Should People Be Forced To Vote Or Pay A Fine?

[Moderate Right]

What are you calling a fantasy?

The very first words of your post were, "Eliminate political parties". Isn't that a fantasy?

 

[Moderate Right]

So you can't point me to the posts, or say the names of the lefties so I can search for myself. Got it.

Discussing things with you is always interesting. You post and run. Every day.

i don't know why I bothered anyway. Your claims almost always are lies.

I'm not wasting my time because you are too lazy to read the whole thread. If you want to read through 170 posts then have at it. I appreciate the fact that you may not want to take the time to do it so don't blame me for not wanting waste my time to do it either. I've got better things to do with my time than to constantly refind things for you that have already been posted.

 

[tres borrachos]

I'm not wasting my time because you are too lazy to read the whole thread. If you want to read through 170 posts then have at it. I appreciate the fact that you may not want to take the time to do it so don't blame me for not wanting waste my time to do it either. I've got better things to do with my time than to constantly refind things for you that have already been posted.

If I said "some lefty posters think x", and someone asked me "who?", I could answer it. I wouldn't post like you just did.

If I said "some Trump devotees wouldn't care if a politician is a pedophile, as long as he is a Republican", and someone asked me who thinks that, I could point to your post saying that. I wouldn't require the person to read through 170 pages of your posts to find it. That's because I debate honestly. You don't.

 

[Vidi]

You seemed to think if we forced everyone to vote we would find something out. All we would find out is that voters have scrambled eggs tor brains. We wouldn't find anything out. But I do find it amusing the left thinks low information voters elected Trump president and now they want more low information voters voting, actual proof that it is the lefty voters who are the idiots.

We already know voters have scrambled eggs for their brains. This current President said he could shoot someone in Times Square and not lost a single supporter and his supporters applauded. He said he loved the poorly educated and his supporters applauded.

He called his supporters ignorant sheep, straight to their faces, and they applauded him.

I understand fully why people voted for Trump. And it wasn’t because they’re a bunch of racists ( some are, but not the majority) and it wasn’t because they’re low information voters ( some are, but not all )

They voted for Trump because while he is a vile horrible human being with very very few real workable solutions ( he actually has a couple I agree with ) Trump was RIGHT about MANY of our problems that BOTH sides have failed to fix for decades.

So yes, I hate him. And I’m more left than you. But every time ANYONE points at anyone calling them lefty or righty, all that does is show that they are the problem.

You and I will probably agree on a great many things. And disagree on just as much. But if you’re going to label me and dismiss me based on your preconceived notions, then you’re part of the problem.

 

[Superfly]

We should want less people to vote. People will vote Democrat because they are people of color, poor, uneducated, maleducated etc. It can't be right to have people who either don't know why they are voting or are just doing it to get free stuff. We should raise the voting age to 28 since individuals below this age are not mentally fully developed. We should strive to have intelligent voters and not encourage the rest.

Good one!!

Oh wait - you were serious?

 

[Superfly]

I am in agreement with many on this thread who think many of those who do vote should not be voting let alone forcing everyone to vote. I love watching some of these shows like Watter's World. It really shows how ill informed many in this country really are.

I on the other hand feel fewer people should be allowed to vote. The age should be pushed back to 21. The whole concept of allowing 18 year olds to vote because they can be drafted is stupid. What 2% or 3% are drafted, so all should benefit? In addition, the draft is no longer used. If they want to cover that group they should say anyone in the military can vote regardless of age. For the others it is 21. Anyone living in their parent's home has not experienced enough life to vote. You should also have to have skin in the game to vote. If you don't pay taxes you should not be able to decide where that money is spent.

Nope. Disagree. My husband is 100% service-connected disabled. Are you saying that because he was injured in service to his country, he should not have a say in how taxes are distributed, even though he doesn't pay taxes?

 

[ralphcdp]

I am in agreement with many on this thread who think many of those who do vote should not be voting let alone forcing everyone to vote. I love watching some of these shows like Watter's World. It really shows how ill informed many in this country really are.

