Socialism Destroys

[LowDown]

When Castro took power in Cuba the people cheered because they thought that everyone would be equal and would want for nothing.

But Castro's government failed to run the economy in a rational or efficient manner, and Castro discarded democracy, using the military to maintain power. Many rights and freedoms were lost because only with coercion by force could Castro's socialist ideal be maintained. So everyone suffered and continue to suffer, and most of them have no way to escape this hell.

A few have managed to escape. One survivor, describing conditions in present day Cuba, said, "You don't see any future. Everything is stagnated. Health care, education—nowadays they're in ruins."

"[People who support socialism] should wake up," says Gloria Alvarez. She is from Guatemala and says, "I've seen the impact of socialism. My father escaped Cuba. My grandfather suffered under Communists in Hungary before escaping."

[...]

"As a child, I was taught to mock socialism," she says, "but democratic socialism sounded OK. It made sense that government should take care of the economy. Then I watched democratic socialism fail in Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, El Salvador, Chile, Nicaragua, and Uruguay. I learned that every time a country started down the socialist path, it fails."

https://reason.com/archives/2018/10/10/socialism-destroys

 

[Ikari]

When Castro took power in Cuba the people cheered because they thought that everyone would be equal and would want for nothing.

But Castro's government failed to run the economy in a rational or efficient manner, and Castro discarded democracy, using the military to maintain power. Many rights and freedoms were lost because only with coercion by force could Castro's socialist ideal be maintained. So everyone suffered and continue to suffer, and most of them have no way to escape this hell.

A few have managed to escape. One survivor, describing conditions in present day Cuba, said, "You don't see any future. Everything is stagnated. Health care, education—nowadays they're in ruins."

"[People who support socialism] should wake up," says Gloria Alvarez. She is from Guatemala and says, "I've seen the impact of socialism. My father escaped Cuba. My grandfather suffered under Communists in Hungary before escaping."

[...]

"As a child, I was taught to mock socialism," she says, "but democratic socialism sounded OK. It made sense that government should take care of the economy. Then I watched democratic socialism fail in Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, El Salvador, Chile, Nicaragua, and Uruguay. I learned that every time a country started down the socialist path, it fails."

https://reason.com/archives/2018/10/10/socialism-destroys

Actual socialism is a damaging government structure.

Thankfully what we call "democratic socialism" isn't actually socialism, there's no attempt to control means of production. It's just a system of social programs to make sure that there's some base level of coverage and protection for all citizens.

Being social doesn't mean being socialist.

 

[MrWonka]

When Castro took power in Cuba
....

Then I watched democratic socialism fail in Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, El Salvador, Chile, Nicaragua, and Uruguay.

HAHAHAHA!!!! What is it with you people and Cuba and Venezuela. That's not Democratic Socialism, that's totalitarianism. Democratic Socialism in the style of Bernie Sanders has been working very very well in Canada, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, France, Finland, Germany, Australia....

In fact, if you look at rankings of countries in the world by their quality of life you'll find that every country that's ahead of America has policies very similar to what Bernie Sanders is advocating for. You can quit with the Venezuela and Cuba crap they're not comparable at all.

 

[MrWonka]

Actual socialism is a damaging government structure.

Thankfully what we call "democratic socialism" isn't actually socialism,

Which is why Democratic Socialists are idiots for calling it that. Regulatory capitalism, Nash Capitalism, Social Capitalism, or frankly just regular old capitalism with a strong social safety net... All of these would be a better much less confusing name that would not give the right an unnecessary talking point.

 

[Tigerace117]

When Castro took power in Cuba the people cheered because they thought that everyone would be equal and would want for nothing.

But Castro's government failed to run the economy in a rational or efficient manner, and Castro discarded democracy, using the military to maintain power. Many rights and freedoms were lost because only with coercion by force could Castro's socialist ideal be maintained. So everyone suffered and continue to suffer, and most of them have no way to escape this hell.

A few have managed to escape. One survivor, describing conditions in present day Cuba, said, "You don't see any future. Everything is stagnated. Health care, education—nowadays they're in ruins."

"[People who support socialism] should wake up," says Gloria Alvarez. She is from Guatemala and says, "I've seen the impact of socialism. My father escaped Cuba. My grandfather suffered under Communists in Hungary before escaping."

[...]

"As a child, I was taught to mock socialism," she says, "but democratic socialism sounded OK. It made sense that government should take care of the economy. Then I watched democratic socialism fail in Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, El Salvador, Chile, Nicaragua, and Uruguay. I learned that every time a country started down the socialist path, it fails."

https://reason.com/archives/2018/10/10/socialism-destroys

Cuba wasn’t a democracy in the first place under Bautista, so claimed that “democracy was discarded” isn’t really true.

