Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not [W:775]

[ataraxia]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

Show me MeMattei's best ONE (1, just 1) Gospel 'contradiction' and let's see how he does. I want his speciality de la maison, la creme de la creme, the mother of all Gospel contradictions.

Let’s start with these:
GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.

GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.

GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.

https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html

 

[Mizzy22]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

Re: atheists know more about religion than the religious


Nope. Sorry. These are facts. Basic questions about about Bible facts. Don’t need the holy spiritual for the basics. Not opinions.

Why Do Atheists Know More About Religion? - The Atlantic

Admitting you don't know the Holy Spirit,is an admission you don't know one way or another how the Holy Spirit might or might not help you.

 

[zyzygy]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

Let’s start with these:
GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.

GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.

GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.

And so forth. The bible is full of contradictions.

 

[zyzygy]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

Only in their own minds.
The Bible is impossible to truly understand without the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Does the holy spirit switch off your brain so that you don't spot the contradictions and mistakes?

 

[Daisy]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

Let’s start with these:
GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.

GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.

GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.

How could God produce light on the first day if the luminaries were not made until the fourth day? The Hebrew word rendered “make” in Ge 1 verse 16 is not the same as the word for “create” used in Genesis 1:1, 21, 27 chapter 1, verses 1, 21, and 27. “The heavens” that included the luminaries were created long before the “first day” even began. But their light did not reach the surface of the earth. On the first day, “there came to be light” because diffused light penetrated the cloud layers and became visible on the earth. The rotating earth thus began to have alternating day and night. (Genesis 1:1-3, 5) The sources of that light still remained invisible from the earth. During the fourth creative period, however, a notable change took place. The sun, the moon, and the stars were now made “to shine upon the earth.” (Genesis 1:17) “God proceeded to make” them in that they could now be seen from the earth.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2004004#h=10:0-10:923

You do realize Gen 2:4-9 was talking specifically about how God prepared the Garden of Eden for man to live in, right?:roll:

As for the birds, there is no contradiction there, either...had been forming...as in past tense, you do understand what past tense means, don't you?...:roll:

"Now Jehovah God had been forming from the ground every wild animal of the field and every flying creature of the heavens, and he began bringing them to the man to see what he would call each one; and whatever the man would call each living creature,* that became its name." Gen 2:19

 

[Logicman]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

Let’s start with these:
GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.

GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.

GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.

Not Gospel contradictions.

 

[ataraxia]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

Not Gospel contradictions.

Oh, OK. I guess so much for the 10 commandments. As far as the NT

MT 17:1-2 The Transfiguration occurs six days after Jesus foretells his suffering.
LK 9:28-29 It takes place about eight days afterwards.

MT 20:20-21 The mother of James and John asks Jesus a favor for her sons.
MK 10:35-37 They ask for themselves.

MT 20:23, MK 10:40 Jesus responds that it is not his to give.
MT 28:18, JN 3:35 All authority has been given to Jesus.

MK 3:29 Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin.
AC 13:39, CN 2:13, 1JN 1:9 All sins are forgivable.

MK 4:11-12, 11:25 Jesus says that he uses parables so that the meaning of some of his teachings will remain secret to at least some persons. He explains the meanings of the parables only to his disciples. He thanks God for hiding some things from the wise while revealing them to "babes."
JN 18:20 Jesus says that he always taught openly, never secretly.

MK 6:16 Herod was the source of the belief that John had been raised from the dead.
LK 9:7 Others were the source. Herod was perplexed by the belief.

https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html

 

[Logicman]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

Oh, OK. I guess so much for the 10 commandments. As far as the NT

MT 17:1-2 The Transfiguration occurs six days after Jesus foretells his suffering.
LK 9:28-29 It takes place about eight days afterwards.

MT 20:20-21 The mother of James and John asks Jesus a favor for her sons.
MK 10:35-37 They ask for themselves.

MT 20:23, MK 10:40 Jesus responds that it is not his to give.
MT 28:18, JN 3:35 All authority has been given to Jesus.

MK 3:29 Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin.
AC 13:39, CN 2:13, 1JN 1:9 All sins are forgivable.

MK 4:11-12, 11:25 Jesus says that he uses parables so that the meaning of some of his teachings will remain secret to at least some persons. He explains the meanings of the parables only to his disciples. He thanks God for hiding some things from the wise while revealing them to "babes."
JN 18:20 Jesus says that he always taught openly, never secretly.

MK 6:16 Herod was the source of the belief that John had been raised from the dead.
LK 9:7 Others were the source. Herod was perplexed by the belief.