I on the other hand feel fewer people should be allowed to vote. The age should be pushed back to 21. The whole concept of allowing 18 year olds to vote because they can be drafted is stupid. What 2% or 3% are drafted, so all should benefit? In addition, the draft is no longer used. If they want to cover that group they should say anyone in the military can vote regardless of age. For the others it is 21. Anyone living in their parent's home has not experienced enough life to vote. You should also have to have skin in the game to vote. If you don't pay taxes you should not be able to decide where that money is spent.

Clearly, there are tens of millions that haven't what's necessary upstairs to vote, EVER. Of all ages.

 

[Moderate Right]

If I said "some lefty posters think x", and someone asked me "who?", I could answer it. I wouldn't post like you just did.

If I said "some Trump devotees wouldn't care if a politician is a pedophile, as long as he is a Republican", and someone asked me who thinks that, I could point to your post saying that. I wouldn't require the person to read through 170 pages of your posts to find it. That's because I debate honestly. You don't.

There are thousands of member here on DP, hundreds of whom post on a regular basis. I'm not going to keep track of all of them in my head just because you are too lazy to read posts. Your problem is you see what you want to see, hear what you want to hear, and read what you want to read. If you actually opened your eyes you could see all kinds of things.

 

[Moderate Right]

We already know voters have scrambled eggs for their brains. This current President said he could shoot someone in Times Square and not lost a single supporter and his supporters applauded. He said he loved the poorly educated and his supporters applauded.

He called his supporters ignorant sheep, straight to their faces, and they applauded him.

I understand fully why people voted for Trump. And it wasn’t because they’re a bunch of racists ( some are, but not the majority) and it wasn’t because they’re low information voters ( some are, but not all )

They voted for Trump because while he is a vile horrible human being with very very few real workable solutions ( he actually has a couple I agree with ) Trump was RIGHT about MANY of our problems that BOTH sides have failed to fix for decades.

So yes, I hate him. And I’m more left than you. But every time ANYONE points at anyone calling them lefty or righty, all that does is show that they are the problem.

You and I will probably agree on a great many things. And disagree on just as much. But if you’re going to label me and dismiss me based on your preconceived notions, then you’re part of the problem.

There was enough in there that I liked your post. I had to think on it for a while though. I can't remember our exact conversations so I'm sorry if I called you a lefty if you aren't. Many on the left here think there is no way in hell that I'm a moderate but the fact is I am and have voted for both Democrats and Republicans in every election I can think of. I voted for Obama in 2012. I completely disagree with thinking it's a good idea to force people to vote and I'm overwhelmingly happy that even "the left" agree with me on this. There are many on the left here on DP that are just batsh!t crazy, infected with TDS and I often don't have any patience with idiots like that and sadistically get pleasure at poking their eyes out when they post pure nonsense. I spent the good part of 8 years defending Obama from far right nonsense, some of it coming from Trump, but, the left have completely left the planet since Trump was elected. By the way, I lived in in a few different cities in Minnesota over several years, including spots in the Twin Cities. It's still the most favorite place I have ever lived.

 

[distraff]

Another thread inspired me to post this poll. I think some lefties here on DP feel that Democrats best chance of winning elections is by forcing people to vote or face a fine as they do in some other countries like Australia. I guess their thinking is that the more people who vote the more will vote Democrat. So, should we up our voter turnout to 90% or more by forcing people to vote or face a fine for not voting?

I actually think that people who are uninformed should voluntarily abstain from voting.

 

[Vidi]

There was enough in there that I liked your post. I had to think on it for a while though. I can't remember our exact conversations so I'm sorry if I called you a lefty if you aren't. Many on the left here think there is no way in hell that I'm a moderate but the fact is I am and have voted for both Democrats and Republicans in every election I can think of. I voted for Obama in 2012. I completely disagree with thinking it's a good idea to force people to vote and I'm overwhelmingly happy that even "the left" agree with me on this. There are many on the left here on DP that are just batsh!t crazy, infected with TDS and I often don't have any patience with idiots like that and sadistically get pleasure at poking their eyes out when they post pure nonsense. I spent the good part of 8 years defending Obama from far right nonsense, some of it coming from Trump, but, the left have completely left the planet since Trump was elected. By the way, I lived in in a few different cities in Minnesota over several years, including spots in the Twin Cities. It's still the most favorite place I have ever lived.

Oh I am definitely a lefty. But I see WHY people on the right vote the way they do more often then not. Some of it simply baffles me.

