Terror -- The Uk's New Christmas export

[Infinite Chaos]

Indeed.

It sunk in then. Good.

-- If so, a copycat tactic. But in reality taking out words put in a mouth.

Well it seems we were talking about the same thing - however your reasoning in including that ambiguous statement in a reply to me led to confusion. Besides, Saddam isn't Hitler and we declared war on Hitler, with Saddam we invaded (being already in control of much of the country)

And to think you moaned on about people doing the same to you.

Ah, you mistake my admiration for the intelligence and honesty that our one man apologist hunter demonstrates in his "interpretation" of other people's posts for moaning that he puts words in my mouth.

If you have an honest interest in truth - check this post and the reply from drunken asparagus as to how retarded the tactic is of assuming someone has a particular view or thinks a particular way simply because they haven't voiced something the same way as you.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/afric...bings-nigeria-kill-31-a-4.html#post1059193626

http://www.debatepolitics.com/afric...bings-nigeria-kill-31-a-4.html#post1059193672

Actually, if I recall correctly, I've had to correct you on similar ways of thinking too.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

It sunk in then. Good.

Yes. America doesn't seem set to let him have his second term.

Besides, Saddam isn't Hitler

I see enough of a similarity in the two men as in they gassed their own people, annexed neighbouring territories and destabilised their parts of the world whilst at the same time instigating brutal terrorist dictatorships.

I've had to correct you on similar ways of thinking too.

You say that a lot and I reckon that's the teacher in you coming out. Good job the stuff here isn't on the syllabus otherwise all the kids with their own minds would have 'Islamophobe' or 'wevisionist' to baffle parents on the report cards.

 

[William Rea]

Source mi5 on al-qaida

Source mi5 on al-qaida and the uk

Source mi5 on international terrorism and the uk

There have always been problems with terrorist groups in Europe, without rehashing 60+ pages of garbage - our involvement with the US in Afghanistan made us a target. That has been explained to people like you umpteen times but it doesn't help your agenda to discuss this does it?

It's a "War on Terror" being waged by a Coalition but they don't believe that the other side in this "War" recognises it as a Coalition and targets the Coalition members?

In my simplistic libtard/leftists mind I guess that would mean that when we declared war on Germany in WW2 we shouldn't have expected their Axis Allies to target us? It's just muddled sophistry from the right again.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- You say that a lot and I reckon that's the teacher in you coming out. Good job the stuff here isn't on the syllabus otherwise all the kids with their own minds would have 'Islamophobe' or 'wevisionist' to baffle parents on the report cards.

No need to be a teacher to demonstrate someone's vapidity when doing the exact same thing

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/82623-austerity-measures-eu-4.html#post1059039478

It was because I didn't condemn China in the Europe forum on another issue in the same way you were that you then tried to accuse me of failing to condemn the Chinese. For heaven's sake- this is a debate forum. My strident condemnation of China for your benefit isn't suddenly going to cause the Chinese leadership to rescind and do away with its system. More sophisticated thinkers on this forum understand that (I'll borrow drunken asparagus's words here) "Just because I don't scream an opinion every 5 seconds or I put blame on both sides does not make me an apologist."

It is thinking of the most arrogant as well as stupid order to make such highly charged ass-umptions about another poster because he or she doesn't say things the same way as you do or reacts less stridently about an issue.

In the same way - anyone NOT screaming that the muslims are going to take over Europe in the next 60 years is not an Islamophile. The point of this thread was to bait European and mainly UK posters - plain and simple. Others posted that the situation was not as painted - remember that Gordon Murray is an avowed Neocon and his agenda is thus plain - I posted the MI5 website and articles on how the UK is reacting and their understanding of why and how al-Qaeda has targetted us. The history of certain al-Qaeda operatives and imams in the UK is clear and they originally came here partially under asylum and also through migration and they built a network. They weren't going to "s**t" their own nest by bombing the UK originally - the UK was a base of political operations for them just as France became a base for Ayatollah Khomeini but our major involvement in Iraq and then Afghanistan forced these people's hands and they began to plan bomb plots gainst us.

My explaining that will somehow make me an "apologist" or an "appeaser" to our intelligent American friend however as I said earlier - if you're really interested in honesty, you might just rise above that.

 

[Gardener]

My explaining that will somehow make me an "apologist" or an "appeaser" to our intelligent American friend however as I said earlier - if you're really interested in honesty, you might just rise above that.

You can blame terrorism on the targets all you want, I.C., but I am free to point out that blaming the targets for the terrorism directed against them is an act of apologia, since it shifts the responsibility away from the perp and on to the victim. You might as well blame rape on women.

Your continuous belligerence insisting it is somehow dishonest to point out your pattern of rhetoric on the subject simply belies your agenda here, which is to do anything in your power to fool others into thinking terrorism is some sort of rational response to dealing with other terrorism, and so in order to avoid the terrorism, one must play into the terrorists' hands by appeasing it.

