Should hereditarians and race realists be allowed to express their opinions? (1 Viewer)

[Good4Nothin]

Hi, Smart Cat:



I just wanted to gently and respectfully point out that the O-word is now considered offensive (except when referring to rugs). President Obama ordered all government bodies to use the word "Asian." I think that was a good idea. I assume that the Trump administration is following this policy, too.

Have a great weekend!

WHY is "oriental" now considered offensive??? It just means EASTERN for god's sake.

 

[TheParser]

I voted for Obama in 2008 and in 2012. I did not vote for that kind of nonsense.

I, of course, respect your opinion.

But I think that it is a good idea to stop referring to Asian people by the O-word.

As you know, during the succeeding decades, words for ethnicities have changed and we must change with the times.

 

[SmartCat]

I, of course, respect your opinion.

But I think that it is a good idea to stop referring to Asian people by the O-word.

As you know, during the succeeding decades, words for ethnicities have changed and we must change with the times.

It should be obvious to those who have read many of my comments that I have not changed with the times. Nor do I see any reason to. During the course of my life I have witnessed a number of changes I have not liked.

 

[Master Debator]

The United States has a high crime rate because we have high populations of blacks and Hispanics.

Who's cultures and societies white Europeans plundered, pillaged, raped and enslaved for over two centuries. But its telling the past two decades of black crime is more significant a indicator of genetic violence and criminality to you than the 200 years previous.

 

[ataraxia]

No, certainly not. I do not want blacks to be discriminated against because they are black, like they were in the past. Right now they are discriminated in favor of because of affirmative action policies. I want an end to affirmative action.

OK, reasonable enough. If that’s all you are saying. It’s winding down already.

 

[ataraxia]

That is a widespread misconception that persists because people want to believe it. Since it was introduced a century ago IQ testing has demonstrated its ability to accurately predict academic and economic performance, as well as other desirable outcomes in life.

Whether it’s measuring anything genetic or hereditary is very questionable. The IQ of the average black person today is higher than the average white person in 1945. It’s called the Flynn affect.

 

[SmartCat]

Who's cultures and societies white Europeans plundered, pillaged, raped and enslaved for over two centuries. But its telling the past two decades of black crime is more significant a indicator of genetic violence and criminality to you than the 200 years previous.

During most of history criminals in civilized countries were killed at the scene of the crime, they died in custody, or they were executed. The few children some of them may have had were unlikely to live to adult hood. By those methods crime alleles were removed from the white and Oriental genomes. That is why we have lower crime rates than races that have been more recently introduced to civilization.

 

[TheParser]

WHY is "oriental" now considered offensive???

1. Maybe a member schooled in semantics can answer your question.

2. The word "Oriental" has taken on certain sinister nuances over the years.

3. I remember that a few years ago, two sportscasters were criticized for referring to an Asian athlete as an "Oriental." They claimed that they did not realize it was now considered offensive.

 

[SmartCat]

Who's cultures and societies white Europeans plundered, pillaged, raped and enslaved for over two centuries. But its telling the past two decades of black crime is more significant a indicator of genetic violence and criminality to you than the 200 years previous.

During most of history criminals in civilized countries were killed at the scene of the crime, they died in custody, or they were executed. The few children some of them may have had were unlikely to live to adult hood. By those methods crime alleles were removed from the white and Oriental genomes. That is why we have lower crime rates than races that have been more recently introduced to civilization.

 

[TheParser]

WHY is "oriental" now considered offensive???

1. Maybe a member schooled in semantics can answer your question.

2. The word "Oriental" has taken on certain sinister nuances over the years.

3. I remember that a few years ago, two sportscasters were criticized for referring to an Asian athlete as an "Oriental." They claimed that they did not realize it was now considered offensive.

 

[ataraxia]

During most of history criminals in civilized countries were killed at the scene of the crime, they died in custody, or they were executed. The few children some of them may have had were unlikely to live to adult hood. By those methods crime alleles were removed from the white and Oriental genomes. That is why we have lower crime rates than races that have been more recently introduced to civilization.