But I search for facts and live with the truth, which means I criticize if it’s left or right lol

 

[BahamaBob]

I actually think that people who are uninformed should voluntarily abstain from voting.

I think those who lack cognitive skills are a bigger problem. A few years ago we had a politician tell us he was going to make it so people up to the age of 26 could remain on their parent's health insurance, he was going to remove all the caps on coverage, he was going to remove all existing condition exemptions from coverage and it was going to save us $2,500 a year. Gullible people believed him.

Now we have clowns promising free college, a green world, medicaid for all and telling the gullible that this will paid for by taxing a couple of thousand rich people. It is proof that ignorance has no limits.

 

[Vidi]

I actually think that people who are uninformed should voluntarily abstain from voting.

The problem is how many people think they’re informed when they’re actually not or horribly misinformed.

 

[Vidi]

I think those who lack cognitive skills are a bigger problem. A few years ago we had a politician tell us he was going to make it so people up to the age of 26 could remain on their parent's health insurance, he was going to remove all the caps on coverage, he was going to remove all existing condition exemptions from coverage and it was going to save us $2,500 a year. Gullible people believed him.

Now we have clowns promising free college, a green world, medicaid for all and telling the gullible that this will paid for by taxing a couple of thousand rich people. It is proof that ignorance has no limits.

Free college.

How exactly do you expect our future workforce to compete with a global workforce when other countries offer free college to all their citizens?

How do you expect an American company to compete in foreign markets when they’re saddled with the expense of health care and other companies are in countries where that’s a government issue?

The more other countries governments take on, the more it’s going to hurt the future of our industry as it tries to compete

 

[BahamaBob]

Free college.

How exactly do you expect our future workforce to compete with a global workforce when other countries offer free college to all their citizens?

How do you expect an American company to compete in foreign markets when they’re saddled with the expense of health care and other companies are in countries where that’s a government issue?

The more other countries governments take on, the more it’s going to hurt the future of our industry as it tries to compete

Most of the countries that offer free education are smaller than big cities in the US. Other countries are also taxed to the point that the average citizen can not afford to own a home. For example only 41% of the people in Germany own their home. Beyond that, how is offering someone a free education in a field that has few job openings and lousy pay going to help the US in the global market? I watched a ditty the other day where the commentator went to colleges and asked students who thought free tuition would be a good thing. They all said yes. Then he asked how they felt about paying high taxes to pay for others to have a free education for the rest of their lives. Every one of them changed their mind on how great free tuition would be. In addition, if you get a degree in a needed field you can find employers who will reimburse your education costs now. Two of my son's are taking advantage of this. After you get a job many employers will also pick up the cost of your continuing education. Good corporations use this as an inducement to get and keep employees.

The education is not what draws workers, it is jobs. Millions of people come to this country every year looking for work. We are the brain drain of the world. Many of the most educated foreigners want to come her and work. Part of the reason is that Taxes here are relatively low compared to those countries that offer free education. In these cases, the free education is having exactly the opposite the desired effect. The high taxes are causing the educated young to seek a better environment. You see people want to keep the money they earn, not give it away in taxes.

Corporate Health Care benefits are for the most part negotiated and given in lieu of more pay. They do not make the corporation less competitive, they make them more competitive. Good benefits draw good employees. Always has always will.

 

[Individual]

The very first words of your post were, "Eliminate political parties". Isn't that a fantasy?

The complete first sentence was, "Eliminate political parties, especially at the national level."

But the truth is often you can't even get on the ballot without a lot of money. You need money to reach people. A lot of the money comes from the parties themselves. About the only way the average Joe or Jane can even get on the ballot is if they are approached by the party to do so and the party writes them a big fat check and backs them. But, even then, in most cases the party picks out someone who is not an average Joe or Jane to be their candidate and they pick someone who will not disappoint the party as to what is expected of them in return for the backing. Since the candidate would have an almost impossible chance of winning without the backing of their party, they pledge allegiance to the party and don't waiver very far from that pledged allegiance. There really isn't a way to "field a better candidate". Our only choices are between a bought and paid for Democrat or a bought and paid for Republican and many on the left are delusional if they think that Bernie or AOC are somehow different.

I recall Tip O'Neill (a Democrat) once saying, "All politics is local.", and I agree it should be.

