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Say "Merry Christmas" or else!

I haven't observed that at all, but if they are, what problem is there so long as they extend courtesy and compassion to their gay clientele as much as anybody else? Martin Luther King was also anti-gay, definitely anti-gay marriage. Does that negate all he was? All that he stood for? All that he said and did?

Liberty requires us to allow people to hold opinions and beliefs that are not politically correct. I am arguing to judge people by what they DO and not by what we think they believe.

Well you don't observe to well then and the problem is they do not treat them the same and try not to when they can get away with it. That is exactly what they are being judged for, what they do. DO they do good? yes, are they antigay and anti-equal rights? you betcha.
 
My charity of choice is the red Cross but I'm not saying that the SA is not a good charity. I don't like when they but a guy in people's faces ringing an obnoxious bell playing on people's guilt to give them charity. I give of my own free will I don't need to be coerced into it. You know those people are not volunteers, they are paid to stand their and ring their bell. It's a seasonal job.

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The Salvation Army receives roughly $150 million or more from the 25,000 or so kettles scattered across the country. Among all the charities, they have one of the highest if not THE highest percentage of charitable contribution receipts that go to programs to help people who need that help. They do hire people, at minimum wage, who need work to man the kettles when they don't have sufficient staff or volunteers to do that. There are also a lot of volunteers who are manning the kettles. The money raised from the kettles is used pretty much 100% in the specific community where the kettles are located.

If you are offended by the kettles, then go to one of the stores that doesn't allow them. Meanwhile, I shall patronize stores as much as possible who encourage this important ministry.
 
It seems to me that the only ones furthering the phrase of "Happy Holidays" vs. "Merry Christmas" are retailers that don't want to have to put out separate ad campaigns for each of those holidays that are all around the same time. I think it has more to do with efficiency than PC-ness.
 
The Salvation Army receives roughly $150 million or more from the 25,000 or so kettles scattered across the country. Among all the charities, they have one of the highest if not THE highest percentage of charitable contribution receipts that go to programs to help people who need that help. They do hire people, at minimum wage, who need work to man the kettles when they don't have sufficient staff or volunteers to do that. There are also a lot of volunteers who are manning the kettles. The money raised from the kettles is used pretty much 100% in the specific community where the kettles are located.

If you are offended by the kettles, then go to one of the stores that doesn't allow them. Meanwhile, I shall patronize stores as much as possible who encourage this important ministry.
I'm not trying to disparage them for what they use the money for. They spend the money well. I disagree with their collections method.

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It seems to me that the only ones furthering the phrase of "Happy Holidays" vs. "Merry Christmas" are retailers that don't want to have to put out separate ad campaigns for each of those holidays that are all around the same time. I think it has more to do with efficiency than PC-ness.

Exactly....It was marketing scheme put forth by major corporations to appeal to a broader range of people in hopes to attract more costumers. This has everything to do with business, not religion. But the "right" would not tolerate this change and ran with it creating a fictional war....
 
All the kids ARE singing non-Christian songs in the public schools these days.
The 1st Amendment bars the state from establishing a religion. It makes sense that kids should not sing religious songs in school.

To impose a religious belief on children who do not belong to that religion is wrong.

To use the mechanisms of the state to require children to sing Christmas songs is unconstitutional and wrong.

To teach children about religions, in anything other than a historical or anthropological sense, is unconstitutional and wrong.

There are also plenty of opportunities for people to teach their kids about religions, and to express religious beliefs in the public square.


Meanwhile, Christianity has a long history of intolerance. Even in its earliest days, there was conflict over the interpretations of Christ that lasted centuries, whether it be James and Paul disagreeing, to numerous Gnostic interpretations, to feuds over the nature of the Trinity resulting in theologians condemning one another, to Irenaeus' attempts to purge the Church of "heretics." Constantine's demand that Christianity cohere into a single theology (at the First Council of Nicaea) is an expression of a refusal to allow theological diversity. This continued with centuries of persecuting Jews, Pagans and other non-Christians, to wars with Muslims, to invading Judea in the Crusades, to sectarian violence throughout Europe, to Puritan colonies outlawing all other religions and Christian sects, to anti-semitism and anti-Catholicism running rampant right through to the 1960s.

Religious liberty basically came to the fore in the early United States, because some of the earlier intolerant groups (like the Puritans) were starting to get outnumbered and outinfluenced by other sects, such as Anglicans in the 1750s. Even the colonies that instantiated religious liberties (like NY, PA, RI, DE) limited their official tolerance to Christian sects.

