Terror -- The Uk's New Christmas export

[Republic_Of_Public]

And amongst the moans of there not being a proper debate when the wind blows the 'wrong' way, there is no way this commentary on Islamist fifth-columnists can be left unpublished:

America is under siege from an enemy who doesn’t need the blitzkrieg tactics of tanks, infantry, artillery and air power. These enemy combatants use bursts of violence to terrify us; then, they smile and overwhelm us with floods of radical asylum seekers, hate preachers and Ph.D. students. When the time is right, they unleash bare-knuckled threats and intimidation, demands for special privileges, decimation of our free speech, cooption of our ruling class, and relentless legal warfare, in which they turn our own laws against us. Right now, they’re winning.

The Social Contract - The Ground Zero Mosque Holds the Key to the Attack on America


Carbon-copy tactics are being adopted everywhere in the world. All I've written about Islamists being appeased with Sharia, halal and all the rest of it are part of one big picture. Hence my comment somewhere that even if other Muslims aren't terrorists or are pro-integration, they still benefit from heavy duty Islamists pounding open the door for them to be accepted through.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

I also found this on why it's absolute madness to allow creeping Sharia. Even the watered-down, Leftist-endorsed 'harmless' version is supremacism by the back door, leading to a much stronger toxin in the body of our nation once the Muslim Community have had their fill of what we've given them. They always demand more.


The Social Contract - The Constitution and the Crescent

A few examples will illuminate the crucial differences between a democracy and any land where shariah rule prevails. The Islamic world continually erupts in violent rage when it feels offended. As Michelle Malkin6 has pointed out, German supermodel Claudia Schiffer was threatened with death after she wore a dress printed with a saying from the Quran. The Nike Company was forced to recall 800,000 shoes in 1997 because outraged Muslims claimed the “Air” logo looked like Arabic script for Allah. In Bologna, Italy, a jihadist cell plotted to blow up a church, because it displayed a fifteenth century fresco depicting Mohammed being tormented.

 

[Gardener]

Sometimes Alexa, you have to just walk away as Laila and Mira clearly did. They recognised whether there was a debate to be had or not quite a few pages ago - this wasn't ever meant to be a "debate" thread.

Oh, the drama!

Meanwhile, the U.K. is still an international terrorist hub. Funny how that works, isn't it?

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Oh, the drama!

Meanwhile, the U.K. is still an international terrorist hub. Funny how that works, isn't it?

Source mi5 on al-qaida

Source mi5 on al-qaida and the uk

Source mi5 on international terrorism and the uk

There have always been problems with terrorist groups in Europe, without rehashing 60+ pages of garbage - our involvement with the US in Afghanistan made us a target. That has been explained to people like you umpteen times but it doesn't help your agenda to discuss this does it?

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

And 'people like us' (taste that contempt!) have replied to selectively deaf liberal-leftist ears that all the filth can be sourced to Muhammad's religious ordainments. It's only other Muslims not following orders to the letter that we don't get MORE hell and high water from the Islamic world.


We were a 'target' for Hitler since we went to war with him over Poland. But it doesn't stand to reason (except amongst Mosley fans) that we should have left him alone in case he hit us.

And remember that France and Spain were also Islamonazi targets, even when their backing for the Coalition was hardly overt and clamouring. But they too have been hit with bombs, street mayhem, Sharia and other Muslim indignities same as the rest of us.

The facts listed in these 60 pages (garbage to dhimmis) outline a whole body of offences common to most main Western nations. (Just ask the family of Theo van Gogh!)

 

[Infinite Chaos]

And 'people like us' (taste that contempt!) have replied to selectively deaf liberal-leftist ears that all the filth can be sourced to Muhammad's religious ordainments. It's only other Muslims not following orders to the letter that we don't get MORE hell and high water from the Islamic world.

So is the “liberal-left” responsible for the security of this country or MI5?

Whoever you feel is responsible – do you suggest then that as you believe all muslims are culpable that MI5 should abandon watching all the other recognised terror and spy networks that threaten this country so we can watch all the muslims who live here just for your tin-foil hat brigade?

We were a 'target' for Hitler since we went to war with him over Poland. But it doesn't stand to reason (except amongst Mosley fans) that we should have left him alone in case he hit us.

Wrong as usual – operation “sealion” unless you mean some other kind of target that historians have yet to uncover?

Or you can try the BBC Learning Zone – if a literary timeline is too difficult, there’s a nice set of pictures that tell you of Hitler’s general plans against the UK. He didn’t actually want war against us to begin with.

And remember that France and Spain were also Islamonazi targets, even when their backing for the Coalition was hardly overt and clamouring. But they too have been hit with bombs, street mayhem, Sharia and other Muslim indignities same as the rest of us.

