The Boy Who Cried Wolf, A Story the Progressive-Left Fails to Heed.

[Captain Adverse]

No.

…Debunked. Review the video.

This is the alleged "hack" section..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kxG8uJUsWU

Here is the complete version:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?41326...-hillary-clinton-emails-criticizes-record-tpp

He NEVER "exhorted the Russians to hack Hillary's email." That is a blatantly false interpretation of what he actually said.

In point of fact, his exact words were "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing."

He did not ask them to "Hack Hillary." The 30,000 email's referred to were already deleted from Hillary's private server...hence the "missing" emails.

It is a blatant misrepresentation of what he actually said, clearly in jest in any case, and a continued falsehood your side has been perpetuating.

The fact the GRU attempted a hack later is no evidence of anything. Correlation does not imply causation. :coffeepap:

 

[PLizzy]

No.



In point of fact, his exact words were "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing."

He did not ask them to "Hack Hillary." The 30000 email's referred to were already deleted from Hillary's private server...hence the "missing" emails.

It is a blatant misrepresentation of what he actually said, clearly in jest in any case, and a continued falsehood your side has been perpetuating.

Man, you guys are as pathological in your lying as Trump is.

We know form court fillings and other public information that Trump's circle believed that Russia had stolen emails form Clinton's server, and were willing to release them under the right conditions. This lead to several associates of Trump's campaign meeting with Russian officials again and again, hoping to find someone in their federations network that would just hand them over for free. Of course, these documents had to be forgeries, as there's no evidence Clinton's state department sever was ever hacked, but it shows there were multiple unsuccessful attempts by Trump's circle to convince the Russians to help them in the election.

The fact that all of this was going on behind the scenes, then Trump publicly asks Russia to release information his team were hotly pursuing, trips all kinds of alarm wires that he must have been aware of what his team were doing.

 

[HowardBThiname]

Just like in The Boy Who Cried Wolf, if something ever does show up, the townspeople will just ignore it because they have no reason to believe you anymore.

Many people, including myself, are already there. Hence our silence when a new Anti-Administration thread is posted in the Forum which becomes an echo-chamber for the wolf-criers. :coffeepap:

This.

I see this already happening in the general public, and not just to conservatives. While the alt-Left is still clinging to their wolf cries and conspiracy theories, and conservatives are still rolling their eyes, the interesting shift is coming from those citizens who lie at the center of the political scale -- the centrists. They are joining the conservatives in rolling their eyes.

Mueller's investigation has produced no link whatsoever between Trump and Russian collusion. The only charges levied against former Trump campaign persons are unrelated to the main reason for the investigation. These latest indictments are for show. None of the things the Russians are charged with anything that is beyond the reach of the typical Middle School hacker.

There's a little coffee shop in my community on Main Street and I'll pop in once a week or so if I have banking next door. There's a good mix of conservative/liberal types. Very few -- maybe no Progressives, though. And, I listen. The conversations are often political, and one theme has emerged from both sides -- they're tired of the attacks on Trump. This is Main Street America and I hear more and more folks express the sentiment that they don't even watch the news anymore.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Man, you guys are as pathological in your lying as Trump is.

We know form court fillings and other public information that Trump's circle believed that Russia had stolen emails form Clinton's server, and were willing to release them under the right conditions. This lead to several associates of Trump's campaign meeting with Russian officials again and again, hoping to find someone in their federations network that would just hand them over for free. Of course, these documents had to be forgeries, as there's no evidence Clinton's state department sever was ever hacked, but it shows there were multiple unsuccessful attempts by Trump's circle to convince the Russians to help them in the election.

The fact that all of this was going on behind the scenes, then Trump publicly asks Russia to release information his team were hotly pursuing, trips all kinds of alarm wires that he must have been aware of what his team were doing.

Again with the personal attacks? That's all your side depends on these days.

I provided the entire CSPAN interview in my post citation. The facts are clear; the 30,000 emails referred to were those previously deleted from Hillary's private server. There had been a report from the FBI that it was 99% likely her private server had been hacked by any one or more of 5 nations back when she was Secretary of State. Hence, the "Russia if you find them..."

The fact that your side ignores real facts, preferring to twist them and misrepresent them is one of the things I was referring to in this OP. Crying wolf where there is NO WOLF!

End of discussion.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Again with the personal attacks? That's all your side depends on these days.

I provided the entire CSPAN interview in my post citation. The facts are clear; the 30,000 emails referred to were those previously deleted from Hillary's private server. There had been a report from the FBI that it was 99% likely her private server had been hacked by any one or more of 5 nations back when she was Secretary of State. Hence, the "Russia if you find them..."

