Should hereditarians and race realists be allowed to express their opinions?

[ttwtt78640]

Appalachia is safe to walk through after dark, unlike black ghettos.

Not according to Deliverance.

 

[SmartCat]

First, I congratulate you on bringing the race discussion beyond the "n word" and "blackface". These items are akin to discussing the price of tea in China on the Titanic as it's sinking. Whites rioted in the Boston busing crisis of 1974 without the benefit of having a confederate statue nearby to cheer them on. A few months ago the media couldn't stop talking about the stupid statues.

I agree with the spirit of your post with a major caveat and a few additions. I think "breed" would be better used in place of "sub species" to describe the difference between races.

I will have to admit that I believe there is partially a biological reason why I am more threatened by a black man than a Japanese woman. Regardless of whether one believes this is biological or cultural (people like to blame 'poverty' for violence), the social effect is the same: self-segregation and lower standards for the more violent racial segment.

The most murderous countries are in central and South America (we would call these people Hispanic), not Africa. However, blacks in the US are far more murderous than Hispanics, even though their poverty rate is roughly the same. This suggests culture plays a large role.

I disagree with the concept that these differences, caused by a combination of biology and culture, are deserving of policy implications. To do so would be to lower expectations for one race, and by extension, raise the esteem for another race. The media has done great damage already by holding different races to different standards: whites are regarded as superior (for whatever reason) by virtually everyone.

I went on a white supremacist board a few years ago to see how they think. One post struck me: Someone posted that blaming blacks for being 8 times more murderous than whites would be like blaming a pitbull for attacking someone. This is "lower standards" at work. Liberals get there in a different way, but it's lower standards just the same.

I think functionally, no matter the mechanic by which it happens, if we 'expect' more violence, poverty or unemployment from one race over another, we are part and parcel of the core issue.

I don't think many of us here would want our own race to be treated with less regard than other races, therefore I can't recommend that we do policy changes based on race, it will only exacerbate the problem. To sum up, I expect a black man to not attack me in the same way I expect a Japanese woman not to attack me - I hold them to the same standard.

I am confident that you also feel less threatened by the presence of a young Japanese man than you are by the presence of a young black man.

In the following website there is a chart of national murder rates compiled by the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crime (UNODC).

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

If you look at that chart you will see that Latin American countries usually have higher murder rates than sub Saharan countries. Like you I have wondered about that. UNODC acknowledges that its figures are provided by the governments of the various countries. I suspect that in Latin American countries there are more people who are able and willing to keep reliable statistics than in most sub Saharan countries.

In the early 1980's I lived in downtown San Jose, California when a large number of Vietnamese war refugees move there. Most of them were very poor. They were also very safe to live with. I would often get off work at 10:00 pm, and walk three miles home to my apartment. I was perfectly safe. If I tried that in the black majority city where I live now I would risk my life. If I did that on a regular basis I would probably be murdered in a few months, if not sooner.

I have been on white supremacist websites where I was banned for praising Jews and Orientals. I am a race realist. I am not a white nationalist. I am not a white supremacist. I do not identify with the alt right. My impression of alt rightists is that most are white men who would rather blame their problems on non whites, Jews (who they do not consider to be white) and liberals than the fact that increasingly the kinds of jobs they have the intelligence to learn how to perform can be performed better and less expensively by computers and industrial robots.

I prefer social democracy to the American system of casino capitalism, where the odds favor the house. Nevertheless, social democracy has only worked well in countries where nearly everyone is white and of European descent. Unfortunately, most Social Democrats do not recognize that. I believe on the basis of what has happened to the United States and what is happening to Europe that multi racialism is the death wish of social democracy.

 

[SmartCat]

[Full disclosure. I'm a retired scientist.]

While philosophers find pleasure in coming up with theoretical ways to get around causality, it remains a firm foundation in science. Given the assertions in the OP, it's reasonable to ask for proof. What, specifically, causes the observed differences? What, specifically, is the mechanism involved?

Until this is established, we would do well to suspend judgment on the arguments presented. It's best to categorize them as beliefs.

Because you are a scientist I am sure you are aware of the discovery of alleles that influence intelligence and behavior. You are aware that while these alleles are found in each of the races, they are more frequently found in some races than others.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Appalachia is safe to walk through after dark, unlike black ghettos.

it may be safer than a black ghetto if you're white.

If not, then no.

 

[Dittohead not!]