Spain pulled its troops out of Afghanistan as a direct result of the Madrid bombings. The electorate decided to vote in a govt committed to non-involvement. Your continued “wevisionism” of recent history is laughable.

The facts listed in these 60 pages (garbage to dhimmis) outline a whole body of offences common to most main Western nations. (Just ask the family of Theo van Gogh!)

OK, you’ve restarted this pointless thread with one of your mulberry bush posts. Are we to dance yet another pointless dance while I try to get any reasonable and honest answers out of you?

Actually – seeing how your couldn’t get basic historical facts right, I’m walking away – that leaves you and your cohorts to claim yet another pointless “victory.”

 

[Gardener]

our involvement with the US in Afghanistan made us a target.

I guess you and the terrorists both agree that the terrorism is your fault, then.

No wonder terrorism thrives in the U.K. as it does. Not only do the terrorists justify their terrorism, but a good number of Brits repeat their talking points for them as to the cause.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- No wonder terrorism thrives in the U.K. as it does. Not only do the terrorists justify their terrorism, but a good number of Brits repeat their talking points for them as to the cause.

Yeah, we f*****d up and didn't finish the job in Iraq 1, we trained and gave funding to Usama Bin laden didn't we, we funded and housed NORAID to equip the IRA with bombs and guns against a so-called ally.

That was ALL the UK's fault...

 

[Gardener]

Yeah, we f*****d up and didn't finish the job in Iraq 1, we trained and gave funding to Usama Bin laden didn't we, we funded and housed NORAID to equip the IRA with bombs and guns against a so-called ally.

That was ALL the UK's fault...

Did somebody cue the knee-jerk anti-Americanism card?

In any case, it is good to know that you are so willing to make excuses for terrorism by continually deflecting responsibility away from the terrorists or the ideology that drives them and on to their targets. The Islamists thank you for your cooperation.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Did somebody cue the knee-jerk anti-Americanism card?

In any case, it is good to know that you are so willing to make excuses for terrorism by continually deflecting responsibility away from the terrorists or the ideology that drives them and on to their targets. The Islamists thank you for your cooperation.

Whatever makes you think that I was being anti-American? I was agreeing with you - we (the UK) went into Iraq 1 and didn't finish the job, we (the UK) went and trained up Usama bin Laden and his crew and we (the UK) funded and allowed NORAID to operate publicly while they developed links and training for al-Qaeda.

I was admiring your masterful insightfullness don'tcha know?

 

[Gardener]

I was admiring your masterful insightfullness don'tcha know?

and I was admiring your insightfulness in viewing the appeasement of a totalitarian ideology as the way to make it go away.


Yes, by all means, let's give that kid all your lunch money when he threatens you, and after giving it to him, be very vocal in your defense of his reasons for shaking you down. That'll sure show him.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

and I was admiring your insightfulness in viewing the appeasement of a totalitarian ideology as the way to make it go away.


Yes, by all means, let's give that kid all your lunch money when he threatens you, and after giving it to him, be very vocal in your defense of his reasons for shaking you down. That'll sure show him.

You’re so kind as to save me from having to explain my actual views by kindly making some up for me. What I admire most about your posts is the highly intelligent and honest way you so cleverly insert your own interpretation of someone else’s words.

You're a veritable beacon of honesty and integrity.

 

[Gardener]

You’re so kind as to save me from having to explain my actual views by kindly making some up for me. What I admire most about your posts is the highly intelligent and honest way you so cleverly insert your own interpretation of someone else’s words.

You're a veritable beacon of honesty and integrity.

I read your actual views daily -- as in the way you share the same viewpoint as Islamists when it comes to attribution in regards to their terrorism. You have reduced terrorism to a simple-minded "they wouldn't terrorize us if we weren't in Afghanistan" (or Iraq, or have our bases in such and such, or whatever other convenient excuse) that is nothing but apologetics because it does not hold THEM responsible for their terrorism, does not understand the first thing about the ideology that drives them, and is nothing more than the mindless repetition of the same sort of policy of appeasement that got you blokes in trouble 70 years ago. This time, however, the totalitarians you are enabling are right in your midst instead of a foreign country.


Of course, too, your apologetics does not really explain why your Muslim population is the most radical in Europe and poses such a threat to other countries. For the answer to that one, you need to look at yourself and your fellow Brits who make every excuse in the world for them.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

In a nutshell, Gardner.

Yes, by all means, let's give that kid all your lunch money when he threatens you, and after giving it to him, be very vocal in your defense of his reasons for shaking you down. That'll sure show him.