2CO 12:16 Paul says that he does use trickery.
1TH 2:3 Paul says that he does not use trickery.

GA 6:2 Bear one another's burdens.
GA 6:5 Bear your own burden.

1TH 2:2 God gave Paul the courage to continue his work.
1TH 2:17-18 Satan hindered Paul.
(Note: Who is stronger, Satan or God?)

LK 1:15 John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit from before his birth or the birth of Jesus.
LK 1:41 Elizabeth had it long before Jesus went away.
LK 1:67 So did Zechariah.
LK 2:25 So did Simeon.
LK 11:13 It is obtained by prayer (presumably at any time).
JN 7:39, JN 16:7, AC 1:3-5 The Holy Spirit cannot come into the world until after Jesus has departed.

LK 8:12 The Devil causes unbelief.
MK 4:11-12 Jesus is responsible for unbelief in at least some cases.
2TH 2:11-12 God is ultimately responsible for unbelief in at least some cases.

LK 14:26 No one can be a disciple of Jesus unless he hates his parents, wife, children, brothers and sisters.
1JN 3:15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer.
1JN 4:20 If anyone claims to love God but hates his brother, he is a liar.

1TI 1:15 Paul says that he is the foremost of sinners.
1JN 3:8-10 He who commits sin is of the Devil. Children of God do not sin.

1TI 6:20, 2TI 2:14-16, 3:1-7 Do not argue with an unbeliever.
2JN 1:10-11 Anyone who even greets an unbeliever shares his wicked work.
CN 4:5-6 Be wise in your behavior with outsiders. Let your talk be with grace, mixed with salt, so that you may be able to give an answer to everyone.
1PE 3:15 Always be ready to answer any man concerning your faith.

JA 4:5 (Quotes an alleged OT scripture verse not found in the OT.)

RE 8:7 All of the grass on earth is burned up, and then ...
RE 9:4 An army of locusts, which is about to be turned loose on the earth, is instructed not to harm the grass.

Pick your best ONE (1) out of that mess.

 

[ataraxia]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

Pick your best ONE (1) out of that mess.

It is a mess. I’ll let you choose.

 

[zyzygy]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

Oh, OK. I guess so much for the 10 commandments. As far as the NT

MT 17:1-2 The Transfiguration occurs six days after Jesus foretells his suffering.
LK 9:28-29 It takes place about eight days afterwards.

MT 20:20-21 The mother of James and John asks Jesus a favor for her sons.
MK 10:35-37 They ask for themselves.

MT 20:23, MK 10:40 Jesus responds that it is not his to give.
MT 28:18, JN 3:35 All authority has been given to Jesus.

MK 3:29 Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin.
AC 13:39, CN 2:13, 1JN 1:9 All sins are forgivable.

MK 4:11-12, 11:25 Jesus says that he uses parables so that the meaning of some of his teachings will remain secret to at least some persons. He explains the meanings of the parables only to his disciples. He thanks God for hiding some things from the wise while revealing them to "babes."
JN 18:20 Jesus says that he always taught openly, never secretly.

MK 6:16 Herod was the source of the belief that John had been raised from the dead.
LK 9:7 Others were the source. Herod was perplexed by the belief.

2CO 12:16 Paul says that he does use trickery.
1TH 2:3 Paul says that he does not use trickery.

GA 6:2 Bear one another's burdens.
GA 6:5 Bear your own burden.

1TH 2:2 God gave Paul the courage to continue his work.
1TH 2:17-18 Satan hindered Paul.
(Note: Who is stronger, Satan or God?)

LK 1:15 John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit from before his birth or the birth of Jesus.
LK 1:41 Elizabeth had it long before Jesus went away.
LK 1:67 So did Zechariah.
LK 2:25 So did Simeon.
LK 11:13 It is obtained by prayer (presumably at any time).
JN 7:39, JN 16:7, AC 1:3-5 The Holy Spirit cannot come into the world until after Jesus has departed.

LK 8:12 The Devil causes unbelief.
MK 4:11-12 Jesus is responsible for unbelief in at least some cases.
2TH 2:11-12 God is ultimately responsible for unbelief in at least some cases.

LK 14:26 No one can be a disciple of Jesus unless he hates his parents, wife, children, brothers and sisters.
1JN 3:15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer.
1JN 4:20 If anyone claims to love God but hates his brother, he is a liar.

1TI 1:15 Paul says that he is the foremost of sinners.
1JN 3:8-10 He who commits sin is of the Devil. Children of God do not sin.

