Should We Get Rid Of Monuments?

[James972]

Should we get rid of the Monuments?

Well, the Nazis, for example, got rid of all the monuments that seemed to show support for Nazism and replaced them with monuments that showed contrition and guilt for what they had done, and to this day they are still building more monuments. Should Southerners feel the same guilt? Hell yes, for being slow see the evil in slavery; hell no for wanting freedom from the central govt. Let's not forget that 99% of southern soldiers were not slave owners but rather proud, poor, independent, heroic Scotts Irish types who wanted their freedom and way of life just as much as the Boston patriots did during the American Revolution.

Thus, most Republican Federal govts, and Republicans,conservatives, and libertarians in general would probably want to keep the monuments while central govt loving, welfare dispensing Democrats would probably want to take down the monuments down.

But why? Don't Americans love to go to Europe to learn history through seeing 1000's of monuments regardless of their relationship to today's sense of morality? Should the death camps be hidden from us too?

There is great benefit in people walking by a monument and wondering what history made people care to built it. Conservatives in particular need to know history so they will know what history should be conserved. Liberals don't care to know history and one must suspect their Talibanish approach to monuments is for the same Talibanish purpose. Some liberals are already calling for the destruction of Jefferson and Madison, and their Declaration and Constitution since they were written by mere slave holders even though it was those slave holders who instantly reversed 10,000 of history and set in motion the process by which slaves were freed a few years later.

So, there are arguments on both sides to be sure, but on balance the monuments should be kept especially since they do not support slavery but rather lost lives, bravery, patriotism, loyalty incredible determination, and principles from greater than the self, qualities that we all hope we would have had, had we had the misfortune to have been born in Caesar's Rome, Napoleon's France, Hitler's Germany, or Lincoln's south. Lincoln did not want to destroy the South after he defeated it. Remember how he famously asked the band to play Dixie, a song and symbol of the south that he had not heard in a long time.

 

[Beaudreaux]

No...

 

[Parrish]

Yes.

Those who object to their removal don't have the character to admit why they want them to remain. The history and motives are clear. We're anonymous, just state your true feelings, and we can debate honestly.

 

[BillRM]

Should we get rid of the Monuments?

Well, the Nazis, for example, got rid of all the monuments that seemed to show support for Nazism and replaced them with monuments that showed contrition and guilt for what they had done, and to this day they are still building more monuments. Should Southerners feel the same guilt? Hell yes, for being slow see the evil in slavery; hell no for wanting freedom from the central govt. Let's not forget that 99% of southern soldiers were not slave owners but rather proud, poor, independent, heroic Scotts Irish types who wanted their freedom and way of life just as much as the Boston patriots did during the American Revolution.

Thus, most Republican Federal govts, and Republicans,conservatives, and libertarians in general would probably want to keep the monuments while central govt loving, welfare dispensing Democrats would probably want to take down the monuments down.

But why? Don't Americans love to go to Europe to learn history through seeing 1000's of monuments regardless of their relationship to today's sense of morality? Should the death camps be hidden from us too?

There is great benefit in people walking by a monument and wondering what history made people care to built it. Conservatives in particular need to know history so they will know what history should be conserved. Liberals don't care to know history and one must suspect their Talibanish approach to monuments is for the same Talibanish purpose. Some liberals are already calling for the destruction of Jefferson and Madison, and their Declaration and Constitution since they were written by mere slave holders even though it was those slave holders who instantly reversed 10,000 of history and set in motion the process by which slaves were freed a few years later.

So, there are arguments on both sides to be sure, but on balance the monuments should be kept especially since they do not support slavery but rather lost lives, bravery, patriotism, loyalty incredible determination, and principles from greater than the self, qualities that we all hope we would have had, had we had the misfortune to have been born in Caesar's Rome, Napoleon's France, Hitler's Germany, or Lincoln's south. Lincoln did not want to destroy the South after he defeated it. Remember how he famously asked the band to play Dixie, a song and symbol of the south that he had not heard in a long time.

Sorry but at least the statues that was created in the 1920s, 60 to 70 years after the civil war and to promote the southern Jim Crow era should be gone now that the racists and the nazis had embrace them for their own purposes once more.

Hell it is my opinion that Lee would agree with them being removed as after the civil war he did his best in his remaining lifetime to heal the wounds between the south and the north and those statues now they had been once more adopted by the racists is not helpful in that regard.

 

[Exquisitor]

Should we get rid of the Monuments?