In each election, we are provided a selection of candidates from various political parties. All eligible voters then must make a choice of showing their support for one of the candidates by casting a vote, or optionally none of the candidates by abstaining. The total number who do not cast a vote is a very significant figure which should always be made public along with the total number of votes acquired by each candidate.

 

[vesper]

Voting is a privilege, not an obligation.

Yes it is very much a privilege to those who hold dear such a privilege. But so many don't bother to show up at the polls to participate. Why is that?

For one the lack of teaching our youth the basics of Civics 101 has a lot to do with it. That has produced a couple of generations that can't even pass the test for immigrants seeking naturalization.

For decades kids have been denied an education on how our government even works and have no knowledge of the founders' intent when it was first implemented.

So here we are at a time Democrats are touting lowering the age of voting to 16. I don't know about you but I raised a couple of kids and at 16 they were more interested in themselves not country or world affairs. At that point in their lives they were all about them.

Compound that with the fact that most 16 year olds have not had a decent teaching on Civics 101 should scare the heck out of anyone.

 

[soylentgreen]

Another thread inspired me to post this poll. I think some lefties here on DP feel that Democrats best chance of winning elections is by forcing people to vote or face a fine as they do in some other countries like Australia. I guess their thinking is that the more people who vote the more will vote Democrat. So, should we up our voter turnout to 90% or more by forcing people to vote or face a fine for not voting?

Yet in countries like australia the government consists of members of Australia's Liberal-Nationals Coalition. Which are center right political parties.
New zealand which also has compulsory voting just went through about 11 years of the right wing national government.

Care to provide any evidence that you conspiracy theory is not as foolish as any other conspiracy. That compulsory voting favours the left. Or is just screaming scare tactics enough to convince your average american.

 

[Moderate Right]

Yet in countries like australia the government consists of members of Australia's Liberal-Nationals Coalition. Which are center right political parties.
New zealand which also has compulsory voting just went through about 11 years of the right wing national government.

Care to provide any evidence that you conspiracy theory is not as foolish as any other conspiracy. That compulsory voting favours the left. Or is just screaming scare tactics enough to convince your average american.

Evidence is everywhere. You're just too blind to see it. Maybe you should reread the thread.

 

[Moderate Right]

The complete first sentence was, "Eliminate political parties, especially at the national level."



I recall Tip O'Neill (a Democrat) once saying, "All politics is local.", and I agree it should be.

In each election, we are provided a selection of candidates from various political parties. All eligible voters then must make a choice of showing their support for one of the candidates by casting a vote, or optionally none of the candidates by abstaining. The total number who do not cast a vote is a very significant figure which should always be made public along with the total number of votes acquired by each candidate.

"Eliminate political parties, especially at the national level" is a fantasy. It's time you woke up to reality.

 

[soylentgreen]

Evidence is everywhere. You're just too blind to see it. Maybe you should reread the thread.

The words of some one who cannot back what they say.

Where as i can point to those countries with compulsory voting and we do see a mixed representation of both right and left wing.

 

[Moderate Right]

The words of some one who cannot back what they say.

Where as i can point to those countries with compulsory voting and we do see a mixed representation of both right and left wing.

Look, I realize you are from New Zealand. Maybe they don't have media out there. But, the evidence is everywhere, including about one hundred thousand posts right here on DP and in this very own thread. It seems to be your choice to not see what is right in front of your face.

 

[soylentgreen]

Look, I realize you are from New Zealand. Maybe they don't have media out there. But, the evidence is everywhere, including about one hundred thousand posts right here on DP and in this very own thread. It seems to be your choice to not see what is right in front of your face.

No, the evidence so far by you is nothing more than a vague waving of the hand that it is out there, somewhere.

People on this site sharing their opinions is not evidence. The fact that countries with compulsory voting have a history of swinging from left to right is.

 

[Moderate Right]

No, the evidence so far by you is nothing more than a vague waving of the hand that it is out there, somewhere.

People on this site sharing their opinions is not evidence. The fact that countries with compulsory voting have a history of swinging from left to right is.

It's not only right here on this site, it is everywhere. Even most lefties acknowledge this.

 

[Individual]

"Eliminate political parties, especially at the national level" is a fantasy. It's time you woke up to reality.

Then don't complain about political parties.