The fact that your side ignores real facts, preferring to twist them and misrepresent them is one of the things I was referring to in this OP. Crying wolf where there is NO WOLF!

End of discussion.

Hahaha, so pathetic. Your argument has basically degraded to "When Trump told Russia to find dirt on his opponent, he didn't mean they should hack them, maybe they could find her private emails laying on the side of the road or in Putin's desk! No hacking required!"

 

[PLizzy]

Again with the personal attacks? That's all your side depends on these days.

I provided the entire CSPAN interview in my post citation. The facts are clear; the 30,000 emails referred to were those previously deleted from Hillary's private server. There had been a report from the FBI that it was 99% likely her private server had been hacked by any one or more of 5 nations back when she was Secretary of State. Hence, the "Russia if you find them..."

The fact that your side ignores real facts, preferring to twist them and misrepresent them is one of the things I was referring to in this OP. Crying wolf where there is NO WOLF!

End of discussion.

For a guy that likes to dish out broad generalizations against his opponents, you sure get sensitive when the tables are turned and your own honesty is called into question.

Its a two way street this whole 'anti-PC, tell it like it is' stuff. Be careful about being blunt and having no filter with other people because they might just be blunt and have no filter with you.

 

[haymarket]

The commie bastards spent a couple hundred thousand dollars on social media. Is that all it took to stop hildebeast? If that was all that did it, you lefters are in real trouble!

If you are invoking monetary value in the campaign - could you please tell us how much money the free coverage of Trump invoking the wikileaks & Russian information over 160 times in the closing weeks of the campaign was worth to his campaign?

 

[Lutherf]

Man, you guys are as pathological in your lying as Trump is.

We know form court fillings and other public information that Trump's circle believed that Russia had stolen emails form Clinton's server, and were willing to release them under the right conditions. This lead to several associates of Trump's campaign meeting with Russian officials again and again, hoping to find someone in their federations network that would just hand them over for free. Of course, these documents had to be forgeries, as there's no evidence Clinton's state department sever was ever hacked, but it shows there were multiple unsuccessful attempts by Trump's circle to convince the Russians to help them in the election.

The fact that all of this was going on behind the scenes, then Trump publicly asks Russia to release information his team were hotly pursuing, trips all kinds of alarm wires that he must have been aware of what his team were doing.

Actually, in the same press conference y'all keep talking about, and before the "Russia, please steal Hillary's email" hooey everyone gripes about, Trump addressed this exact matter - From the Federal News Service Transcript beginning at 5 minutes and 43 seconds into the video:

Donald J. Trump

It's just a total deflection, this whole thing with Russia. In fact, I saw her campaign manager I don't know his title, Mook. I saw him on television and they asked him about Russia and the hacking.

By the way, they hacked -- they probably have her 33,000 e-mails. I hope they do. They probably have her 33,000 e-mails that she lost and deleted because you'd see some beauties there. So let's see.

But I watched this guy Mook and he talked about we think it was Russia that hacked. Now, first of all was what was said on those that's so bad but he said I watched it. I think he was live. But he said we think it was Russia that hacked.TRUMP: And then he said -- and this is in person sitting and watching television as I've been doing -- and then he said could be Trump, yeah, yeah. Trump, Trump, oh yeah, Trump. He reminded me of John Lovitz for "Saturday Night Live" in the liar (ph) where he'd go yes, yes, I went to Harvard, Harvard, yes, yes. This is the guy, you have to see it. Yes, it could be Trump, yes, yes. So it is so farfetched. It's so ridiculous. Honestly I wish I had that power. I'd love to have that power but Russia has no respect for our country.

And that's why -- if it is Russia, nobody even knows this, it's probably China, or it could be somebody sitting in his bed. But it shows how weak we are, it shows how disrespected we are. Total -- assuming it's Russia or China or one of the major countries and competitors, it's a total sign of disrespect for our country. Putin and the leaders throughout the world have no respect for our country anymore and they certainly have no respect for our leader. So I know nothing about it. It's one of the most farfetched I've ever heard. Yes, Jon (ph)?

Also, keep in mind that the whole 30k emails thing was was instigated by Hillary herself back in 2015 when she announced that she had merely deleted "personal emails" even though she was under investigation and had already been asked for those emails. Furthermore, the question of the emails was a hot item in the press in the days before the Trump news conference. Here's a Politifact article from a week before Trump's conference - PolitiFact Sheet: Hillary Clinton?s email controversy | PolitiFact

Organizations such as NPR -
https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/04/02/396823014/fact-check-hillary-clinton-those-emails-and-the-law
and
https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/09/11/439456567/fact-check-hillary-clintons-email-defense-is-a-mixed-bag
and Politico
https://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/hillary-clinton-email-questions-unanswered-115964

had been asking questions about Hillary and her emails for MORE THAN A YEAR prior to the Trump press conference. This email thing DID NOT begin with Trump.