Would you please tell us what you mean yourself, Infinite? Though it's common amongst the whole Liberal-Left for it to constantly sound like they're thinking along those lines.

They need to express themselves better if, by unlikely coincidence, they're NOT a collective of crawlers and apologists after all.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

I read your actual views daily -- as in the way you share the same viewpoint as Islamists when it comes to attribution in regards to their terrorism. You have reduced terrorism to a simple-minded "they wouldn't terrorize us if we weren't in Afghanistan" (or Iraq, or have our bases in such and such, or whatever other convenient excuse) that is nothing but apologetics because it does not hold THEM responsible for their terrorism, does not understand the first thing about the ideology that drives them, and is nothing more than the mindless repetition of the same sort of policy of appeasement that got you blokes in trouble 70 years ago. This time, however, the totalitarians you are enabling are right in your midst instead of a foreign country.

Such marvellous insight. I guess you’re going to reveal the real reason al-Qaeda doesn’t bother to target other countries that have no historic involvement with Iraq and Afghanistan with a masterful flourish to show us just how clever you are.

I’m all agog at your stupendousness.

Of course, too, your apologetics does not really explain why your Muslim population is the most radical in Europe and poses such a threat to other countries. For the answer to that one, you need to look at yourself and your fellow Brits who make every excuse in the world for them.

Yes, and I expect you will equally reduce me to tears by demonstrating my “apologia” at some opportune moment. I really can’t wait for that date. In the meantime, us mere lesser mortals shall just bathe in your genius IQ. You really ought to work for the CIA and give the rest of us tips in how to secure our poor little countries.

They need to express themselves better if, by unlikely coincidence, they're NOT a collective of crawlers and apologists after all.

Ah, I did express myself regarding the merit and quality of both the thread and the author. Weren’t you reading my last few posts?

 

[Gardener]

Though it's common amongst the whole Liberal-Left for it to constantly sound like they're thinking along those lines.

I sure wouldn't use the term "liberal" to define this tendency, but the illiberal leftists who talk out of both sides of their mouth like they do only make their very tepid claims that they don't actually support what they have spent so much time justifying as a way to avoid the responsibility for what they are actually saying. It certainly gets tedious reading hundreds upon hundreds of comments placing the responsibility for Islamist terrorism on anything but the Islamists and then reading all the accompanying denial that they really do not support it. They may not THINK they are supporting it when all their effort goes towards attributing the cause to anything but the actual terrorists, and they certainly cry foul at any mention that there is a pattern to their rhetoric when they whine about how they expect others to just assume they hold views they never express, but at some point you just have to disredard all their self-serving denial and regard their attitudes for what they actually represent.

There is a causal relationship between the radicalization of British Muslims and the way so much of the British public runs interference for them. They are enabling the radicalization through this cult-like brand of multiculturalism they support that allows for no real criticism of the Islamist ideology or the actions perpetrated by Islamists.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

....tin-foil hat brigade?

Daft.

Wrong as usual. He didn’t actually want war against us to begin with.

'Begin with' implies 1938-9.

Then you can try and deny that the German generals had to consider an invasion of England as part of their plans for over-running Europe, that Hitler had firm anti-British views by 1939 and that von Ribbentrop convinced Hitler the West would do nothing over Poland, yet he was wrong.

Joachim von Ribbentrop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Spain pulled its troops out of Afghanistan as a direct result of the Madrid bombings. The electorate decided to vote in a govt committed to non-involvement

What good little boys the Spaniards were after they had their bottoms smacked by the poor, misunderstood Islamonuts. (The way Islamics behave, you'd assume 9/11 and all the others were WESTERN atrocities!) 'Justice' won in the end, eh Left?!

And that re-iterates my point that the Spanish weren't as full-square behind the coalition action.

OK, you’ve restarted this pointless thread with one of your mulberry bush posts.

Just because you don't agree doesn't mean the uncomfortable facts are wrong.

Wevisionism, did you say?!

Weren’t you reading my last few posts?

Yes, I've finished them.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Daft.

Yes, daft tin-foil hat wearing brigade. I agree with you too - you must also agree it was the UK who trained Usama and helped bring him to power.

-- 'Begin with' implies 1938-9.

Then you can try and deny that the German generals had to consider an invasion of England as part of their plans for over-running Europe, that Hitler had firm anti-British views by 1939 and that von Ribbentrop convinced Hitler the West would do nothing over Poland, yet he was wrong.

Joachim von Ribbentrop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Excellent link, it totally failed to spear my argument. Your own van Ribbentrop link explains that he tried to persuade Hitler of a potential alliance against the USSR. I said beforehand that Hitler didn't want war against us to begin with and then you say I'm wrong?