If black run countries had the organizational skills of white and Oriental countries I am confident they would be at least as collectively lethal as white and Oriental countries have been on occasion. Think about what happened in Rwanda between the Hutu and the Tutsi. Nevertheless, white and Oriental countries are safe to live in. Black run countries are not.

Germany was none too safe back in the '30s. Northern Ireland wasn't the safest place when religious strife prevailed there.

 

[SmartCat]

Indeed; Arabs gave us mathematics (Al jabr), the Indian subcontinent first conceived the concept of 'zero' and many of our western 'inventions' originated in the far and middle east.

Science in the medieval Islamic world - Wikipedia

History of science and technology in the Indian subcontinent - Wikipedia

These were advanced, established civilisations while western man was running around in animal skins, hunting and gathering and living in caves.

No major invention or discovery has emerged from the Muslim world for well over seven centuries now.

- Pervez Hoodbhoy, head of physics Department in Islamabad, P.A. Hoodbhoy, "Science and the Islamic World - The Quest for Rapprochement," Physics Today 60, no. 8 (2007): 49-55.

Estimates of Arab IQ's place them below 90.

IQ by Country

This puzzles me in view of what I have already said about the effect civilization has in selecting for higher intelligence. Nevertheless, cold weather also selects for intelligence.

I suspect that the Arab slave trade in Negroes has also contributed to lower Arab IQ averages. The Arab trade in Negro slaves began centuries before the European slave trade. Arabs castrated male slaves. They conscripted female slaves into brothels and harems. Through that conduit Negro IQ alleles entered the Arab genome.

 

[SmartCat]

it may be safer than a black ghetto if you're white.

If not, then no.

There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.... After all we have been through. Just to think we can't walk down our own streets, how humiliating.

- Jesse Jackson

Remarks at a meeting of Operation PUSH in Chicago (27 November 1993). Quoted in "Crime: New Frontier - Jesse Jackson Calls It Top Civil-Rights Issue" by Mary A. Johnson, 29 November 1993, Chicago Sun-Times (ellipsis in original). Partially quoted in "In America; A Sea Change On Crime" by Bob Herbert, 12 December 1993, New York Times.

 

[Deuce]

No major invention or discovery has emerged from the Muslim world for well over seven centuries now.

- Pervez Hoodbhoy, head of physics Department in Islamabad, P.A. Hoodbhoy, "Science and the Islamic World - The Quest for Rapprochement," Physics Today 60, no. 8 (2007): 49-55.

Estimates of Arab IQ's place them below 90.

IQ by Country

This puzzles me in view of what I have already said about the effect civilization has in selecting for higher intelligence. Nevertheless, cold weather also selects for intelligence.

I suspect that the Arab slave trade in Negroes has also contributed to lower Arab IQ averages. The Arab trade in Negro slaves began centuries before the European slave trade. Arabs castrated male slaves. They conscripted female slaves into brothels and harems. Through that conduit Negro IQ alleles entered the Arab genome.

IQ is a flawed scale and is not measuring what you think it's measuring.

Practice can improve your score on an IQ test, which proves it is measuring a learned skill and not some inherent genetic factor. But hey, keep regurgitating that white supremacist propaganda if it makes you feel better about yourself.

 

[Dittohead not!]

TheParser,

Your comment is well spoken. Political correctness can be seen as lying on behalf on social harmony. An outspoken race realist is similar to a guest at a Georgetown dinner party who tells the person sitting next to him that the hostess worked her way through Vassar as a call girl. Even if everyone knows that this is true, no especially if everyone knows that this is true, that dinner guest is likely to be removed from the invite lists of future dinner parties.

Nevertheless, when the truth hurts, it is sometimes necessary to inflict pain. When topics like immigration, affirmative action, race reparations, and race profiling are broached it becomes necessary to draw attention to the truths underlying race realism in order to prevent political policies that will be harmful.

You should keep in mind that there are environments where it is not only safe but expected to discuss the truths of race realism. For example, in a work situation where blacks are hired by affirmative action many whites and Orientals are likely to resent the fact that more intelligent white and Orientals friends of theirs were not hired. They are likely to resent the fact that they are expected to do those blacks' jobs for them. If there are a large number of blacks who are visibly not performing adequately, and if in addition they are unpleasant to work with, a person who denies the truths of race realism is likely to be ostracized.