Funny how the exact same thing is true every time a country starts down a far right wing path.

 

[Deuce]

When Castro took power in Cuba the people cheered because they thought that everyone would be equal and would want for nothing.

But Castro's government failed to run the economy in a rational or efficient manner, and Castro discarded democracy, using the military to maintain power. Many rights and freedoms were lost because only with coercion by force could Castro's socialist ideal be maintained. So everyone suffered and continue to suffer, and most of them have no way to escape this hell.

A few have managed to escape. One survivor, describing conditions in present day Cuba, said, "You don't see any future. Everything is stagnated. Health care, education—nowadays they're in ruins."

"[People who support socialism] should wake up," says Gloria Alvarez. She is from Guatemala and says, "I've seen the impact of socialism. My father escaped Cuba. My grandfather suffered under Communists in Hungary before escaping."

[...]

"As a child, I was taught to mock socialism," she says, "but democratic socialism sounded OK. It made sense that government should take care of the economy. Then I watched democratic socialism fail in Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, El Salvador, Chile, Nicaragua, and Uruguay. I learned that every time a country started down the socialist path, it fails."

https://reason.com/archives/2018/10/10/socialism-destroys

Huh. Not much discussion of Canada or Sweden.

 

[Deuce]

Which is why Democratic Socialists are idiots for calling it that. Regulatory capitalism, Nash Capitalism, Social Capitalism, or frankly just regular old capitalism with a strong social safety net... All of these would be a better much less confusing name that would not give the right an unnecessary talking point.

The right being too stupid to understand the difference between Canada and Cuba is a problem with the right, not the left.

 

[Renae]

Actual socialism is a damaging government structure.

Thankfully what we call "democratic socialism" isn't actually socialism, there's no attempt to control means of production. It's just a system of social programs to make sure that there's some base level of coverage and protection for all citizens.

Being social doesn't mean being socialist.

We know, "THIS TIME, THIS WAY, We'll get it right! TRUST US!!!" ROFL. It's like lemmings...

 

[MrWonka]

The right being too stupid to understand the difference between Canada and Cuba is a problem with the right, not the left.

What the right understands isn't the problem in this situation. The middle is the problem. By confusing the middle you make it easier for the right to con them.

 

[dex4974]

Most people on the left don't actually want socialism. What they want is Nordic capitalism. The Scandinavian countries operate under capitalism even though people constantly call it socialism. The left wants social safety nets and healthcare for all. They want young people to have access to college without needing to go into debt. They want people to make enough money at their jobs to live comfortably without needing welfare. Comparing what the left is fighting for to Venezuela or Cuba is dishonest at best.

 

[Redress]

Actual socialism is a damaging government structure.

Thankfully what we call "democratic socialism" isn't actually socialism, there's no attempt to control means of production. It's just a system of social programs to make sure that there's some base level of coverage and protection for all citizens.

Being social doesn't mean being socialist.

Who are you, and what have you done with my friend Ikari?

99 % of the time when some one calls others Socialist(or Statist), they are doing so because they cannot argue ideas, and so try and attach negative labels to others so they do not have to argue against their ideas. Much easier to say "you are a Socialist", than "you are wrong about <insert issue here> because...". Sanders is an ebil Socialist is easier than Sanders is wrong because he takes reasonable ideas and inflates them to the point they will not work. It is a tactic done largely by anti-liberals, people whose whole ideology is being opposed to liberals, like the OP(think he will catch the humor there?).

A list of words used to label instead of debate(ie words for those unable to debate: lefty, righty, socialist, commie, fascist, nazi, libtard, Trumper, statist, and many many more.

 

[MrWonka]

We know, "THIS TIME, THIS WAY, We'll get it right! TRUST US!!!" ROFL. It's like lemmings...

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/27/us-news-world-report-10-countries-with-the-best-quality-of-life.html

No America, Cuba or Venezuela anywhere on the list. Nothing but Democratic Socialist countries 1 through 10.

 

[Ikari]

We know, "THIS TIME, THIS WAY, We'll get it right! TRUST US!!!" ROFL. It's like lemmings...

No, it's just a statement of fact. I know that y'all like your little propaganda terms in order to deter actual debate or discussion, but it's common tactic of the hyperpartisan. But what we call "democratic socialism" in this country is not actually socialism.

But please, respond with another banal piece of propaganda tripe. It does oh so much for your position.

lol

 

[dex4974]

The right being too stupid to understand the difference between Canada and Cuba is a problem with the right, not the left.

It's a problem for the left, though, and it's not just the right that's too stupid to understand. There are a lot of votes in between that could be won if the message was worded differently.