 

[itsforthekids]

If you are invoking monetary value in the campaign - could you please tell us how much money the free coverage of Trump invoking the wikileaks & Russian information over 160 times in the closing weeks of the campaign was worth to his campaign?

Hildebeast would disappear for weeks on end. She looked ill. She collapsed. She had coughing fits. She NEVER went to Wisconsin. She was a poor candidate. She surrounded herself with celebrities, never really having an "I feel your pain" moment.

That's why she lost.

 

[code1211]

That is exactly what independents and liberals have been calling for, letting the investigation run its course. Republicans have been actively obstructing, denying, distracting and lying to try to get the entire investigation shut down from day 1. Hell, on Monday it's expected for House Republicans to impeach Rosenstein. They do not want to discover the truth because they realize what it means for their political position.

It is now AN INDISPUTABLE FACT that Russian intelligence agents actively hacked our political parties and intentionally steered our election outcome with targeted leaks and propaganda, yet Trump and the majority of his supporters refuse to even accept this FACT. The investigation will continue no matter how hard Republicans scream at the top of their lungs that it should stop. Crying wolf would be saying something is happening then finding out it isn't. This situation is the exact opposite as it's Republicans saying something didn't happen when it turns out it did.

So, then, you missed the part of Rosentein's comments that said exactly the opposite of your big, bolded, red words?

 

[code1211]

I'm glad the Mueller investigation has gotten far enough that even spineless partisan Trump bots like yourself are admitting they did interfere with our elections, you just have shifted your argument to "You can't prove it had an effect on an election won by a few tens of thousands of votes in a few select states. Also, I don't care!" Mueller is going to continue to drag your dishonest, partisan ass into the reality of the situation one dozen indictments at a time.

Whether it effected the outcome or not isn't even the argument. THE SAME DAY the Russians started this hack was THE SAME DAY Donald Trump went on TV in front of the entire world and asked the Russians to do it. Jesus Christ, how is that not involved?

You can't be as stupid as your post would indicate.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

So, then, you missed the part of Rosentein's comments that said exactly the opposite of your big, bolded, red words?

Nope, that is explicitly what was stated and happened. Are you denying the report that GRU agents began their attacks on the DNC the same day Trump called for them to do it?

You can't be as stupid as your post would indicate.

If you're saying the investigation is fraudulent and the Russians were in fact not involved, produce your evidence.

 

[code1211]

Party over country. The GOP is scared poopless of Trump's base - they know Trump has almost 90% support within the GOP party. The cowardly GOP lawmakers care only about the next election - short term gain for them - long term damage to this country and our democracy.

90% support Trump and you fear that the majority working together will hurt democracy.

Do you know what democracy is?

 

[code1211]

I'm just glad these Trump-fellating hyper-partisans are at least admitting there was Russian interference in the election, that's progress. Can we get them to care about a president going on TV in front of the entire world and asking the Russians to do this hack? Unlikely, party over country, but we've seen them go through every stage of denial, including calling everyone else crazy for believing the Russians were even involved. I suspect they will continue to revise and revise and revise their position as the investigation continues.

I believe the question was not in regard to Russians interfering in anything. that is to be assumed.

The question was and always was about COLLUUUUUUUUUSION!

Is Manafort in solitary confinement because he's a Russian? Was Flynn abused, lied to by the FBI, threatened and extorted by the FBI because he's a Russian?

 

[yankintx]

Whether there is evidence or not of its effect, there is no doubt now that Russia attacked our democracy. As leader of this country, Trump should actually leading the investigation into the hacking of our voting system and other efforts to subvert our democracy. Instead, Trump continues to deny it ever happened and continues his romance with Putin. The most likely reason is this could be that Trump thinks or knows the Russian efforts help him and want them to keep doing it. Trump knows that Putin needs to bless any significant business deal in Russia and sucking up to Putin as Trump is, is the only way to secure a business deal -The security of this country be damned.

It's criminal negligence at the very least for a president to behave this way.

As I stated in another thead, Trump is responsible for this countries security. His continued denial and attacks on Mueller are dereliction of duty at the very least. The Dems need to HAMMER that point going into the midterms. A Dem controlled House will nueter Trump enough to hold him accountable.

 

[code1211]

If anybody has been crying wolf, its been the right-wing.

Despite a mountain of overwhelming evidence that the Russian government orchestrated a covert operation to corrupt our public and electoral procedures, the right-wing has engaged in comedic conspiracy theories that waste valuable bandwidth.