A couple of observations:

First, Affirmative Action is on its way out. It was popular some 40 or so years ago, but really isn't a "thing" now:

Nine states in the US have ever banned the affirmative action: California (1996), Texas (1996), Washington (1998), Florida (1999), Michigan (2006), Nebraska (2008), Arizona (2010), New Hampshire (2012), and Oklahoma (2012). ... Affirmative action is controversial in American politics.
Affirmative action in the United States - Wikipedia
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia › wiki › Affirmative_action_in_the_United_States

Secondly, be aware that many Asians object to the term "Oriental."

 

[ataraxia]

Because you are a scientist I am sure you are aware of the discovery of alleles that influence intelligence and behavior. You are aware that while these alleles are found in each of the races, they are more frequently found in some races than others.

Even if true, would you want someone with all the alleles for intelligence from a race which supposedly has a lower frequency of them, to be pigeonholed and discriminated against just because they have the wrong corresponding skin color alleles?

 

[Dittohead not!]

There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.... After all we have been through. Just to think we can't walk down our own streets, how humiliating.

- Jesse Jackson

Remarks at a meeting of Operation PUSH in Chicago (27 November 1993). Quoted in "Crime: New Frontier - Jesse Jackson Calls It Top Civil-Rights Issue" by Mary A. Johnson, 29 November 1993, Chicago Sun-Times (ellipsis in original). Partially quoted in "In America; A Sea Change On Crime" by Bob Herbert, 12 December 1993, New York Times.

and being black in a small Appalachian town is not the safest thing either.

 

[ataraxia]

There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.... After all we have been through. Just to think we can't walk down our own streets, how humiliating.

- Jesse Jackson

Remarks at a meeting of Operation PUSH in Chicago (27 November 1993). Quoted in "Crime: New Frontier - Jesse Jackson Calls It Top Civil-Rights Issue" by Mary A. Johnson, 29 November 1993, Chicago Sun-Times (ellipsis in original). Partially quoted in "In America; A Sea Change On Crime" by Bob Herbert, 12 December 1993, New York Times.

The wild west wasn’t much better. Was that also about genetics?

 

[veritas1]

Intelligence can be defined as the ability to learn complex skills quickly and to remember those skills for a long time. Those who have taught in multi racial public schools have learned that average intelligence varies between the races, although they may be afraid to state it publicly. The failure of Head Start and No Child Left Behind to close racial differences in average academic performance is impressive and public evidence for racial differences in average intelligence.

These are not popular opinions regardless of their veracity. The differences between racial groups in standardized testing have been consistent and of long duration. That doesn't mean that individuals within said groups may not be superior to many within a group which scores higher overall, only that, as a group, there is a heirarchy of performance. Admitting this should not be controversial but, in our era of shutting down such discussions when they intrude on feelings, admitting to such beliefs can be harmful to careers or even lives.

 

[Good4Nothin]

IQ is a flawed scale and is not measuring what you think it's measuring.

Practice can improve your score on an IQ test, which proves it is measuring a learned skill and not some inherent genetic factor. But hey, keep regurgitating that white supremacist propaganda if it makes you feel better about yourself.

IQ is partly genetic. This is known because identical twins raised in separate families tend to have similar IQs.

Nutrition, health, and education influence IQ of course. But a large percent is inherited.

It is now known that acquired traits can be inherited (epigenetics). So maybe how educated your ancestors were can influence your IQ.

In places where most people were illiterate until recently, you might expect a lower average IQ.

Being illiterate would result in a lower IQ, but would NOT mean lower intelligence. And having a lower IQ probably does NOT cause a person to be violent! A low IQ and violence are both related to being poor and living in cities.

 

[SmartCat]

Even if true, would you want someone with all the alleles for intelligence from a race which supposedly has a lower frequency of them, to be pigeonholed and discriminated against just because they have the wrong corresponding skin color alleles?

No, certainly not. I do not want blacks to be discriminated against because they are black, like they were in the past. Right now they are discriminated in favor of because of affirmative action policies. I want an end to affirmative action.

 

[ecofarm]

Anti racists find my erudition and articulate prose, and my calm demeanor irritating.

With a little grammar, it might look like you graduated elementary school.

 

[SmartCat]

Secondly, be aware that many Asians object to the term "Oriental."

I have never known any. When I told my Vietnamese girl friend, "I prefer Oriental women."

She smiled and said, "You think we are much more wonderful."