 

[Redress]

Most people on the left don't actually want socialism. What they want is Nordic capitalism. The Scandinavian countries operate under capitalism even though people constantly call it socialism. The left wants social safety nets and healthcare for all. They want young people to have access to college without needing to go into debt. They want people to make enough money at their jobs to live comfortably without needing welfare. Comparing what the left is fighting for to Venezuela or Cuba is dishonest at best.

I am not sure I would say it is most, but certainly a fair number.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Actual socialism is a damaging government structure.

Thankfully what we call "democratic socialism" isn't actually socialism, there's no attempt to control means of production. It's just a system of social programs to make sure that there's some base level of coverage and protection for all citizens.

Being social doesn't mean being socialist.

Arguing against the right-wing "socialism" strawman is folly, imo. They see socialism in anything the government does, unless it's the military industrial complex - that is somehow exempted.

My maternal step-grandmother seemed to see communists everywhere. Ike and JFK were commies. That was the 1960's. Amazing how little has changed.

 

[dex4974]

I am not sure I would say it is most, but certainly a fair number.

Am I correct in assuming you are one of the left wing people that seeks the total annihilation of capitalism? I do not support the end of private property and business, at least not yet. The world is not ready for full blown socialism, and it won't be until AI has removed the need for human labor in my opinion. Capitalism can work for everybody and the Scandinavian countries have proven that. Don't let the way America has perverted capitalism turn you off to the idea completely. We should stick with what we know works for now and improve it.

 

[Redress]

No, it's just a statement of fact. I know that y'all like your little propaganda terms in order to deter actual debate or discussion, but it's common tactic of the hyperpartisan. But what we call "democratic socialism" in this country is not actually socialism.

But please, respond with another banal piece of propaganda tripe. It does oh so much for your position.

lol

No, really, who are you, and what have you done with my favorite libertarian? Are you a pod person maybe?

 

[Renae]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/27/us-news-world-report-10-countries-with-the-best-quality-of-life.html

No America, Cuba or Venezuela anywhere on the list. Nothing but Democratic Socialist countries 1 through 10.

Who gives a ****?

 

[Renae]

No, it's just a statement of fact. I know that y'all like your little propaganda terms in order to deter actual debate or discussion, but it's common tactic of the hyperpartisan. But what we call "democratic socialism" in this country is not actually socialism.

But please, respond with another banal piece of propaganda tripe. It does oh so much for your position.

lol

I know it's not the definition of socialism, it takes elements of socialism, puts the veneer or economic freedom on it and says "EVERYTHING IS WONDERFUL" But it's not, and I value my freedoms over the false security D. Socialist promise

 

[Redress]

Am I correct in assuming you are one of the left wing people that seeks the total annihilation of capitalism? I do not support the end of private property and business, at least not yet. The world is not ready for full blown socialism, and it won't be until AI has removed the need for human labor in my opinion. Capitalism can work for everybody and the Scandinavian countries have proven that. Don't let the way America has perverted capitalism turn you off to the idea completely. We should stick with what we know works for now and improve it.

No, I am one of those left wing people who is a capitalist, who understands the difference between supporting governmental programs and socialism. In other words, some one much like most on the left. Most of us do not want to go as far as you suggest, favor smaller changes over time, and generally are pretty moderate. Disagreeing with you in terms of how many want "nordic capitalism" does not mean I am a full blown pinko...

 

[dex4974]

No, I am one of those left wing people who is a capitalist, who understands the difference between supporting governmental programs and socialism. In other words, some one much like most on the left. Most of us do not want to go as far as you suggest, favor smaller changes over time, and generally are pretty moderate. Disagreeing with you in terms of how many want "nordic capitalism" does not mean I am a full blown pinko...

Well, good. Not too long ago I made the mistake of assuming almost nobody on the left considers themselves an opponent of capitalism. There are a lot more than I expected unfortunately.

 

[MrWonka]

Who gives a ****?

Well I mean if you want to be intellectually honest you should give a ****. All the countries following the path that Bernie wants to take us on are doing better than us not worse. Nothing is being destroyed at all, in fact, they're building a better world for their people than we are.

 

[Redress]

Well, good. Not too long ago I made the mistake of assuming almost nobody on the left considers themselves an opponent of capitalism. There are a lot more than I expected unfortunately.

There are not many of those type people, just as white supremacists do not make up a significant amount of right wingers. They just happen to be very loud.

 

[dex4974]

Well I mean if you want to be intellectually honest you should give a ****. All the countries following the path that Bernie wants to take us on are doing better than us not worse. Nothing is being destroyed at all, in fact, they're building a better world for their people than we are.

Clowns on the right actually believe that without our vast military those countries couldn't exist the way they do. They make it sound like people are just waiting for their moment to invade the EU. American conservatives are as arrogant as they are ignorant.