Under Ribbentrop's influence, Hitler grew increasingly anti-British, though he never fully embraced Ribbentrop's anti-British foreign policy programme, which as the German historian Andreas Hillgruber noted was the "very opposite" of Hitler's foreign programme, which saw an anti-Soviet alliance with Britain as the best course

You are entirely suited to the other fellow. The two of you around a mulberry bush, convinced that Islamic terrorists are the UK's fault. Calling everyone else an "apologist"

-- What good little boys the Spaniards were after they had their bottoms smacked by the poor, misunderstood Islamonuts. (The way Islamics behave, you'd assume 9/11 and all the others were WESTERN atrocities!) 'Justice' won in the end, eh Left?!

And that re-iterates my point that the Spanish weren't as full-square behind the coalition action.

Read it your own way in that merry wevisionist dance of yours. al-Qaeda warned the European nations, bombed Spain and Spain voted itself out. France never had combat troops on the front line and was less of a target - we were and still are directly there and as a result had 7/7. Oh but wait - that's appeasement to the intellectual geniuses on this thread. We didn't run away and are still there.

-- Just because you don't agree doesn't mean the uncomfortable facts are wrong.

Wevisionism, did you say?!

Yes, trying to pretend al-Qaeda did not bomb Spain out of Afghanistan through the threat tp Spanish cities is "wevisionism"

-- Yes, I've finished them.

No, I confidently predict this pointless exchange will continue as long as you and the other fellow call anyone "not with you" "dhimmi" / "apologists" / illiberal-left (such a clever term of phrase) "appeasers" etc

 

[PeteEU]

Read it your own way in that merry wevisionist dance of yours. al-Qaeda warned the European nations, bombed Spain and Spain voted itself out. F

Sorry to butt in, but that is not true or provable. The Spanish conservative government at the time was highly unpopular, corrupt and full of scandals. Polls up to election day and before the bombing had the race in margin of error and when the then conservative government put foot in mouth and blamed ETA for the bombings, the tipping point came and the voters showed their anger against the sitting government.

Spain has had terror for decades, many decades before the US found out about it, and many decades before Islamic terror was around. Not once in the democratic age has the electorate voted out of fear of terror.. in fact the opposite. And it did not happen in 2003 either. It was domestic issues plus the incompetence of the Aznar government that lead to the downfall of the ruling conservative party... and they STILL have not recovered from it.

 

[Grant]

Source mi5 on al-qaida

Source mi5 on al-qaida and the uk

Source mi5 on international terrorism and the uk

There have always been problems with terrorist groups in Europe, without rehashing 60+ pages of garbage - our involvement with the US in Afghanistan made us a target. That has been explained to people like you umpteen times but it doesn't help your agenda to discuss this does it?

It's always someone else's fault despite all those terrorist groups in Europe over the years and the world wars created there. And of course it continues to be the American's fault, despite your own lax immigration laws.

That seems to be the latest UK foreign policy strategy. Appease those who would do you harm, no matter how much fawning it takes and how negatively it effects the British people, and blame all the consequences on the Americans, the only ones who would, or could, have helped you. Instead you alienate both the American government and its people. Brilliant!

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Yes, daft tin-foil hat wearing brigade. I agree with you too - you must also agree it was the UK who trained Usama and helped bring him to power.

The USA actually gets the credit for the travesties of BOTH Osamas.. the CIA trained one and 95% of African-Americans helped vote in the other.

Would you prefer to wear the foil hat you foist on me? It would go much better on you.

Excellent link, it totally failed to spear my argument.

An argument always empty as I never denied Hitler wanted war with Britain since he changed his mind from an undetermined point anyway. I was talking about Hitler's making us an attack target since he invaded Poland and then you started banging on about his not wanting war with us before that. (And even then he had to consider it as far back as 1936.)

Read it your own way in that merry wevisionist dance of yours. al-Qaeda warned the European nations, bombed Spain and Spain voted itself out.

And these Islamonuts believe in beating their wives too. Like domestic affairs, like international diplomacy with these people.

Yes, trying to pretend al-Qaeda did not bomb Spain out of Afghanistan through the threat tp Spanish cities is "wevisionism"

I made no claim on that, only what I wrote above.

And this is an interesting Liberal-Left changeabout on the suddenly mighty Al Qaeda. Usually the line is 'the terrorists scarcely make an impact on anything and it's only the fear-mongering newspapers and public blowing it up out of all proportion'.

 

[Grant]

You’re so kind as to save me from having to explain my actual views by kindly making some up for me. What I admire most about your posts is the highly intelligent and honest way you so cleverly insert your own interpretation of someone else’s words.

