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The Dark Secret of America’s WWII German Death Camps

If you were walking in the back alley, the fire could literally suck you into it through the house and you couldn’t do a thing about it.
So what?

That doesn't evidence the actual number of people killed, let alone the exaggerated estimates.

Quite apart from the fact that you didn't get sucked into any house, you got sucked down the road from as far away as 500 meters towards where the conflagration core was greatest.

I've spoken to people who survived it.
 
No one source. The refugee problems were huge. Massive. People sleeping in backyards. Anywhere. Less than 50 survivors from the city center.
Okay, you can't evidence your 300 k, I got it.
 
Alfons:

That the Western Allies created detainment camps in which former German soldiers, sailors, airmen and SS died is not in doubt. It happened and that is a matter of established fact in the West. What is in dispute is the scale of the death toll. James Bacques argued that between 800,000 and 1.2 million Germans died in camps run by Americans, British and French post-war authorities. Peer review of his research and arguments contained in his book, "Other Losses" found that he had grossly overstated his claims and had also tried to cast deaths caused by mismanagement and negligence as premeditated acts of killing on the part of the Western allies. It is true that many died but not the huge numbers which Bacques had argued for.

During the same period of time the Soviet Union was, with the explicit approval of the leaders of the Western allies, engaged in a truly massive programme of ethnic cleansing of Getman civilians from non-German lands in Eastern Europe. Between 11 and 14 million civilians of German ethnicity were forcibly removed from Eastern Europe and driven back west into Germany proper. There was no way that either ruined Germany nor the Western Allies could support such a wave of refugees and so widespread starvation and exposure both enroute and in Germany proper occurred. The deaths mounted and between 750,000 and 2,000,000 ethnic Germans died as a result of this massive programme of ethnic cleansing conducted by Soviet forces at all of the allies behests. One of the tools to drive these ethnic Germans (mostly women, children and males too old or too young for military service) out of the east was mass rape of women and that is why the behaviour is decried in the West as such a crime against humanity.

Post-war policy towards the Germans, both former military and civilians, was brutal and callous from both the Western Allies and the Soviets but in terms of the scale of death and suffering the Soviet actions exceeded Western crimes and mismanagement/negligence in scope and brutality. While generally discounted today, the deaths at the time were viewed as unavoidable and also as just consequences and justice for German militarism which had just killed about 60 million people between 1933 and 1945, the majority being Soviet solders and civilians and the Germans themselves. This vengeful mood passed in the West far more quickly than in the East, understandably given the far lower numbers of war dead, other casualties suffered and material destruction in the West. Plans like the vengeful Morgenthau plan were quickly abandoned and the very generous Marshall Plan was implemented to rebuild Europe and to try to give it some measure of long-term economic and political stability into which a culture of peace could be inculcated and entrenched.

So yes, the allies presided over policies which through mismanagement, negligence and design killed hundreds of thousands to millions of Germans in the post-war period and all allies share in the responsibility for those deaths and the attendent misery caused to survivors. The majority of these deaths can be attributed to Soviet actions, with the consent of the Western allies. But unlike in the East those policies were short-lived affairs and were soon reversed and replaced by more constructive and supportive policies in order to improve conditions in war-ravaged western Germany and in Western Europe, despite the crippling war-debt which most Western Allies found themselves in during the post-war period.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

More on this story. From Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinwiesenlager

Seems well written and possibly a valid explanation.
 
So what?

That doesn't evidence the actual number of people killed, let alone the exaggerated estimates.

Quite apart from the fact that you didn't get sucked into any house, you got sucked down the road from as far away as 500 meters towards where the conflagration core was greatest.

I've spoken to people who survived it.
now realize that most death tolls were far greater than reported. The CPK for instance and Uncle Hos accension. Each massacre was far under reported.
 
And your point at being in the street............your feet would’ve gotten stuck from the street melted under them.
 
now realize that most death tolls were far greater than reported. The CPK for instance and Uncle Hos accension. Each massacre was far under reported.
You've already confirmed that you have nothing by way of evidence for your figure. So you don't constantly have to repeat that.
 
And your point at being in the street............your feet would’ve gotten stuck from the street melted under them.
Yeah whatever.

Back alleys were presumably cooler so feet wouldn't have gotten stuck to prevent being sucked into the house.

