Should Democrats Gerrymander in Response to Republican Gerrymandering?

[Peacenik]

So, is it your opinion the Democrats should not attempt anything whatsoever to counteract what’s happening in Texas?

Democrats should take the high road and do a much better job of messaging about it so people understand better what's going on.

 

[Tangmo]

But using gerrymandering would make the Dems anti-democratic.

How is having both parties anti-democratic better for democracy than just having one?

America is a post Constitutional society already.

There are no rules any more as there were pre Trump/MAGA. The Rule of Law is hanging on by its fingernails.

Your question misses the whole of this I'm afraid. Your post is stuck in bothsidesism that Trump and MAGA have killed dead. 2024 was America's last free and fair election. Trump and MAGAs go all out all the time while the high minded Democrats/liberals are moribund because there's no high ground left for 'em.

 

[Peacenik]

Regaining the House is Dems best chance for a check on Trump and his Admin. To give up the opportunity by doing nothing would be seen as weakness.

The threats from Dem Governors are warranted.

Texas House panel advances redrawn congressional map that would add more GOP seats

The new district lines could be considered by the entire state House as soon as early next week.

www.texastribune.org

Giving the Republicans enough rope to hang themselves is the wise move here. Republicans think they can do anything. They are getting greedy. Those districts were already redrawn in Republican favor after the 2020 Census. The only way Republicans can gain more favor is to spread themselves thinner. If they do this, and then lose favor because the economy goes into recession, they stand to lose more seats than if they had left it alone. It could actually backfire bgily.

Democrats need to stand up for what is right - call for an independent commission to draw the maps as was done in Michigan.

 

[Peacenik]

The rules have been thrown out so I'm tired of all this talk about how gerrymandering is evil.
It is, now get over it because discussion of the evils of gerrymandering while a sitting president discusses the idea of stripping native born Americans of their citizenship and putting them in Alligator Alcatraz or the next one built in your back yard is like discussing the illegality of running a red light while a semi truck with failed brakes is bearing down on your Geo Metro's ASS END at sixty miles per hour.

It is no longer hyperbole to say this may be the last election.
It may already be too late.

Trump is literally using the tools of the Founders to erase everything they fought bled and died for.

Then we need to attack corruption itself on the local level. Now.

 

[Peacenik]

No, it's an argument for playing by the same rules of the game as everyone else. If the rules are the wrong thing, then change the rules. But don't ignore them while they are in effect. It would be like a basketball team deciding on their own that they don't like the rules about 3-pointers, so they just aren't going to shoot any 3-pointers during their games. All that will happen is their opponents will crush them.

Bad analogy. It ignores the moral aspect.

I would rather have more Democratic congressional seats than a populace that loves politics and turns out to vote more frequently. I'm not even sure having a more politically engaged public would be a good thing.

Nazis argued against democracy and claimed it was a flawed system. Their idea didn't work out too well either.

 

[Peacenik]

If the two sides are playing by different rules which leads to elections that disproportionately favor one side relative to their level of actual support, is THAT a good outcome for democracy?

Our democracy has been bought. Corruption is our enemy. We need to fight corruption to re-establish democracy.

 

[Tangmo]

That is the goal but if the means match what you're fighting, then what is it you're fighting for?

For the good guys to win.

Cowards don't ever see the point of fighting.

Cowards will say anything to avoid a fight to win against the fascist enemy who never quits until they prevail. Then rule over the cowards too. This is the only result when cowards spend all their time fighting the good guys. The bad guys win.

When all is said and done cowards are much better off when the good guys win.

 

[Peacenik]

Both democrats and republicans state gerrymander. Nothing new and nothing will change.

Republicans do it more. Democrats undid it in Michigan. Name one State where Republicans set up independent commissions to draw the maps?

 

[Tangmo]

It worked well in 2008. It can work again.

The post says Trump & MAGAs don't exist.

 

[CimpleMan]

Giving the Republicans enough rope to hang themselves is the wise move here. Republicans think they can do anything. They are getting greedy. Those districts were already redrawn in Republican favor after the 2020 Census. The only way Republicans can gain more favor is to spread themselves thinner. If they do this, and then lose favor because the economy goes into recession, they stand to lose more seats than if they had left it alone. It could actually backfire bgily.

Democrats need to stand up for what is right - call for an independent commission to draw the maps as was done in Michigan.

Just don't have your faith. Think passivity is the wrong choice in this specific matter.

Politics has always been a dirty game. That's not going to change regardless how Dems decide to play in this instance.

We'll just have to disagree and leave it at that.

 

[Tangmo]

Our democracy has been bought. Corruption is our enemy. We need to fight corruption to re-establish democracy.

America has become a post Constitutional society.

Corruption comes with power and authority and Trump & MAGAs have the authority and power. There's no one to investigate 'em, indict 'em, prosecute 'em. Your posts are platitudes.

 

[PeteEU]

That is the goal but if the means match what you're fighting, then what is it you're fighting for?