Yep -- the Taliban are the nicest folks imaginable. If the U.K. had only supported them, there would be no terrorism. How brilliant :roll: .

 

[Infinite Chaos]

You can blame terrorism on the targets all you want, I.C., but I am free to point out that blaming the targets for the terrorism directed against them is an act of apologia, since it shifts the responsibility away from the perp and on to the victim. You might as well blame rape on women.

Your continuous belligerence insisting it is somehow dishonest to point out your pattern of rhetoric on the subject simply belies your agenda here, which is to do anything in your power to fool others into thinking terrorism is some sort of rational response to dealing with other terrorism, and so in order to avoid the terrorism, one must play into the terrorists' hands by appeasing it.

Yep -- the Taliban are the nicest folks imaginable. If the U.K. had only supported them, there would be no terrorism. How brilliant :roll: .

-- It is thinking of the most arrogant as well as stupid order to make such highly charged ass-umptions about another poster because he or she doesn't say things the same way as you do or reacts less stridently about an issue.

I don't need to say any more - you continue to demonstrate why I admire you brilliant and insightful mind so much. You are such a beacon of honesty and integrity. I would be misguided in the extreme to challenge you to find me where I pass blame onto the target - I'd hate to see you turn tail and vanish as you unfortunately have done on previous challenges to honest discussion.

You don't need to convince me - I know how brilliant you are but maybe you could convince those terrible doubters of your brilliance by posting for them (wicked people) evidence of my blaming the target?

I'd also hate to bring up that the US helped, funded and trained Usama bin Laden - no blame there for you guys, you're the light of the world after all. It was us appeasing Brits that trained him, if only we'd supported him too - then our shame would be complete.:roll:

 

[Manc Skipper]

Would that be the same Taliban who were feted, and wined (or at least dined) in Texas to persuade them to approve UNOCAL's pipeline plans?

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Would that be the same Taliban who were feted, and wined (or at least dined) in Texas to persuade them to approve UNOCAL's pipeline plans?

Absolutely, we are talking "Texas" just north of West Yorkshire, it couldn't be Texas, USA. Oh, and they aren't "Taleban", you must have mistaken them for "T' (real) Ale (drinkers) Bar (society).

Our trustworthy American friends had absolutley nothing to do with the other turban wearing guys. That was all down to us - or more realistically - me - personally apologising and taking them to power.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

"Just because I don't scream an opinion every 5 seconds or I put blame on both sides does not make me an apologist."

Indeed no, but I do remember actually asking a few people in my opposition to denounce or decry on a specific issue, with the opportunities passed up repeatedly.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Indeed no, but I do remember actually asking a few people in my opposition to denounce or decry on a specific issue, with the opportunities passed up repeatedly.

Couple questions then
1) was the specific issue relevant to the forum and subject? (I know you asked me a couple times and I had to remind you which forum you were making your requests) I directed you to the search engine when you asked me, not sure about other posters.

2) by their denouncements- were you expecting (for example) the Chinese to beg Debate Politics for mercy? Or Usama bin laden to phone the europe forum from his cave retreat and say "allright mate, tis a fair cop. I hand meself in I does?"

As I mentioned earlier - a more sophisticated poster would not presume to assume about another poster's views unless they posted them directly e.g. poster A says "all the taleban I've met are men who would beat their women" - hopefully... you can see what the subset is (taleban men) and that the set is both sexes- meaning that some Taleban are men and some are women. Some might even be children.

Tis straightforward stuff if you are honest about what you say and wish for. So when another poster says - some of the taleban might be women - then the first poster calling the second poster an "apologist" is cretinous idiocy of highest order.

There are loads of other examples - why do you think certain posters have to keep being reminded (not just by me) that their not saying something does not automatically mean anyone else can or should presume to guess or imagine what they are saying / thinking?

 

[Grant]

Absolutely, we are talking "Texas" just north of West Yorkshire, it couldn't be Texas, USA. Oh, and they aren't "Taleban", you must have mistaken them for "T' (real) Ale (drinkers) Bar (society).

Our trustworthy American friends had absolutley nothing to do with the other turban wearing guys. That was all down to us - or more realistically - me - personally apologising and taking them to power.

You're quoting the BBC???

So the Texans are responsible for international terrorism, murdering school children, denying women's right, and so on?

The BBC has stupidicized an entire generation of intellectually challenged left wing Brits, and should be sued for their participation in making Britain the mess it has become today.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

You're quoting the BBC???

So the Texans are responsible for international terrorism, murdering school children, denying women's right, and so on?

The BBC has stupidicized an entire generation of intellectually challenged left wing Brits, and should be sued for their participation in making Britain the mess it has become today.