Not all of this was exclusively about religion. Not every single Christian, or Christian community, or Christian theologian, were intolerant. But it was not Christian theology itself that dictated tolerance in the early United States. It was political conditions, combined with Enlightenment ideals about human rights, which brought about that shift. There is no historical reason whatsoever to attribute religious liberty or tolerance to Christianity or Christian theology.
 
All the kids ARE singing non-Christian songs in the public schools these days. What I object to is that Christmas--not Ramadan, not Hannukah, ect.--is an official national holiday in honor of the MAJORITY Christian influence that established and settled this great nation. Because that CHRISTIAN influence was the basis for this great nation, ALL religions are safe and protected here and offered complete liberty to be who and what they are.

To forbid the children from the pure joy of learning and singing the truly great Christmas music, from having the right to truly celebrate CHRISTMAS as the traditional season--religious or secular--that it is, as the national Holiday that is declared, is wrong. To tell children the God they worship is unwelcome in their school is wrong and, in my opinion, has contributed to a great deal of what is wrong in the public schools these days.

Having said that, I have no problem with recognition of Hannukah if there are Jewish children in the school who would enjoy and appreciate that or recognition of Ramadan if there are Muslim children who would enjoy and appreciate that which probably won't happen because Islam generally forbids 'infidels' from participating in their religion. My sister taught music and directed choirs for her entire professional career and was blessed to be able to teach during the time that the great music of the classical or more contemporary masters was not forbidden in the school if it had religious origins, which much of it did.

She chose music that included contemporary and classical music, included some offerings with Spanish/Mexican/Cuban flavor as Hispanics make up a sizable percentage of our state's population, included some soul music from the deep south, included some with Native American flavor. Preparing for the Christmas concert she because aware that she had a number of Jewish kids in the chorus so she hunted up some Jewish music to include in the program. The Jewish kids, who had enthusiastically been singing the Christian stuff were thrilled, and the Christian kids enjoyed learning the Jewish music as much as the Jewish kids were enjoying theirs.

That is how it should be. No preaching or teaching of Christianity or any other religion. But acknowledging that Christian music, Christian customs, Christian holidays, Christian concepts have been a huge part of the national history and heritage and it is not only stupid, but also intellectually dishonest, to refuse to acknowledge that.

I am in my mid 20's and I can tell you when I was in grade school and high school (public school) Christmas was well represented, music and all....And I haven't seen any change in that.
 
If you are offended or outraged by hearing "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" or any other friendly salutation then you have issues.
 
Which is your right. Just don't complain about political correctness.

I can complain about anything I want. It's my right.
 
if you are offended or outraged by hearing "merry christmas" or "happy holidays" or any other friendly salutation then you have issues.

amen amen amen!
 
The Salvation Army receives roughly $150 million or more from the 25,000 or so kettles scattered across the country. Among all the charities, they have one of the highest if not THE highest percentage of charitable contribution receipts that go to programs to help people who need that help.
Neither of those claims are correct.

Their total annual income is $42 million. Direct contributions are around $3 million. They also get a lot of income from bequests, investment income, subscriptions, in-kind donations and more.

They spend 81% on programs, 1% on fundraising, 18% on administrative. That's average at best.

For example: Red Cross is 90% programs, 6% fundraising, 4% admin. United Way is 91% programs. Alzheimer's Foundation is 87% programs. Goodwill is 91%.
BBB Wise Giving Alliance - give.org
 
Not sure how that changes my comment. YOU are free to celebrate Christmas as you want. Since when are you entitled to a Christmas tree with cross AT WORK? If you want that on your tree, I'm pretty sure you can do it. You can put 100 crosses on your tree if you want!

I didn’t put the cross on the tree. The owner of the company is. Christian, and decorated the tree. He was under absolutely no obligation to change a thing, but decided he would in order to honor the one Jew at our company. No one else cares. We just rolled our eyes.
 
That does not stop you from celebrating the holidays how you see fit.

You just f9nt get it, do you? The company owner decorated the tree and hung the MERRY Christmas signs. He was under absolutely no obligation to change a thing, but he decided to do so to keep one worker happy. I thought it was bull**** myself, but I’m not the boss.
 
I'm not trying to disparage them for what they use the money for. They spend the money well. I disagree with their collections method.