Look, if you don't know what you're talking about to the point of contradicting yourself, why talk at all?
 
The question to forum: who was more human to Germans in after-war Germany: Sowjets who probably raped 100,000 german girls or US - soldiers who verifiable killed by starvation, cold and inhuman conditions millions of Germans.



https://allthatsinteresting.com/rheinwiesenlager

rheinwiesenlager-guard.jpg

Already debunked.
https://www.debatepolitics.com/hist...-germans-captured-armies-eisenhower-died.html
 
"Johann Schmuck" was as guilty as any SS officer. He enabled that SS officer.

I didn't admit anything. I bragged.

BS hyperbole. Less than a million Americans saw combat during the war. You assume because some old men wrote some laws that any soldier during combat gave a crap. Again, these men committed no war crimes, the war was over. Merely because what happened was purposefully omitted from the victor's history books, you have no knowledge, one way or another of what any men did during war and afterwards,

Any German who disappeared into the gulags, got what was deserved.

Have you ever talked to a German? They are perfectly normal people like you and me. Many POWs married into the countries where they were held, it did not matter what they did during the war. My family was friends with a former SS soldier who never even saw any combat and was just conscripted at the end of war and surrendered with the rest of the soldiers in Amsterdam to the Canadians, he liked them so much he later moved to Canada. Another was an American-born pilot for the Luftwaffe who flew captured American planes in order to blend in to escort formations, he was captured by the British and later married a British girl. They are not bad people that deserve to be slaughtered, they were fighting for their country just like any American.
 
Have you ever talked to a German? They are perfectly normal people like you and me. Many POWs married into the countries where they were held, it did not matter what they did during the war. My family was friends with a former SS soldier who never even saw any combat and was just conscripted at the end of war and surrendered with the rest of the soldiers in Amsterdam to the Canadians, he liked them so much he later moved to Canada. Another was an American-born pilot for the Luftwaffe who flew captured American planes in order to blend in to escort formations, he was captured by the British and later married a British girl. They are not bad people that deserve to be slaughtered, they were fighting for their country just like any American.

SS Officers rarely saw combat, they were at the camps.

I stand by my opinions. I don't forgive enemies. One of the benefits of not being Christian. Don't ever compare a german to me. In fact, don't compare yourself to me. Americans who fought for the Germans during the war when captured by Americans were shot for being traitors.
 
SS Officers rarely saw combat, they were at the camps.

I stand by my opinions. I don't forgive enemies. One of the benefits of not being Christian. Don't ever compare a german to me. In fact, don't compare yourself to me. Americans who fought for the Germans during the war when captured by Americans were shot for being traitors.

Frankly, given your bragging about your relatives committing war crimes, your defense of said war crimes, etc, etc, etc it sounds like you are every bit as bad as the worst of the Germans.

Not to mention, of course, that your claim that “SS officers rarely saw combat” is inaccurate; for example, SS tankers like Michael Wittman saw extensive combat.
 
SS Officers rarely saw combat, they were at the camps.

I stand by my opinions. I don't forgive enemies. One of the benefits of not being Christian. Don't ever compare a german to me. In fact, don't compare yourself to me. Americans who fought for the Germans during the war when captured by Americans were shot for being traitors.

Right, my mistake, they are not like you. They are better, more forgiving people.

Also he was a common soldier, just conscripted later in the war and ended up in the mass surrenders of cities like Paris and Amsterdam.
 
History is the accounting of what was. People are people. People...do things. Circumstances often help people do really bad things. Our job is to learn and to grow, and to be just one generation better than the last.
 
SS Officers rarely saw combat, they were at the camps.

I stand by my opinions. I don't forgive enemies. One of the benefits of not being Christian. Don't ever compare a german to me. In fact, don't compare yourself to me. Americans who fought for the Germans during the war when captured by Americans were shot for being traitors.

the SS were in two groups the Waffen SS were elite fighting units where the officers were expected to lead from the front and then their was the 2nd branch the Allgemeine SS who were prison guards and those germans that worked in factories dedicated to manufacture goods, munitions tanks etc for the Waffen SS and Allgemeine SS



and in regards to war crimes the western allies committed many against captured German prisoners killing them in cold blood after they had surrendered ... Eisenhower himself instructed soldiers to kill POWs if taking prisoners slowed down there advance many young germans were taken and executed by the british behind Sword Beach something they had good experience of doing in there colonies
 
SS Officers rarely saw combat, they were at the camps.