Gotta say I'm dissapointed you misread my post. You're usually so astute so I'll just save you scrolling up and re-reading my words - I repeat that I explained to Manc Skipper that the US had nothing to do with the Taleban, you're perfectly correct (as you usually are) that the taleban weren't invited to Texas in the US - he forgot about Texas just north of West Yorkshire. You see, we have an oil state here called texas too.

Didn't you know we brits were completely responsible for al-Qaeda and the Taleban? I'm agreeing with you! It was also us who trained Usama bin Laden against the Soviets in Afghanistan. I repeat - "our trustworthy American friends had absolutley nothing to do with the turban wearing guys."

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

1) was the specific issue relevant to the forum and subject?

I judged them to be.

2) by their denouncements- were you expecting (for example) the Chinese to beg Debate Politics for mercy?

No.

 

[Gardener]

I don't need to say any more - you continue to demonstrate why I admire you brilliant and insightful mind so much. You are such a beacon of honesty and integrity. I would be misguided in the extreme to challenge you to find me where I pass blame onto the target - I'd hate to see you turn tail and vanish as you unfortunately have done on previous challenges to honest discussion.

You don't need to convince me - I know how brilliant you are but maybe you could convince those terrible doubters of your brilliance by posting for them (wicked people) evidence of my blaming the target?

I'd also hate to bring up that the US helped, funded and trained Usama bin Laden - no blame there for you guys, you're the light of the world after all. It was us appeasing Brits that trained him, if only we'd supported him too - then our shame would be complete.:roll:

My goodness, you are getting so twitterpated, it appears your short term memory has abandoned you.

Your exact words were "our involvement with the US in Afghanistan made us a target", which were incredibly simple-minded and reduced a complex dynamic down to a single factor that placed all responsibility upon the target and none upon the perp. You did not talk about the Islamist ideology that drives the terrorism. You didn't mention the changing demographics of Muslims within Britain, or the way they have been emboldened to increasingly radical actions with their increasing numbers. You failed to mention the connection to Madrasas in Pakistan and other countries. All you offered was an absolutist statement that simplified the entire notion of British Muslim terrorism to a level you could accommodate.

.

 

[Grant]

Gotta say I'm dissapointed you misread my post. You're usually so astute so I'll just save you scrolling up and re-reading my words - I repeat that I explained to Manc Skipper that the US had nothing to do with the Taleban, you're perfectly correct (as you usually are) that the taleban weren't invited to Texas in the US - he forgot about Texas just north of West Yorkshire. You see, we have an oil state here called texas too.

Didn't you know we brits were completely responsible for al-Qaeda and the Taleban? I'm agreeing with you! It was also us who trained Usama bin Laden against the Soviets in Afghanistan. I repeat - "our trustworthy American friends had absolutley nothing to do with the turban wearing guys."

Well!! Silly moi!

 

[Infinite Chaos]

My goodness, you are getting so twitterpated, it appears your short term memory has abandoned you.

Your exact words were "our involvement with the US in Afghanistan made us a target", which were incredibly simple-minded and reduced a complex dynamic down to a single factor that placed all responsibility upon the target and none upon the perp. You did not talk about the Islamist ideology that drives the terrorism. You didn't mention the changing demographics of Muslims within Britain, or the way they have been emboldened to increasingly radical actions with their increasing numbers. You failed to mention the connection to Madrasas in Pakistan and other countries. All you offered was an absolutist statement that simplified the entire notion of British Muslim terrorism to a level you could accommodate.

.

Just gotta agree with you there too, I made the mistake of thinking anyone reading my posts was sophisticated enough to have any background to events here in the UK. You're so marvellous, I just want to be as clever and sophisticated as you when I grow up.

I really have never made those connections before in any of my post on this forum. Goodness me! Whatever was I thinking of? As for the changing demographics, yes - I now agree the muslims here will run this country way before those 60 years I've been told of.

Well!! Silly moi!

No No! You were absolutly right - it's because of your insight I finally saw that our BBC is actually in fact run and owned by Al Jazeera. When you've lived all your life with the propaganda speakers mounted on every lamp-post here you tend to forget what a propaganda machine of lies the BBC is.

Hang on a moment, the BBC propaganda speaker just outside my window has woken my young daughter.

 

[Gardener]

Just gotta agree with you there too, I made the mistake of thinking anyone reading my posts was sophisticated enough to have any background to events here in the UK. You're so marvellous, I just want to be as clever and sophisticated as you when I grow up.

I really have never made those connections before in any of my post on this forum. Goodness me! Whatever was I thinking of? As for the changing demographics, yes - I now agree the muslims here will run this country way before those 60 years I've been told of.



