8% more ...
 
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Well I'm glad to see you're not going to judgemental extremes or anything.

I'm sooooo happy for you and all the other Replicants in this forum.

When one blinds themselves to evident truths, it can only be the consequence of consummate stoopidity ...
 
So you have no understanding of the Constitution, or of its history, of the country's history. OK.

Cheap one-liner sarcasm, cheap shot in a debate.

Moving right along ...
 
Oh. There is no question that imposing tariffs is negative for the populations of both economies. That is why it is so off the wall that the EU elite wants to do it to its peoples.

More boring sarcasm ...
 
Showing what? You cite the democratic nature of the various European states and the EU. I point out that that nature is less democratic than the EC (or at least as democratic).

What's the counter argument? At least in that other exchange in this thread you made one.

Borrrrrinnngggg ...
 
I'm sooooo happy for you and all the other Replicants in this forum.

When one blinds themselves to evident truths, it can only be the consequence of consummate stoopidity ...



I have the comedy channel on cable if I want to hear lame one liners, so I think we're done here.
 
You can run around in circles all you want. If the judge says you go left, you go left. If the judge says the law means this and will be enforced this way, then that is the way it is. The executive enforces nothing if the judge says no. You are lost.

The executive has rebelled against judges. Happens all the time. Hell, Obama did it. As for a judge's ruling, the legislature can amend or pass a new law. You have zero understanding of checks and balances.
 
Polling data regarding free speech and hate speech not being synonymous and the age bracket under 30 having the strongest feelings about that issue. There have been several polls about it recently.
So you have nothing, why not just say so?
 
Thanks for a reasoned reply, it means a lot even if we totally disagree on the issue.

That it is consequential in protecting smaller States is visible by the result of the last election.
How can protection be meaningful when it is at the detriment of something else? What is it exactly that the smaller states need to be protected from especially in the light of the very tight interdependence of all the states in the union, something that really did not exist at the time of the founding?

I am very unhappy with this particular result.
Are you really? Is there a point at which you would say no? Is all the crap that Trump has said and done really meaningless for you?

Protection of the smaller States also has a socioeconomic level that I find relatively important.
Lets look at this differently. What realistic scenario can you envision where, because of the outcome of the election, any of the smaller states would suffer a bad consequence?

Democracy is so potent, because it collects information so deeply and widely and uses the information to make policy.
Indeed and it is great that the implementation of any policy does not happen at the whim of a simple majority.

There are also soft questions such as of legitimacy.
Or lack of it, depending on the issue.

When you have a very old and accepted constitution in place and change it, that implies that it was not as good as everyone thought.
Why would that be so, instead of simply making it relevant to the times and the core principle in it, that of self determination? Are we less entitled to that now than they were then? And as long as we are on "not as good" why dismiss the other changes that took place? Were those not subject to the same question?

It looses the weight of Motherhood and Apple Pie.
Or it makes it tastier.

Societies can overcome this and do.
Like all things, only those that can adapt to present conditions can survive.

But the effect is not easily calculable and remains a risk.
Risk is what produced everything humanity has achieved to date and while yes we did get it wrong at times and it did cost dearly to fix, it always cost more to fix that which was willfully ignored.

My suspicion is that the US Constitution could be altered to improve certain aspects of running the country.
Yes, in the careful process that was laid out for such change.

On the other hand, I am always loath to fix things that work
The horse and cart worked too, but we found better ways.

unless it can be shown that the innovation is strongly net positive.
Exactly.

And the US Constitution has worked rather well for a longer period than that of any democracy I can think of off hand.
With small episodes in which some people decided to ignore it for some expediency.

If a well used law works for a couple of hundred years, it implies a certain Darwinian stability. ;)
Dinosaurs were at the top of the food chain for a very long time too.
 
I have the comedy channel on cable if I want to hear lame one liners, so I think we're done here.

Abusive one-liner sarcasm, yet again. You're making a bad habit of them.

Moving right along ...
 
Protection of the smaller States also has a socioeconomic level that I find relatively important. Democracy is so potent, because it collects information so deeply and widely and uses the information to make policy. Not doing this well ist the weakness of command socioeconomic organisation.

You are prattling about something THAT DOES NOT EXIST in the EU. There is no "command socioeconomic organisation" that seems to be fruit of your imagination.