1TI 6:20, 2TI 2:14-16, 3:1-7 Do not argue with an unbeliever.
2JN 1:10-11 Anyone who even greets an unbeliever shares his wicked work.
CN 4:5-6 Be wise in your behavior with outsiders. Let your talk be with grace, mixed with salt, so that you may be able to give an answer to everyone.
1PE 3:15 Always be ready to answer any man concerning your faith.

JA 4:5 (Quotes an alleged OT scripture verse not found in the OT.)

RE 8:7 All of the grass on earth is burned up, and then ...
RE 9:4 An army of locusts, which is about to be turned loose on the earth, is instructed not to harm the grass.

Believers will do anything except address those points.

 

[Logicman]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

MK 4:11-12, 11:25 Jesus says that he uses parables so that the meaning of some of his teachings will remain secret to at least some persons. He explains the meanings of the parables only to his disciples. He thanks God for hiding some things from the wise while revealing them to "babes."
JN 18:20 Jesus says that he always taught openly, never secretly.

Mark 4:11-12
He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that,

“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’

Mark 11:25 - "And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”


John 18:20 - “I have spoken openly to the world,” Jesus replied. “I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret."

So, this is your claim to fame! It doesn't wash. Jesus didn't teach that parable in secret, he told it to his disciples (Mark 4:10).

And Mark 4:11-12 was a secret about the kingdom of God. But it wasn't told in secret, it was told to the disciples. A big distinction.

Finally, there are probably dozens of websites that provide responses to alleged contradictions. Did you visit any of those to see if your examples were viable? I doubt it.

 

[Logicman]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

Believers will do anything except address those points.

I just addressed and busted one. So your claim is just another one of your worthless fulminations.

 

[Daisy]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

Oh, OK. I guess so much for the 10 commandments. As far as the NT

MT 17:1-2 The Transfiguration occurs six days after Jesus foretells his suffering.
LK 9:28-29 It takes place about eight days afterwards.

MT 20:20-21 The mother of James and John asks Jesus a favor for her sons.
MK 10:35-37 They ask for themselves.

MT 20:23, MK 10:40 Jesus responds that it is not his to give.
MT 28:18, JN 3:35 All authority has been given to Jesus.

MK 3:29 Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin.
AC 13:39, CN 2:13, 1JN 1:9 All sins are forgivable.

MK 4:11-12, 11:25 Jesus says that he uses parables so that the meaning of some of his teachings will remain secret to at least some persons. He explains the meanings of the parables only to his disciples. He thanks God for hiding some things from the wise while revealing them to "babes."
JN 18:20 Jesus says that he always taught openly, never secretly.

MK 6:16 Herod was the source of the belief that John had been raised from the dead.
LK 9:7 Others were the source. Herod was perplexed by the belief.

2CO 12:16 Paul says that he does use trickery.
1TH 2:3 Paul says that he does not use trickery.

GA 6:2 Bear one another's burdens.
GA 6:5 Bear your own burden.

1TH 2:2 God gave Paul the courage to continue his work.
1TH 2:17-18 Satan hindered Paul.
(Note: Who is stronger, Satan or God?)

LK 1:15 John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit from before his birth or the birth of Jesus.
LK 1:41 Elizabeth had it long before Jesus went away.
LK 1:67 So did Zechariah.
LK 2:25 So did Simeon.
LK 11:13 It is obtained by prayer (presumably at any time).
JN 7:39, JN 16:7, AC 1:3-5 The Holy Spirit cannot come into the world until after Jesus has departed.

LK 8:12 The Devil causes unbelief.
MK 4:11-12 Jesus is responsible for unbelief in at least some cases.
2TH 2:11-12 God is ultimately responsible for unbelief in at least some cases.

LK 14:26 No one can be a disciple of Jesus unless he hates his parents, wife, children, brothers and sisters.
1JN 3:15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer.
1JN 4:20 If anyone claims to love God but hates his brother, he is a liar.

1TI 1:15 Paul says that he is the foremost of sinners.
1JN 3:8-10 He who commits sin is of the Devil. Children of God do not sin.

1TI 6:20, 2TI 2:14-16, 3:1-7 Do not argue with an unbeliever.
2JN 1:10-11 Anyone who even greets an unbeliever shares his wicked work.
CN 4:5-6 Be wise in your behavior with outsiders. Let your talk be with grace, mixed with salt, so that you may be able to give an answer to everyone.
1PE 3:15 Always be ready to answer any man concerning your faith.

JA 4:5 (Quotes an alleged OT scripture verse not found in the OT.)

RE 8:7 All of the grass on earth is burned up, and then ...
RE 9:4 An army of locusts, which is about to be turned loose on the earth, is instructed not to harm the grass.

Wherever these came from, their ignorance of the Bible is showing...