No No! You were absolutly right - it's because of your insight I finally saw that our BBC is actually in fact run and owned by Al Jazeera. When you've lived all your life with the propaganda speakers mounted on every lamp-post here you tend to forget what a propaganda machine of lies the BBC is.

.

I am just heartened to know that there are such perfectly sensible people as yourself who realize these brave freedom fighters would not be forced to engage in these valliant acts if it were not for the U.K's support for an evil American mission to confront other freedom fighters in Aphganistan, and if right, proper non-Islamophobic Brits know what's good for them, they will realize it's their duty to support these freedom fighters against those icky bad Americans. Otherwise, the brave freedom fighters might think the Brits are icky bad, too.

Of course it's all your fault they were forced to kill you. Didn't you realize how repugnant it was to oppose them?

 

[Infinite Chaos]

I am just heartened to know that there are such perfectly sensible people as yourself who realize these brave freedom fighters would not be forced to engage in these valliant acts if it were not for the U.K's support for an evil American mission to confront other freedom fighters in Aphganistan, and if right, proper non-Islamophobic Brits know what's good for them, they will realize it's their duty to support these freedom fighters against those icky bad Americans. Otherwise, the brave freedom fighters might think the Brits are icky bad, too.

Of course it's all your fault they were forced to kill you. Didn't you realize how repugnant it was to oppose them?

Wow do you now see why you're so admired? Even when you're wrong you're so brilliantly astute and clever that one has to just admire the sunshine shining from your best feature. I do hate to correct you but if you recall, the American mission to confront Afghans wasn’t evil and didn’t make you evil – we tricked you into going into Afghanistan to confront Afghans that we originally trained and funded.
Nothing to do with you innocent upholders of honorable values and certainly not such an honest intellectual person such as yourself – you have values and standards of the most admirable sort.

We’re all apologists here dontcha know? We even talked you into aiding and funding IRA freedom fighters to roam your streets fundraising in public. We’re such evil people we are evil to ourselves. We even apologise for NORAID - if it wasn;t for us, they wouldn't have forced you good honest sorts into paying to support poor widows and orphans.

And we’re all Islamophobic Brits now – those of us who aren’t Muslims running the country and running the “apologist” newspapers and “apologist” web news sites that we have here.

 

[Gardener]

Wow do you now see why you're so admired? Even when you're wrong you're so brilliantly astute and clever that one has to just admire the sunshine shining from your best feature. I do hate to correct you but if you recall, the American mission to confront Afghans wasn’t evil and didn’t make you evil – we tricked you into going into Afghanistan to confront Afghans that we originally trained and funded.
Nothing to do with you innocent upholders of honorable values and certainly not such an honest intellectual person such as yourself – you have values and standards of the most admirable sort.

We’re all apologists here dontcha know? We even talked you into aiding and funding IRA freedom fighters to roam your streets fundraising in public. We’re such evil people we are evil to ourselves. We even apologise for NORAID - if it wasn;t for us, they wouldn't have forced you good honest sorts into paying to support poor widows and orphans.

And we’re all Islamophobic Brits now – those of us who aren’t Muslims running the country and running the “apologist” newspapers and “apologist” web news sites that we have here.

I do have to admit that I bask in your admiration. It offers me a beacon of hope that those struggling so abjectly to understand the world around them might turn to me in their time of need.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- It offers me a beacon of hope --

You are a beacon...

 

[Gardener]

You are a beacon...

All this man love you are directing at me is starting to go to my head.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

All this man love you are directing at me is starting to go to my head.

Well, I'm sad it took you two pages to recognise that I already called you a beacon.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/87827-terror-uks-new-christmas-export-69.html#post1059246426

We even have our own heart shaped mulberry bush. I will dance it with you whenever RoP gets bored of his circular arguments with me.

 

[Gardener]

Well, I'm sad it took you two pages to recognise that I already called you a beacon.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/87827-terror-uks-new-christmas-export-69.html#post1059246426

We even have our own heart shaped mulberry bush. I will dance it with you whenever RoP gets bored of his circular arguments with me.

But will you dance to it nekkid whilst slavoring your flesh with the crushed fruit?

at least provide some imagery if you are going to make such tantalizing promises.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

I read your actual views daily

So you'd remember I said this --

-- You're so marvellous, I just want to be as clever and sophisticated as you when I grow up.--

But will you dance to it nekkid whilst slavoring your flesh with the crushed fruit?

at least provide some imagery if you are going to make such tantalizing promises.

By force of irony, that could make me a young and boyish Aisha to your Muhammed. I sadly await the indignation of others who have stated repugnance to such a relationship. What a sad end to a tragic thread.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

I sadly await the indignation of others who have stated repugnance to such a relationship.

Dunno about anyone else but I'm more intrigued than anything else by that statement.

'Sadly' awaiting the responses of people disgusted by what kind of relationship, exactly?!