Well, the Nazis, for example, got rid of all the monuments that seemed to show support for Nazism and replaced them with monuments that showed contrition and guilt for what they had done, and to this day they are still building more monuments. Should Southerners feel the same guilt? Hell yes, for being slow see the evil in slavery; hell no for wanting freedom from the central govt. Let's not forget that 99% of southern soldiers were not slave owners but rather proud, poor, independent, heroic Scotts Irish types who wanted their freedom and way of life just as much as the Boston patriots did during the American Revolution.

Thus, most Republican Federal govts, and Republicans,conservatives, and libertarians in general would probably want to keep the monuments while central govt loving, welfare dispensing Democrats would probably want to take down the monuments down.

But why? Don't Americans love to go to Europe to learn history through seeing 1000's of monuments regardless of their relationship to today's sense of morality? Should the death camps be hidden from us too?

There is great benefit in people walking by a monument and wondering what history made people care to built it. Conservatives in particular need to know history so they will know what history should be conserved. Liberals don't care to know history and one must suspect their Talibanish approach to monuments is for the same Talibanish purpose. Some liberals are already calling for the destruction of Jefferson and Madison, and their Declaration and Constitution since they were written by mere slave holders even though it was those slave holders who instantly reversed 10,000 of history and set in motion the process by which slaves were freed a few years later.

So, there are arguments on both sides to be sure, but on balance the monuments should be kept especially since they do not support slavery but rather lost lives, bravery, patriotism, loyalty incredible determination, and principles from greater than the self, qualities that we all hope we would have had, had we had the misfortune to have been born in Caesar's Rome, Napoleon's France, Hitler's Germany, or Lincoln's south. Lincoln did not want to destroy the South after he defeated it. Remember how he famously asked the band to play Dixie, a song and symbol of the south that he had not heard in a long time.

Jefferson and Madison, not only slave owners, but rapists.

In fifth grade I wondered at the Constitution, just out of the blue they go and give Congress the power to borrow money, right off the bat.

Washington warned his successors about partisanship and forming parties, but Madison formed his Party and Jefferson had to keep up with him and Jefferson's Party split in the two we have now.

How did they ever get monuments with the way they were treated by the North? North not very smart, bunch of meat eating head dummies, don't want to try to re-frame Constitution with any of them.

I don't live in the south, I've never been there, hardly south of Chicago except the West Coast, so I don't know how I would feel with Robert E Lee standing over me, but on the issue I'm neutral, but I think the feelings are strong in those who want monuments to come down, whereas those who care on the other side don't have much of a case.

If you shipped your Robert E Lee to my town?

I would think it was a riot, you should ship him all around the Country, like he is going out and conquering, burn incense and flowers etc.

Then you've pleased both Parties, the South gets its statues taken down and the devote get to honor their idols, and maybe they can find a new home if they like it someplace, I mean, if someplace likes them, "oh, come back, we want you to stay here."

Don't forget Kaiser's Germany, it was spank spank spank for Brit Admirals who slaughtered Indian cattle to break the backbone of their Religion.

 

[James972]

Jefferson and Madison, not only slave owners, but rapists.

In fifth grade I wondered at the Constitution, just out of the blue they go and give Congress the power to borrow money, right off the bat.

Washington warned his successors about partisanship and forming parties, but Madison formed his Party and Jefferson had to keep up with him and Jefferson's Party split in the two we have now.

How did they ever get monuments with the way they were treated by the North? North not very smart, bunch of meat eating head dummies, don't want to try to re-frame Constitution with any of them.

I don't live in the south, I've never been there, hardly south of Chicago except the West Coast, so I don't know how I would feel with Robert E Lee standing over me, but on the issue I'm neutral, but I think the feelings are strong in those who want monuments to come down, whereas those who care on the other side don't have much of a case.

If you shipped your Robert E Lee to my town?

I would think it was a riot, you should ship him all around the Country, like he is going out and conquering, burn incense and flowers etc.

Then you've pleased both Parties, the South gets its statues taken down and the devote get to honor their idols, and maybe they can find a new home if they like it someplace, I mean, if someplace likes them, "oh, come back, we want you to stay here."

Don't forget Kaiser's Germany, it was spank spank spank for Brit Admirals who slaughtered Indian cattle to break the backbone of their Religion.

meandering rant I have no idea what your point is. Do you? If so please let us know.

 

[James972]

Jefferson and Madison, not only slave owners, but rapists.

.

and Jesus Christ himself accepted slavery!! So lets get rid of them all and start over like Hitler Stalin and Mao did. There is no need to conserve the best of history rather we should just start history all over again-right?