I stand by my opinions. I don't forgive enemies. One of the benefits of not being Christian. Don't ever compare a german to me. In fact, don't compare yourself to me. Americans who fought for the Germans during the war when captured by Americans were shot for being traitors.

Oh FFS...

SS Officers led SS Truppen in the Waffen SS which were involved in many of the fiercest battles of the war.

38 divisions by 1945..... Kinda hard to command an SS Division in the field from a camp.
 
the SS were in two groups the Waffen SS were elite fighting units where the officers were expected to lead from the front and then their was the 2nd branch the Allgemeine SS who were prison guards and those germans that worked in factories dedicated to manufacture goods, munitions tanks etc for the Waffen SS and Allgemeine SS



and in regards to war crimes the western allies committed many against captured German prisoners killing them in cold blood after they had surrendered ... Eisenhower himself instructed soldiers to kill POWs if taking prisoners slowed down there advance many young germans were taken and executed by the british behind Sword Beach something they had good experience of doing in there colonies

Let's see.... Battlefield deaths vs. The wholesale slaughter of towns and villages and the deaths of Jews by the millions...

Yep.

Allies and Germans were equal

(End sarcasm)
 
Let's see.... Battlefield deaths vs. The wholesale slaughter of towns and villages and the deaths of Jews by the millions...

Yep.

Allies and Germans were equal

(End sarcasm)

still war crimes to execute prisoners .... American's didn't like it when the 12th SS reciprocated at Malmedy ... and lets not forget the mass rape of French women by US troops in Normandy
 
Alfons,.......Churchill is the one not laughing in the picture Anthony Beavor indentifies was at Yalta when Joe said his soldiers would rape every German woman age 8 - 92.
 
still war crimes to execute prisoners .... American's didn't like it when the 12th SS reciprocated at Malmedy ... and lets not forget the mass rape of French women by US troops in Normandy

Malmedy happened because some prisoners just kept walking after they entered the field.
 
Frankly, given your bragging about your relatives committing war crimes, your defense of said war crimes, etc, etc, etc it sounds like you are every bit as bad as the worst of the Germans.

Not to mention, of course, that your claim that “SS officers rarely saw combat” is inaccurate; for example, SS tankers like Michael Wittman saw extensive combat.
Agreed.

SOme of the biggest Russian victories in the War other than the battle of Stalingrad was when they kicked Waffen SS ass in Finland, the Baltics and Northwestern Russia outside Leningrad.

Idiots came without winter clothes.
 
This thread is the precise reason I am loathe to get on web forums of any kind now days...
 
This thread is the precise reason I am loathe to get on web forums of any kind now days...

It's the downside of the internet. Every whackadoodle nutcase cause has a world-wide audience. Back in the Usenet days we called it 'eternal September' and it's been increasing exponentially since.
 
SS Officers rarely saw combat, they were at the camps.

I stand by my opinions. I don't forgive enemies. One of the benefits of not being Christian. Don't ever compare a german to me. In fact, don't compare yourself to me. Americans who fought for the Germans during the war when captured by Americans were shot for being traitors.

SS officers saw combat beside their troops. The Waffen-SS were combat troops. They were nasty bastards but to imply that they were just prison guards is to revise history to fit your prejudices. Lots of them were conscripts and volunteers from occupied territory, Ukraine for example, and they were guilty of horrible atrocities but they were combat troops nonetheless. In the west and the eastern fronts.
 
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still war crimes to execute prisoners .... American's didn't like it when the 12th SS reciprocated at Malmedy ... and lets not forget the mass rape of French women by US troops in Normandy

The 12th SS "reciprocated"? Reciprocated for what?

Oh. And you mean the mass rape of French women by German troops. And Polish women. And Dutch women. Belgian women. Probably more than a few Norwegian women. Greek women. The rape and later murder of Roma, Jew and Slav women.....

BTW - 900+ American soldiers were prosecuted for rape in Europe. 29 executed... Show us the comparable numbers for the Germans.
 
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