Should NATO disband?

[Rostocker]

You can label President Trump a "symptom" if youu wish, but the bottom line is still that you are basing a decades long relationship on one man who is temporarily president.

It was already going downhill with Bush and Obama. Trump just broke the final straw.

 

[Dayton3]

It was already going downhill with Bush and Obama. Trump just broke the final straw.

All because the U.S. wants to conduct military operations that Europeans are not interested in?

That's your problem.

 

[bomberfox]

No, we threaten to heal cancer and birth defects.

Evry technology can be weaponized. We dont do that. We use it for good.

Btw it would even work against single persons if someone uses it for bad.

Imagine one gets a DNA sample of a target person. The Virus would get programmed on that DNA sample. Another person gets it on his or her hand and transmitts it via handshake. It would not harm anyone but the target person would get destroyed.

Horrible.

And btw Germany did nothing that other western nations have not done.

Ah the “but little timmy did it too” line of thought. I thought people were teaching about how that is illogical in pre-school. Target person would get terminated? Do tell who that might be?

 

[bomberfox]

Well Germany is seen as the worlds most admired power at the moment.

I dont see where we should change our attitude.

Well in one aspect we should change, thats true. We should become mroe ruthless against attempts from USA to be imperialist on us.

I understand EMrkels approach to simply ignroe USA and proceed as planned. That doesnt mean i like that approach. I would prefer more counterstrikes.

Merkel is not human, she has zero emotions and acts like a blackhole. Germany insulted, attacked. And she doesnt respond. She just proceeds as planned. That drives people mad.

Best example is Nordstream 2. She doesnt respond to any US attacks and simply moves forward with construction. Comments in media here are full that she must strike back but she simply ignores.

I prefer the old style from Gerhard Schröder but have to admit her passive aggressive way is very sucesfull.

Eh such responses such as ignoring Trump can be a sign of maturity.

 

[Rostocker]

All because the U.S. wants to conduct military operations that Europeans are not interested in?

That's your problem.

It becomes your problem when you conduct illegal wars and we have the Terror attacks and the migrant crisis because you brought chaos there.


Beside that, its a cultural Problem. Friends must share some common culture or morals and more and more we cant identify with USA anymore.

 

[Dayton3]

It becomes your problem when you conduct illegal wars

The only thing that matters regarding whether a war is "illegal" or not for the United States. is whether the U.S. Congress approves of it. Congress approved of the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Thus it is legal as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Rostocker]

The only thing that matters regarding whether a war is "illegal" or not for the United States. is whether the U.S. Congress approves of it. Congress approved of the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Thus it is legal as far as I'm concerned.

Thats wrong. According to international law you need Agreement of the UN Security council.

That Said, we soon might have war in the NATO. Rogue member Turkey wants invade NATO member greece. Just as we speak turkish war ships enter greek Waters. Now it gets interesting.

 

[Dayton3]

Thats wrong. According to international law you need Agreement of the UN Security council.

That Said, we soon might have war in the NATO. Rogue member Turkey wants invade NATO member greece. Just as we speak turkish war ships enter greek Waters. Now it gets interesting.

There have been almost wars between NATO members for decades. The Turkey and Greek thing has been a major problem for years. And I don't suppose you've ever heard of the Cod Wars?

Overall though one of NATOs major accomplishments has been in preventing real wars among its members.

 

[Dayton3]

Thats wrong. According to international law you need Agreement of the UN Security council.
.

International Law is not binding upon the United States. According to the U.S. Constitution, international treaties are only binding upon the U.S. if Congress passes supporting legislation for enforcing their provisions domestically.

 

[Rostocker]

International Law is not binding upon the United States. According to the U.S. Constitution, international treaties are only binding upon the U.S. if Congress passes supporting legislation for enforcing their provisions domestically.

Good to know. Makes it easier for us to Take compensations

 

[Rostocker]

There have been almost wars between NATO members for decades. The Turkey and Greek thing has been a major problem for years. And I don't suppose you've ever heard of the Cod Wars?

Overall though one of NATOs major accomplishments has been in preventing real wars among its members.

Turkey should have been kicked out a Long Time ago

 

[Dayton3]

Turkey should have been kicked out a Long Time ago

Why??