 

[iguanaman]

Sorry but at least the statues that was created in the 1920s, 60 to 70 years after the civil war and to promote the southern Jim Crow era should be gone now that the racists and the nazis had embrace them for their own purposes once more.

Hell it is my opinion that Lee would agree with them being removed as after the civil war he did his best in his remaining lifetime to heal the wounds between the south and the north and those statues now they had been once more adopted by the racists is not helpful in that regard.

Don't fall for the myth of the benevolent General Lee, he never expressed regret for the 100's of 1000's that died on both sides because of his support for slavery. He choose to fight for the South when nearly half of Virginia military men chose to say with the union. That choice was because of his firm belief in white supremacy, something he never recanted.

T

he myth of Lee goes something like this: He was a brilliant strategist and devoted Christian man who abhorred slavery and labored tirelessly after the war to bring the country back together.

There is little truth in this. Lee was a devout Christian, and historians regard him as an accomplished tactician. But despite his ability to win individual battles, his decision to fight a conventional war against the more densely populated and industrialized North is considered by many historians to have been a fatal strategic error.

But even if one conceded Lee’s military prowess, he would still be responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans in defense of the South’s authority to own millions of human beings as property because they are black. Lee’s elevation is a key part of a 150-year-old propaganda campaign designed to erase slavery as the cause of the war and whitewash the Confederate cause as a noble one. That ideology is known as the Lost Cause, and as historian David Blight writes, it provided a “foundation on which Southerners built the Jim Crow system.”

There are unwitting victims of this campaign—those who lack the knowledge to separate history from sentiment. Then there are those whose reverence for Lee relies on replacing the actual Lee with a mythical figure who never truly existed.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/the-myth-of-the-kindly-general-lee/529038/

 

[fmw]

Hopefully they will televise the artillery barrage that brings down Mt. Rushmore.

 

[Exquisitor]

meandering rant I have no idea what your point is. Do you? If so please let us know.

I thought I made several points.

and Jesus Christ himself accepted slavery!! So lets get rid of them all and start over like Hitler Stalin and Mao did. There is no need to conserve the best of history rather we should just start history all over again-right?

The Lord Jesus Christ showed us how to live together within the institutions of our day. This does not mean he is for or against any example of American institution of slavery.

Hopefully they will televise the artillery barrage that brings down Mt. Rushmore.

Hey, wow, what a cool idea, are they going to do this? Just do Washington and Jefferson, because they raped slaves.

 

[James972]

The Lord Jesus Christ showed us how to live together within the institutions of our day. This does not mean he is for or against any example of American institution of slavery.

so you feel Jesus taught slaves how to be happy as slaves or how to live together with their owners??

 

[James972]

Hopefully they will televise the artillery barrage that brings down Mt. Rushmore.

yes we want to destroy Washington and Jefferson because they founded a country that freed billion of slaves.

 

[Exquisitor]

so you feel Jesus taught slaves how to be happy as slaves or how to live together with their owners??

I don't know that he was into making them co-habitate, You know those founding architects, this would be good punishment, make them co-habitate after they get her pregnant. They had wives too, I mean each had a wife, this was a European Domination, not Arabic. Make him go live with the slaves.

You'd have to be a slave to understand what The Lord might have been saying to slaves.

His other teaching to heap coals on your enemies head by doing good to them, if your Master beats you you do good to him. This is not easy, but think of your reward, and when your master asks, what the Hell? you tell him the gospel, to the Master that beat you, think of your reward, (you vomit) and when you get to be Founding Architect, you don't rape slaves like everybody else (and vomit).

This is what you have to do to get out of situation.

 

[James972]

I don't know that he was into making them co-habitate, You know those founding architects, this would be good punishment, make them co-habitate after they get her pregnant. They had wives too, I mean each had a wife, this was a European Domination, not Arabic. Make him go live with the slaves.

You'd have to be a slave to understand what The Lord might have been saying to slaves.

His other teaching to heap coals on your enemies head by doing good to them, if your Master beats you you do good to him. This is not easy, but think of your reward, and when your master asks, what the Hell? you tell him the gospel, to the Master that beat you, think of your reward, (you vomit) and when you get to be Founding Architect, you don't rape slaves like everybody else (and vomit).

This is what you have to do to get out of situation.

gibberish ranting English. If you have any idea what your point is why not tell us???

 

[Exquisitor]

gibberish ranting English. If you have any idea what your point is why not tell us???