"Oriental" used to be a perfectly acceptable word for Chinese and for nations who learned civilization from China. When "They" decided that the word could no longer be used, I was not consulted. I have also been told that the word "Negro" is not acceptable either. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. used the word "Negro" fifteen times in his "I have a dream speech." Consequently, I shall continue to use that word too. Thank you very much.

I have been banned from alt right websites because I make it clear that I prefer Orientals to white Gentiles.

 

[SmartCat]

IQ is a flawed scale and is not measuring what you think it's measuring.

Practice can improve your score on an IQ test, which proves it is measuring a learned skill and not some inherent genetic factor. But hey, keep regurgitating that white supremacist propaganda if it makes you feel better about yourself.

That is a widespread misconception that persists because people want to believe it. Since it was introduced a century ago IQ testing has demonstrated its ability to accurately predict academic and economic performance, as well as other desirable outcomes in life.

 

[Torus34]

Because you are a scientist I am sure you are aware of the discovery of alleles that influence intelligence and behavior. You are aware that while these alleles are found in each of the races, they are more frequently found in some races than others.

Hi! Such relationships are often worth exploring. That said, a cautionary 'correlation does not imply causation' is in order. One way to approach such a situation is to begin ruling out possible causes.

Regards.

 

[Napoleon]

That is a widespread misconception that persists because people want to believe it. Since it was introduced a century ago IQ testing has demonstrated its ability to accurately predict academic and economic performance, as well as other desirable outcomes in life.

And yet IQ testing is not comprehensive enough to capture the multi-faceted nature of intelligence. These tests are designed to measure primarily mathematically and spatially based deductive reasoning skills. A calculator can do that. That doesn’t make it intelligent by human standards.

 

[TheParser]

TheParser,

Your comment is well spoken. Political correctness can be seen as lying on behalf on social harmony. An outspoken race realist is similar to a guest at a Georgetown dinner party who tells the person sitting next to him that the hostess worked her way through Vassar as a call girl. Even if everyone knows that this is true, no especially if everyone knows that this is true, that dinner guest is likely to be removed from the invite lists of future dinner parties.

Nevertheless, when the truth hurts, it is sometimes necessary to inflict pain. When topics like immigration, affirmative action, race reparations, and race profiling are broached it becomes necessary to draw attention to the truths underlying race realism in order to prevent political policies that will be harmful.

You should keep in mind that there are environments where it is not only safe but expected to discuss the truths of race realism. For example, in a work situation where blacks are hired by affirmative action many whites and Orientals are likely to resent the fact that more intelligent white and Orientals friends of theirs were not hired. They are likely to resent the fact that they are expected to do those blacks' jobs for them. If there are a large number of blacks who are visibly not performing adequately, and if in addition they are unpleasant to work with, a person who denies the truths of race realism is likely to be ostracized.

Hi, Smart Cat:



I just wanted to gently and respectfully point out that the O-word is now considered offensive (except when referring to rugs). President Obama ordered all government bodies to use the word "Asian." I think that was a good idea. I assume that the Trump administration is following this policy, too.

Have a great weekend!

 

[j brown's body]

Yeah. Right now. It's pretty convenient to ignore the last 200 years when they were raping and pillaging in the west. What makes the last 20 years more significant a representation than the 200 that proceeded it?

Not to mention religious wars (Christians fighting Christians!), two World Wars and the murder of 6 million Jews.

Good people.

 

[Deuce]

That is a widespread misconception that persists because people want to believe it. Since it was introduced a century ago IQ testing has demonstrated its ability to accurately predict academic and economic performance, as well as other desirable outcomes in life.

How to Increase your IQ? - Learn More about Increasing IQ | 123test

The reality is the other way around. IQ tests very clearly measure a specific set of skills. Naturally, the chosen skills reflect the goals and preferences of the test designers. After all, you wouldn't design a test that you score poorly on yourself.

 

[SmartCat]

Have you checked your violent crime rate recently? I wouldn't call America safe, not by a long shot.

The United States has a high crime rate because we have high populations of blacks and Hispanics.

 

[SmartCat]

Hi, Smart Cat:



I just wanted to gently and respectfully point out that the O-word is now considered offensive (except when referring to rugs). President Obama ordered all government bodies to use the word "Asian." I think that was a good idea. I assume that the Trump administration is following this policy, too.

Have a great weekend!

I voted for Obama in 2008 and in 2012. I did not vote for that kind of nonsense.