And NATO has never kicked out a member. France chose to leave (in appearances though not in actuality) but that is the only nation that has "left".

 

[Dayton3]

Good to know. Makes it easier for us to Take compensations

What do you mean?

 

[Rostocker]

Why??

And NATO has never kicked out a member. France chose to leave (in appearances though not in actuality) but that is the only nation that has "left".

Turkey is a genocidal, facist, islamist hellhole with a president who is ideological close to ISIS

 

[Dayton3]

Turkey is a genocidal, facist, islamist hellhole with a president who is ideological close to ISIS

Erdogan won't be there forever. And it is my understanding that parts of Turkey are very nice and largely "Europeanized" like Istanbul.

 

[Rostocker]

Erdogan won't be there forever. And it is my understanding that parts of Turkey are very nice and largely "Europeanized" like Istanbul.

Same counts for Iran. Shiraz is amazing. Doesnt mean we want Iran in NATO

 

[TypicalRussian]

Europe seems strong enough to handle the Russian and Middle East situation.


We could cut our defense spending down from 3.4% to 2% and use that money for social programs.

no it shouldnt disband

 

[TypicalRussian]

Turkey is a genocidal, facist, islamist hellhole with a president who is ideological close to ISIS

yeah.

 

[TypicalRussian]

Erdogan won't be there forever. And it is my understanding that parts of Turkey are very nice and largely "Europeanized" like Istanbul.

ankara isnt but instanbul has always been part of Europe

 

[joluoto]

NATO is still the best deterrent against Russian adventurism in Eastern Europe. Do I think NATO is a good organization? Oh hell no. And it has certainly been used for bad. On paper Europe can protect itself. In reality the European nations would just start arguing about who's in charge. Which is why American participation matters. It brings leadership. Though I really wish something like NATO wouldn't be needed. It tend to drag people into American adventurism in the Middle East.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Europe seems strong enough to handle the Russian and Middle East situation.


We could cut our defense spending down from 3.4% to 2% and use that money for social programs.

Did you ever see the original "Red Dawn"?

 

[Glitch]

NATO is still the best deterrent against Russian adventurism in Eastern Europe. Do I think NATO is a good organization? Oh hell no. And it has certainly been used for bad. On paper Europe can protect itself. In reality the European nations would just start arguing about who's in charge. Which is why American participation matters. It brings leadership. Though I really wish something like NATO wouldn't be needed. It tend to drag people into American adventurism in the Middle East.

You know that the US is more than just a participant, right?

You cannot be a NATO member without US approval, and under Articles 10, 11, 13, and 14 of the North Atlantic Treaty, the US is the sole authority.

There is no NATO without the US.

 

[Evilroddy]

Europe seems strong enough to handle the Russian and Middle East situation.


We could cut our defense spending down from 3.4% to 2% and use that money for social programs.

Swing_voter:

NATO is more about controlling what the Europeans do in their foreign policy than defending Europe now that the old Soviet Union is gone. It is also a useful tool for circumventing the United Nations when America in conjunction with some of her allies want to use military force as part of their foreign policy.

Should NATO be disbanded? No, I don't think so. Should it be reformed and have its mandate limited to a strictly defensive alliance? Yes.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Evilroddy]

I don’t see how criticizing “allies” who’s citizens hate us is unchristian. You would have to show the theological principle at work.

We shouldn’t go to wars in foreign countries across an ocean. There’s enough domestic enemies to deal with now

EMNoS:

So you're advocating using US Military forces on American Soil against American citizens then? This makes me wonder just who are the most dangerous domestic enemies of your republic.

Be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Glitch]

Swing_voter:

NATO is more about controlling what the Europeans do in their foreign policy than defending Europe now that the old Soviet Union is gone. It is also a useful tool for circumventing the United Nations when America in conjunction with some of her allies want to use military force as part of their foreign policy.

Should NATO be disbanded? No, I don't think so. Should it be reformed and have its mandate limited to a strictly defensive alliance? Yes.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

I agree with you that NATO is merely a reflection of the US' hegemony.

NATO definitely does need to be disbanded, and another organization created of entirely European nations - no US. As long as NATO exists, the US will control the European military and determine its defense. After 75 years in Europe the US has been there long enough. It is well past time for Europeans to be responsible for their own military and defense of their nations and stop depending on the US.