Well you were saying that the Lord was trying to make slaves and their owners co-habitate so my point is, you can never know what the Lord is trying to do.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Should we get rid of the Monuments?

Well, the Nazis, for example, got rid of all the monuments that seemed to show support for Nazism and replaced them with monuments that showed contrition and guilt for what they had done, and to this day they are still building more monuments. Should Southerners feel the same guilt? Hell yes, for being slow see the evil in slavery; hell no for wanting freedom from the central govt. Let's not forget that 99% of southern soldiers were not slave owners but rather proud, poor, independent, heroic Scotts Irish types who wanted their freedom and way of life just as much as the Boston patriots did during the American Revolution.

Thus, most Republican Federal govts, and Republicans,conservatives, and libertarians in general would probably want to keep the monuments while central govt loving, welfare dispensing Democrats would probably want to take down the monuments down.

But why? Don't Americans love to go to Europe to learn history through seeing 1000's of monuments regardless of their relationship to today's sense of morality? Should the death camps be hidden from us too?

There is great benefit in people walking by a monument and wondering what history made people care to built it. Conservatives in particular need to know history so they will know what history should be conserved. Liberals don't care to know history and one must suspect their Talibanish approach to monuments is for the same Talibanish purpose. Some liberals are already calling for the destruction of Jefferson and Madison, and their Declaration and Constitution since they were written by mere slave holders even though it was those slave holders who instantly reversed 10,000 of history and set in motion the process by which slaves were freed a few years later.

So, there are arguments on both sides to be sure, but on balance the monuments should be kept especially since they do not support slavery but rather lost lives, bravery, patriotism, loyalty incredible determination, and principles from greater than the self, qualities that we all hope we would have had, had we had the misfortune to have been born in Caesar's Rome, Napoleon's France, Hitler's Germany, or Lincoln's south. Lincoln did not want to destroy the South after he defeated it. Remember how he famously asked the band to play Dixie, a song and symbol of the south that he had not heard in a long time.

We should get rid of our worship or corruption and wealth too.

 

[James972]

Well you were saying that the Lord was trying to make slaves and their owners co-habitate so my point is, you can never know what the Lord is trying to do.

actually we know that the lord is trying to make us behave!

 

[James972]

We should get rid of our worship or corruption and wealth too.

that is not logical english so means nothing

 

[Moon]

Yes.

Those who object to their removal don't have the character to admit why they want them to remain. The history and motives are clear. We're anonymous, just state your true feelings, and we can debate honestly.

So for people who say no, what are their true feelings?

 

[James972]

So for people who say no, what are their true feelings?

probably that the monuments don't show support for slavery but rather homage to freedom bravery etc things the south thought they fought for too. Don't forget 99% of southerners did not own slaves.

More importantly, the problem blacks have is not the monuments but rather being victimized by crippling liberal welfare programs.

 

[Fenton Lum]

that is not logical english so means nothing

Worship of.

 

[Fenton Lum]

probably that the monuments don't show support for slavery but rather homage to freedom bravery etc things the south thought they fought for too. Don't forget 99% of southerners did not own slaves.

More importantly, the problem blacks have is not the monuments but rather being victimized by crippling liberal welfare programs.

Yeah, everything was fine in america for black folk before that danged ole welfare. And Lord knows whites were victimized by the GI Bill.

 

[Parrish]

Yes.

Those who object to their removal don't have the character to admit why they want them to remain. The history and motives are clear. We're anonymous, just state your true feelings, and we can debate honestly.

So for people who say no, what are their true feelings?

Seems pretty clear.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Sorry but at least the statues that was created in the 1920s, 60 to 70 years after the civil war and to promote the southern Jim Crow era should be gone now that the racists and the nazis had embrace them for their own purposes once more.

Hell it is my opinion that Lee would agree with them being removed as after the civil war he did his best in his remaining lifetime to heal the wounds between the south and the north and those statues now they had been once more adopted by the racists is not helpful in that regard.

Those monuments don't promote hate people do. You cannot get rid hate by destroying monuments. The hate is now going on 160 years. Nobody alive today was slave owner or a slave but the hate is passed on to the next generation. I hope both sides are proud of their ability to continue the hate for over 1-1/2 centuries. Destroying the monuments will only continue the hate for another 150 years. Great job. Keep up the good work.

 

[sablesea]

Removing them will solve nothing, plus like it or not they are a part of history.
Actually its not so much the removal of statues but the vandalizing of them that really ticks me off.
... I have no roots in the south and I'm not a Trump supporter.
Im not sure what will solve these issues. They are like a virus...get a little better than hit full force.