Yes I agree.. however I fear it is already too late to do it "the nice way". The mid-terms, IF they happen.. will be key for democracy in the US. So far the Democrats have been whimps and have not pushed back enough against the open corruption of the Trump administration. Of course they are no where near as bad as the GOP congress members.... a bunch of quislings.

 

[Tangmo]

Democrats should take the high road and do a much better job of messaging about it so people understand better what's going on.

Spoken at a liberal cocktail party.

 

[Tangmo]

Democrats need to stand up for what is right - call for an independent commission to draw the maps as was done in Michigan.

Politely of course.

 

[Peacenik]

Can you suggest some "independents"?


I don't see any.

America is divided by a growing chasm of lies and distrust

Michigan has it.

 

[BabaVoss]

It's difficult to fight for higher morals when compromising one's own morals to do it.

Agreed.
But if you are fighting in a ring and your opponent keeps kicking you in the balls - and the ref refuses to do anything about it - you have two choices - kick back or lose.
If those who should stand up against this don't, there's nothing to be gained by claiming the moral high ground while you get kicked in the balls over and over again.
Trump has Congress and SCOTUS in his pocket, and has placed his incompetent sycophants all over the federal government.
Now he is trying to seal the deal by cheating in the election again.
I say let's kick him in the balls if we have the chance.

 

[Peacenik]

It's not needed in Texas, either.

Every seat counts. The larger the majority, the more power you have, either to pass your own legislation or to thwart theirs.

Even if we win back the House fairly, Republicans will be overrepresented because of their own gerrymandering. And nothing will get done, resulting in a predictable swing of the pendulum, because nothing got done in Congress. I don't mind an even pendulum swing, but when there is even a slight force affecting that, it affects all swings down the line. I'd prefer that that advantage was ours.

We have to think of the long game. It is too simplistic to think instant gratification. The hearts and minds of the people must be won. That is the goal of the nonpartisan American Anti Corruption Act model legislation that when passed locally all over America sends the message that we want better candidate choices. Candidates who are not bought by big money.

 

[Tangmo]

Giving the Republicans enough rope to hang themselves is the wise move here. Republicans think they can do anything. They are getting greedy. Those districts were already redrawn in Republican favor after the 2020 Census. The only way Republicans can gain more favor is to spread themselves thinner. If they do this, and then lose favor because the economy goes into recession, they stand to lose more seats than if they had left it alone. It could actually backfire bgily.

We see how that's worked out so far eh.

NOT.

Of all the worst ideas of all cowards throughout history, that one in the USA is the worst of 'em all. Liberals don't have to do a damn thing. It is flat out pathetic and the surest way to keep losing without fail. Liberals will do anything to make sure they don't have to do anything at all and ever.

"Poof" it just goes away. By itself. What a relief eh! All's well that ends well. Without even trying.

 

[Peacenik]

For the good guys to win.

Cowards don't ever see the point of fighting.

Cowards will say anything to avoid a fight to win against the fascist enemy who never quits until they prevail. Then rule over the cowards too. This is the only result when cowards spend all their time fighting the good guys. The bad guys win.

When all is said and done cowards are much better off when the good guys win.

Fascism self-destructs. Just wait for it.

 

[Peacenik]

America has become a post Constitutional society.

Corruption comes with power and authority and Trump & MAGAs have the authority and power. There's no one to investigate 'em, indict 'em, prosecute 'em. Your posts are platitudes.

No. You're not paying attention to my posts. They describe a plan that will work. It has before and it will this time. It will take a long time. Instant gratitude did not form this nation and it won't save it.

 

[Peacenik]

Yes I agree.. however I fear it is already too late to do it "the nice way". The mid-terms, IF they happen.. will be key for democracy in the US. So far the Democrats have been whimps and have not pushed back enough against the open corruption of the Trump administration. Of course they are no where near as bad as the GOP congress members.... a bunch of quislings.

Democrats are not going to win anything by fighting dirty except a reputation for fighting dirty.

 

[Tangmo]

We have to think of the long game. It is too simplistic to think instant gratification. The hearts and minds of the people must be won. That is the goal of the nonpartisan American Anti Corruption Act model legislation that when passed locally all over America sends the message that we want better candidate choices. Candidates who are not bought by big money.

Since January 20th America has become a post Constitutional republic.

Your "long game" is dead.

The 21st Century Uniquely Americans Fascists have whizzed right past you already, never mind over the "long game."

 

[Tangmo]

No. You're not paying attention to my posts. They describe a plan that will work. It has before and it will this time. It will take a long time. Instant gratitude did not form this nation and it won't save it.

No clue.

 

[Peacenik]

Agreed.
But if you are fighting in a ring and your opponent keeps kicking you in the balls - and the ref refuses to do anything about it - you have two choices - kick back or lose.
If those who should stand up against this don't, there's nothing to be gained by claiming the moral high ground while you get kicked in the balls over and over again.
Trump has Congress and SCOTUS in his pocket, and has placed his incompetent sycophants all over the federal government.
Now he is trying to seal the deal by cheating in the election again.
I say let's kick him in the balls if we have the chance.

Wear a cup. There's always another option.

 

[BabaVoss]

Wear a cup. There's always another option.

I don't see one in this case.