Civilization got introduced to western Europe only about 2000 years ago with the Romans. He didn’t get up to the Scandinavian countries up until only 1000 years ago. It existed in the Middle East and North Africa long before that.

 

[Master Debator]

During most of history criminals in civilized countries were killed at the scene of the crime, they died in custody, or they were executed. The few children some of them may have had were unlikely to live to adult hood. By those methods crime alleles were removed from the white and Oriental genomes. That is why we have lower crime rates than races that have been more recently introduced to civilization.

Sorry you don't get to crib the work of geneticists to adopt for your nonsense race theories. None of what you claimed above have you supported with any facts or research.

 

[SmartCat]

1. Maybe a member schooled in semantics can answer your question.

2. The word "Oriental" has taken on certain sinister nuances over the years.

3. I remember that a few years ago, two sportscasters were criticized for referring to an Asian athlete as an "Oriental." They claimed that they did not realize it was now considered offensive.

I am a white Gentile of European ancestry. I prefer Orientals to whites. My Oriental friends know that and appreciate it. I think it is silly that "Oriental" is considered offensive. I refuse to concede to silliness. An Asian can be an Arab, an Iranian, or an Afghanistan. These are Caucasians. Even East Indians are usually considered to be Caucasian. What I mean by "Oriental" are Chinese, and nations that have learned civilization from China. These are Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese, Mongolians, and Tibetans.

I do not use the n word ending with r, although many Negroes use it. I do use the word "Negro" a lot, and I am going to continue to use it. I am aware that the politically correct term has become "African American." I have never heard a Negro use that term in conversation.

 

[D_NATURED]

How to Disagree, by Paul Graham

If we're all going to be disagreeing more, we should be careful to do it well. What does it mean to disagree well? Most readers can tell the difference between mere name-calling and a carefully reasoned refutation, but I think it would help to put names on the intermediate stages. So here's an attempt at a disagreement hierarchy:

DH0. Name-calling.

This is the lowest form of disagreement, and probably also the most common. We've all seen comments like this:
u r a fag!!!!!!!!!!
But it's important to realize that more articulate name-calling has just as little weight. A comment like
The author is a self-important dilettante.
is really nothing more than a pretentious version of "u r a fag."
How to Disagree

---------

For too long the fear of being called a racist has suppressed the dialogue on race Bill Clinton called for and which we need to have. It needs to be a candid, honest debate. There should never be any sanctions against stating facts.

What your self-justified bigotry leaves out is that people of different colors/cultures/ethnicities are breeding at an increasing rate, soon to render moot your racial high horse. Rather than put black people in special education classes for no reason but their skin color, let's just let nature take its course and future humans can enjoy the benefit of TRUE genetic diversity.

I'm sure that the brown people of the future will look back on your opinions with the same sense of disgust that we now apply to 18th century, American slave traders. They'll wonder why the good people didn't murder them. The answer, of course, is that many people are too dumb to recognize evil in their own selves, much less the greater society.

Using science to divide humanity by color is a gross misuse of your own, arguable, intelligence. Even the smartest human is little more than a monkey in pants.

 

[TheParser]

It should be obvious to those who have read many of my comments that I have not changed with the times.

Well, there IS one change that I absolutely refuse to go along with.

I WILL say/write "Everyone should bring his or her book tomorrow," but I have enough guts to REFUSE to say/write "Everyone should bring their book tomorrow" or even worse "Everyone should bring her book tomorrow [when the class contains both male and female students]."

Needless to say, I would not dare say "Everyone must bring his book tomorrow."

 

[TheParser]

I do use the word "Negro" a lot, and I am going to continue to use it.

Oh my!

I do not know your age or profession, but if you were to use that word in most venues, the consequences would be quite unpleasant.

 

[veritas1]

Not to mention religious wars (Christians fighting Christians!), two World Wars and the murder of 6 million Jews.

Good people.

Intelligence has nothing to do with morality. Some of the most immoral people are also the most intelligent. That has nothing to do with the original topic.

 

[ataraxia]

White people have been the Johnny-come-lately to the scene of human civilization.