 

[Quag]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

Believers will do anything except address those points.

Illogicman is not a believer

 

[zyzygy]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

Illogicman is not a believer

He's a militant atheist.

 

[it's just me]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

Oh, OK. I guess so much for the 10 commandments. As far as the NT

MT 17:1-2 The Transfiguration occurs six days after Jesus foretells his suffering.
LK 9:28-29 It takes place about eight days afterwards.

MT 20:20-21 The mother of James and John asks Jesus a favor for her sons.
MK 10:35-37 They ask for themselves.

MT 20:23, MK 10:40 Jesus responds that it is not his to give.
MT 28:18, JN 3:35 All authority has been given to Jesus.

MK 3:29 Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin.
AC 13:39, CN 2:13, 1JN 1:9 All sins are forgivable.

MK 4:11-12, 11:25 Jesus says that he uses parables so that the meaning of some of his teachings will remain secret to at least some persons. He explains the meanings of the parables only to his disciples. He thanks God for hiding some things from the wise while revealing them to "babes."
JN 18:20 Jesus says that he always taught openly, never secretly.

MK 6:16 Herod was the source of the belief that John had been raised from the dead.
LK 9:7 Others were the source. Herod was perplexed by the belief.

https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html

Gish gallop...

 

[Quag]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

He's a militant atheist.

Well he does his best to make Christians look silly

 

[Ploughboy]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

It all depends on how you want to define literalism. If it is defined by believing the dragon in Revelation will be a real flying dragon that breaths fire then that is incorrect exegesis. But if we know what the dragon symbolizes then that is the more literal way to interpret it. There are some people who read the KJV Only and they do not understand what they are reading in this old English Bible. They confuse figures of speech and take it literally. But there is another form of literalism which should not be so attacked. That is the literalist who believes the Bible is literally true. This literalist knows what the figurative language means, having a good understanding of prophecy and not taking literal expressions and words meant to be taken figuratively. So it really all depends on how we define literalism and who we are talking about?

 

[zyzygy]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

It all depends on how you want to define literalism. If it is defined by believing the dragon in Revelation will be a real flying dragon that breaths fire then that is incorrect exegesis. But if we know what the dragon symbolizes then that is the more literal way to interpret it. There are some people who read the KJV Only and they do not understand what they are reading in this old English Bible. They confuse figures of speech and take it literally. But there is another form of literalism which should not be so attacked. That is the literalist who believes the Bible is literally true. This literalist knows what the figurative language means, having a good understanding of prophecy and not taking literal expressions and words meant to be taken figuratively. So it really all depends on how we define literalism and who we are talking about?

Look up the meaning of the word literal.

 

[RAMOSS]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

Only in their own minds.
The Bible is impossible to truly understand without the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Let's see you show evidence for this statement. Also, please explain why so many people who claim the guidance of the holy spirit disagree with each other.

 

[gfm7175]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

Isaiah 53 is not about Jesus. The suffering servaant is Isaiah 53 is the nation of Israel.

Isaiah 53: The Suffering Servant

It's about Jesus, as Logicman asserted... There's NO way that's about Israel... The chapter in Isaiah speaks of a "he" and it speaks of what Jesus was going to go through...

 

[Mizzy22]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

Let's see you show evidence for this statement. Also, please explain why so many people who claim the guidance of the holy spirit disagree with each other.

I don't need to prove anything to anybody but myself!

 

[Daisy]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

I don't need to prove anything to anybody but myself!

Yep, he just doesn't get that and keeps demanding evidence...like anyone can do his work for him...lazy is his name...lol...

 

[RAMOSS]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

It's about Jesus, as Logicman asserted... There's NO way that's about Israel... The chapter in Isaiah speaks of a "he" and it speaks of what Jesus was going to go through...

You won't find one Rabbi that is Orthodox, Reform, Conservative, reconstructionist , or humanistic that will agree. If you read the fourth servant song in it's entirety, it specifically states the servant is Israel. But, don't let context get in the way of your claims.

 

[Mizzy22]

Re: Taking the Bible Literally -- Or Not

You won't find one Rabbi that is Orthodox, Reform, Conservative, reconstructionist , or humanistic that will agree. If you read the fourth servant song in it's entirety, it specifically states the servant is Israel. But, don't let context get in the way of your claims.

If you had as much Biblical Knowledge as you think you have,you would know that at the End of the Age of the Gentiles.
When the Messiah is Spiritually revealed to the Jews.
Every Rabbi in Orthodox,Reform,and Conservative,will shout from the hill tops Isaiah 53,is about Jesus the Messiah!