Name one bureau or office that has the right to impose upon all nations its desires. Any and all EU-community regulations are debated by the heads of state in meetings in order to obtain consensus. The process is agonizingly slow.

The only exception to that rule has been some eastern-states (Poland notably, run presently by a first class dork) that enjoy the economic comfort of the common-market but dislike accepting migrants. They are demonstrating the same totalitarian principles that they lived under when run by Communist governments. (And should be dealt with in a very special manner - like cutting off EU-fundings.)

The EU - contrary to your accusations - is about as democratic an alignment of nations as Europe has ever got. (Except perhaps under Charlemagne - and history teaches us what happened when his agglomeration fell apart. So did Europe with its warring nations.)

Europeans have far more to gain from the EU than they lose in terms of personal freedoms. And despite the Great Recession, imported from Uncle Sam in 2008/9, which the EU was wholly unprepared to address (due to high running debt), the total EU-economy is rebuilding itself gradually as the GDP-per-capita swells once again:
european-union-gdp-per-capita.png
 
Lafayette, my response was appropriate. I don't tolerate nonsense or rudeness in discussion, and I do as you: move right along.

One-liner sarcasm is a bad habit almost totally American in nature and a curse upon this forum.

Noting it and "moving right along" is the right-thing to do ...
 
You are prattling about something THAT DOES NOT EXIST in the EU. There is no "command socioeconomic organisation" that seems to be fruit of your imagination.

Name one bureau or office that has the right to impose upon all nations its desires. Any and all EU-community regulations are debated by the heads of state in meetings in order to obtain consensus. The process is agonizingly slow.

The only exception to that rule has been some eastern-states (Poland notably, run presently by a first class dork) that enjoy the economic comfort of the common-market but dislike accepting migrants. They are demonstrating the same totalitarian principles that they lived under when run by Communist governments. (And should be dealt with in a very special manner - like cutting off EU-fundings.)

The EU - contrary to your accusations - is about as democratic an alignment of nations as Europe has ever got. (Except perhaps under Charlemagne - and history teaches us what happened when his agglomeration fell apart. So did Europe with its warring nations.)

Europeans have far more to gain from the EU than they lose in terms of personal freedoms. And despite the Great Recession, imported from Uncle Sam in 2008/9, which the EU was wholly unprepared to address (due to high running debt), the total EU-economy is rebuilding itself gradually as the GDP-per-capita swells once again:
european-union-gdp-per-capita.png

You sure do slant your stories a lot even misusing words to fit your own narrative:

"(Poland notably, run presently by a first class dork) that enjoy the economic comfort of the common-market but dislike accepting migrants."

Poland doesn't dislike accepting migrants, they dislike accepting refugees. Sure there is plenty to debate with Poland, but a migrant is a worker who moves from place to place to do seasonal work.

"And despite the Great Recession, imported from Uncle Sam in 2008/9, which the EU was wholly unprepared to address"

Sure, plenty of bad actors in the mortgage crisis, but you give quite a pass to some of these bad actors:

BNP Paribas, France
Deutsche Bank, Germany
IKB Industriekredit-Bank, Germany
Sächsische Landesbank, Germany
UBS AG, Switzerland
Northern Rock, United Kingdom
HBOS, United Kingdom
Dexia, Belgium
Fortis, Benelux
Royal Bank of Scotland Group, United Kingdom
Lloyds Banking Group, United Kingdom
Glitnir, Iceland
Kaupthing Bank, Iceland
Landsbanki, Iceland
European Central Bank
Bank of Japan
Bank of England

I eagerly await your non-one-liner sarcasm in response.
 
That is truly sad. A failure of education in the least and lack of self determination.
Perhaps so in the abstract and certainly so in the minds of those who are older. However, the millennials as a whole prefer collaboration to individualism in work and policy making, mostly because of the development of information service and social media.
 
Perhaps so in the abstract and certainly so in the minds of those who are older. However, the millennials as a whole prefer collaboration to individualism in work and policy making, mostly because of the development of information service and social media.
I have no information to dispute that, nor do I particularly disagree. However, effective collaboration to work, it can not be to the detriment of someone, in this case abrogating individual freedom. If individuals are not free, they can not collaborate, only be forced to participate and accept.
 
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