You're a veritable beacon of honesty and integrity.

Your words speak for themselves. There is no need to reinterpret them.

You are justifying terrorism by blaming it on others, mostly on the Americans of course, and not the terrorists themselves.

 

[Grant]

Yes, daft tin-foil hat wearing brigade. I agree with you too - you must also agree it was the UK who trained Usama and helped bring him to power.

Bring him to power? He took the power! The UK certainly didn't train OBL in the ways of terrorism. That was his decision. Why not blame Islam for the actions of OBL? It would make far more sense. Or has the politically correct atmosphere in the UK completely turned brains too mush?

You are entirely suited to the other fellow. The two of you around a mulberry bush, convinced that Islamic terrorists are the UK's fault. Calling everyone else an "apologist"

But of course no one said that "Islamic terrorists are the UK's fault", which is why Leftists seldom use direct quotes. It's being pointed out that terrorism is the fault of terrorists, Islamic most recently, and that's where the blame should lie.

Apparently it's easier for the Leftists to blame everyone but Muslims for the attacks on them, despite Islam being the source. All the Left does is offer Muslims justification and excuses for terrorism, and will continue their defense no matter what the cost. That's just what they do, and what they have always done in similar circumstances.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Sorry to butt in, but that is not true or provable. The Spanish conservative government at the time was highly unpopular, corrupt and full of scandals. Polls up to election day and before the bombing had the race in margin of error and when the then conservative government put foot in mouth and blamed ETA for the bombings, the tipping point came and the voters showed their anger against the sitting government.

Spain has had terror for decades, many decades before the US found out about it, and many decades before Islamic terror was around. Not once in the democratic age has the electorate voted out of fear of terror.. in fact the opposite. And it did not happen in 2003 either. It was domestic issues plus the incompetence of the Aznar government that lead to the downfall of the ruling conservative party... and they STILL have not recovered from it.

My mistake was claiming that it was Afghanistan (I was busy at the same time as replying) - Spain remains involved in Afghanistan to this day. As for events - there is a direct timeline with threats made against coalition countries in Iraq and then attacks made. Spain was the most devastating in europe and Spanish troops were soon after pulled out. The timeline is clear.

Zapatero was clear cut in his condemnation of Spain's involvement in a war that was not backed by the UN - that too is clear.

In his first remarks to reporters since his party's defeat of the center-right Popular Party candidate on Sunday, Prime Minister-elect José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero had only scathing criticism for the American-led war against Iraq, which his party, like 90 percent of the Spanish people, opposed.

"The war has been a disaster, the occupation continues to be a great disaster," Mr. Zapatero said on the Spanish radio station Cadena SER. "It hasn't generated anything but more violence and hate. What simply cannot be is that — after it became so clear how badly it was handled — there be no consequences. Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair will have to reflect and engage in some self-criticism, so things like that don't happen again."

Alluding to the assertions by Prime Minister José María Aznar, Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain and President Bush that the conflict had been justified by the conviction — still unproven — that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction that posed an imminent threat, he added: "You can't organize a war on the basis of lies. You can't bomb a people just in case." NYTimes Source

It is my opinion however that the Madrid bombings certainly helped speed up the decision to remove Spanish troops from that theatre

The USA actually gets the credit for the travesties of BOTH Osamas.. the CIA trained one and 95% of African-Americans helped vote in the other.

Would you prefer to wear the foil hat you foist on me? It would go much better on you.

"ironic statement"- check a dictionary statement then go back and read my reply to the other fellow.

-- An argument always empty as I never denied Hitler wanted war with Britain since he changed his mind from an undetermined point anyway. I was talking about Hitler's making us an attack target since he invaded Poland and then you started banging on about his not wanting war with us before that. (And even then he had to consider it as far back as 1936.)

OK, so basically you were blowing hot air and not actually making a point. I love the "I never said" or "never denied" I get from you guys when cornered.

And these Islamonuts believe in beating their wives too. Like domestic affairs, like international diplomacy with these people.

"Wevisionism" -if you made a tune out of it, you'd go far.

-- I made no claim on that--

As predicted...

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

"ironic statement"

Indeed. His 'state of the Union' speech was on yesterday. And from people I speak to, the Union is indeed in one.

OK, so basically you were blowing hot air and not actually making a point.

If so, a copycat tactic. But in reality taking out words put in a mouth. And to think you moaned on about people doing the same to you.

Indeed it was never refuted that Hitler did indeed put his mind to attacking Britain after we declared war on him for invading Poland.

"Wevisionism" -if you made a tune out of it, you'd go far.

Well you already have the one-word lyric readymade.