 

[veritas1]

What your self-justified bigotry leaves out is that people of different colors/cultures/ethnicities are breeding at an increasing rate, soon to render moot your racial high horse. Rather than put black people in special education classes for no reason but their skin color, let's just let nature take its course and future humans can enjoy the benefit of TRUE genetic diversity.

I'm sure that the brown people of the future will look back on your opinions with the same sense of disgust that we now apply to 18th century, American slave traders. They'll wonder why the good people didn't murder them. The answer, of course, is that many people are too dumb to recognize evil in their own selves, much less the greater society.

Using science to divide humanity by color is a gross misuse of your own, arguable, intelligence. Even the smartest human is little more than a monkey in pants.

No, we shouldn't put black people in special education classes because of their skin color and neither should we put them in universities because of it. The point the OP is making is simply a factual one and assigning a moral component to it is only designed to stifle unpleasant realities by inferring some character flaw to the person pointing it out. I also find it a bit ironic that the same people who regularly strive to divide and categorize people by race, ethnicity and gender would complain about "using science to divide humanity by color". Dividing humanity by color is one of their prime occupations.

 

[ataraxia]

No, we shouldn't put black people in special education classes because of their skin color and neither should we put them in universities because of it. The point the OP is making is simply a factual one and assigning a moral component to it is only designed to stifle unpleasant realities by inferring some character flaw to the person pointing it out. I also find it a bit ironic that the same people who regularly strive to divide and categorize people by race, ethnicity and gender would complain about "using science to divide humanity by color". Dividing humanity by color is one of their prime occupations.

If you have a group of people who have been systematically exploited and hurt for centuries based on their skin color, then surely we can spend a generation or two helping them get back on their feet for the same reason. I would say the same if this same systematic discrimination had been committed against short people or bald people.

 

[ataraxia]

Intelligence has nothing to do with morality. Some of the most immoral people are also the most intelligent. That has nothing to do with the original topic.

Not according to the poster of the OP. He feels they are linked. If yo disagree, you should talk to him.

 

[veritas1]

If you have a group of people who have been systematically exploited and hurt for centuries based on their skin color, then surely we can spend a generation or two helping them get back on their feet for the same reason. I would say the same if this same systematic discrimination had been committed against short people or bald people.

Being exploited is a matter of circumstance but also of ability. The societies which have advanced knowledge the furthest, technically and otherwise, have lorded it over the others. That may not be a pleasant fact but it is one nonetheless. As for helping people, we should look closely at what we are doing to see if we are really helping at all. Putting unqualified people in positions and circumstances which set them up for failure is not my idea of generosity or help.

 

[veritas1]

Not according to the poster of the OP. He feels they are linked. If yo disagree, you should talk to him.

Well, I do disagree on that point. Serial killers generally have very high IQ's. That does nothing to impart morality to them.

 

[ataraxia]

I refuse to concede to silliness. An Asian can be an Arab, an Iranian, or an Afghanistan. These are Caucasians. Even East Indians are usually considered to be Caucasian..

Many people would disagree. To them, "Caucasian" means blond, blue eyed Northern European. For some folks, that would even rule out folks like Italians, Greeks, and Spaniards. It would even also rule out blond, blue-eyed folks from Eastern Europe like Poles, Czechs, Hungarians, etc...

Conversely, in Russia, the term "Caucasian" refers to people from the "-istan" provinces of the former Soviet Union- places like Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia, etc... The "Caucasian steppes".

People can do all this becaues these are all just social constructs and terms. There is no formal scientific classification that corresponds to all this. It's like saying if someone is from the North or South of the US. These are just geopolitical lines drawn for administrative/political purposes, not anything inherent in the geography of the place.

Being a social construct, these terms just mean what the user wants them to mean.

 

[ataraxia]

Well, I do disagree on that point. Serial killers generally have very high IQ's. That does nothing to impart morality to them.

Agreed. And by the same token, some of the sweetest people I have ever met can hardly be called geniuses by any stretch. Maybe you can explain this to the OP poster.