They've accused the FBI, DOJ, CIA, and entire media of being apart of a secret coup to overthrow the Republican power in this country. We've seen them deny there was Russian hacking, that it had any effect on the election, or that if it occurred that Trumps circle had any knowledge or connection to it. Instead they've pimped disgusting theories about the whole thing being an inside job by Seth Rich, and accusing the entire FBI and DOJ of creating this allegations out of thin air, in order to remove Trump form the oval office.

And, of course ... they're still talking about Clinton. Even after a second review of the investigation by the DOJ IG that they requested, they are still accusing federal investigators of conspiracies (without pointing to a single investigative action to back that up of course), while crying that their emotional craving for Clinton to be jailed basically overrules any due process.

These people "cry wolf" all the time with their baseless conspiracy theories. No matter how many times facts and investigations prove them wrong, they continue in their lies and slander anyways. They've decided they are above evidence and facts, and need only their tribalism and emotions to guide them.

So you are saying the Hillary did NOT have a private server in her private residence on which she conducted state department communications?

 

[code1211]

Trump asked Russians to get Clinton emails. They immediately started trying.

Astonishing lack of comprehension.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

I believe the question was not in regard to Russians interfering in anything. that is to be assumed.
The question was and always was about COLLUUUUUUUUUSION!
Is Manafort in solitary confinement because he's a Russian? Was Flynn abused, lied to by the FBI, threatened and extorted by the FBI because he's a Russian?

That is absolutely not "assumed" as every Republican was screaming at the top of their lungs there was no Russian involvement until long after it was proven there was. Dozens of Russians have been indicted as well as many in the Trump campaign. Further we have video evidence of Trump going on live TV and asking the Russians specifically to do this hack.

 

[code1211]

Whether there is evidence or not of its effect, there is no doubt now that Russia attacked our democracy. As leader of this country, Trump should actually leading the investigation into the hacking of our voting system and other efforts to subvert our democracy. Instead, Trump continues to deny it ever happened and continues his romance with Putin. The most likely reason is this could be that Trump thinks or knows the Russian efforts help him and want them to keep doing it. Trump knows that Putin needs to bless any significant business deal in Russia and sucking up to Putin as Trump is, is the only way to secure a business deal -The security of this country be damned.

It's criminal negligence at the very least for a president to behave this way.

In what way is Trump not "leading the investigation into the hacking of our voting system"?

Aren't all of the investigators employed in the Executive Branch?

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Astonishing lack of comprehension.

Look, we get it that you're fine with US presidential candidates calling on our foreign enemies to attack their opponents, but most Americans see that as a fundamental threat to our democracy.

In what way is Trump not "leading the investigation into the hacking of our voting system"?

Aren't all of the investigators employed in the Executive Branch?

You'll recall he's tried to shut down, obstruct and kill the investigation about a thousand times already.

 

[PirateMk1]

Any person that isn't blindly following him like he's a god can see that he objectively has ****ed-up more than any president of past.

If you read my posts on Trump before and shortly after he was elected you will find I was quite lucid as to what he is. A self interested and focused shark. Quite frankly he has IMHO turned out better than I had ever expected. Objectively speaking from my point of view besides making lots of foot in mouth statements he has policy wise been one of the better presidents we have had in some time, at least by my preferred measurements. If many like I were to vote again tomorrow based on the metric am I better off today than I was yesterday, I would have to vote for him again as I suspect a lot of people would.

 

[calamity]

I think the bigger problem is all of this so-called journalist work that does not even attempt to be fair to our President.

Or journalism for that matter.

People notice.

Lol...who in their right mind would be fair to a traitor who ****s on our values, allies and institutions while buddying-up with dictators and rogue elements set on destroying us?

 

[code1211]

This is the typical response from your side of the argument. Emotional outbursts and ad hominem attacks. :roll:

One thing I've learned is that when the fall-back response is an emotional attempt to denigrate one's opponent that means you have no real argument. That seems to be happening with more and more members on your side of the argument.

Those are the tactics of fanaticism, and IMO is why your side while loud and boisterous is not succeeding in changing anyone's mind. I am sorry to see that. Tagline time.

As lawyers will say: "If you got the law, pound the law. If you got the facts, pound the facts. If you got nothing, pound the table." There's a whole lot of anti-Trump table pounding going on.

 

[code1211]

It's not crying wolf if we have video of him going on live TV in front of the world and asking Russia to specifically do this hack, and then they do. Can you explain why you think pointing that fact out is crying wolf? Did you miss the video clip?

What is amusing and a little sad at the same time is that you don't know he was not telling a joke.

 

[code1211]

Will you guys ever get over Benghazi?

Where did this come from?