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And that is your right to disagree with anything you disagree with. I don't mind their collection methods at all--it is a rich American tradition going back to 1891--that's 125 years of Salvation Army bell ringers. But each to their own. You are free to ignore the kettles or shop elsewhere. And I am free to appreciate them. So let it be written. So let it be done.
 
The 1st Amendment bars the state from establishing a religion. It makes sense that kids should not sing religious songs in school.

To impose a religious belief on children who do not belong to that religion is wrong.

To use the mechanisms of the state to require children to sing Christmas songs is unconstitutional and wrong.

To teach children about religions, in anything other than a historical or anthropological sense, is unconstitutional and wrong.

There are also plenty of opportunities for people to teach their kids about religions, and to express religious beliefs in the public square.


Meanwhile, Christianity has a long history of intolerance. Even in its earliest days, there was conflict over the interpretations of Christ that lasted centuries, whether it be James and Paul disagreeing, to numerous Gnostic interpretations, to feuds over the nature of the Trinity resulting in theologians condemning one another, to Irenaeus' attempts to purge the Church of "heretics." Constantine's demand that Christianity cohere into a single theology (at the First Council of Nicaea) is an expression of a refusal to allow theological diversity. This continued with centuries of persecuting Jews, Pagans and other non-Christians, to wars with Muslims, to invading Judea in the Crusades, to sectarian violence throughout Europe, to Puritan colonies outlawing all other religions and Christian sects, to anti-semitism and anti-Catholicism running rampant right through to the 1960s.

Religious liberty basically came to the fore in the early United States, because some of the earlier intolerant groups (like the Puritans) were starting to get outnumbered and outinfluenced by other sects, such as Anglicans in the 1750s. Even the colonies that instantiated religious liberties (like NY, PA, RI, DE) limited their official tolerance to Christian sects.

Not all of this was exclusively about religion. Not every single Christian, or Christian community, or Christian theologian, were intolerant. But it was not Christian theology itself that dictated tolerance in the early United States. It was political conditions, combined with Enlightenment ideals about human rights, which brought about that shift. There is no historical reason whatsoever to attribute religious liberty or tolerance to Christianity or Christian theology.

The 1st Amendment forbids the government to interfere with religion or prohibit the free exercise of it also. Therefore it is good and right that religious songs, especially the historical religious songs, not be prohibited in the public schools if the people want such music included in the school curriculum.

The 1st Amendment had nothing to do with the Puritans or any other of the more religiously intolerant groups who came to America. The 1st Amendment was to give those 'intolerant groups' a place to be who and what they were as well as allowing others to not be subject to religious tolerance or any other religious requirements who did not wish to be subject to that. The 1st Amendment as well as the main body of the Constitution was to prevent the federal government from establishing a state religion or from rewarding or punishing anybody for the religion they practiced. The first colonists came to America to escape that kind of tyranny in England and others would follow them here for the same reasons. It was not that they intended to be tolerant but they wanted the right to be who and what they were.

Intolerance has many forms. And political correctness is one of the worst forms of intolerance.
 
And that is your right to disagree with anything you disagree with. I don't mind their collection methods at all--it is a rich American tradition going back to 1891--that's 125 years of Salvation Army bell ringers. But each to their own. You are free to ignore the kettles or shop elsewhere. And I am free to appreciate them. So let it be written. So let it be done.
Civil disagreement is the American way

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I am in my mid 20's and I can tell you when I was in grade school and high school (public school) Christmas was well represented, music and all....And I haven't seen any change in that.

I'm sure it is in many places that the ACLU or other similar groups have not yet targeted. I am not a public school teacher but I tutor and have served as a substitute teacher and have many educators in my family. And every one of them and I have railed against the restrictions that are in place in most schools to avoid having a lawsuit brought against them. One school in our area fired their high school choir director because he included one too many traditional Christian songs in the winter music program--a song the kids themselves begged to have included. In many places, it has gotten that bad.

And that is why there is little to see of Christmas whether it involves a "Merry Christmas" or not when you walk into most public schools in December. Fear of the political correctness police is pervasion and ever present and evil.
 
I am in my mid 20's and I can tell you when I was in grade school and high school (public school) Christmas was well represented, music and all....And I haven't seen any change in that.

Same in my area too but its more fun to pretend and to push the lie that there is a war on Christmas. I work with youth groups and coach so I attend many of the shows and concerts and its just the same as it was foe me 20+ years ago. "Christmas" is celebrated probably more than ever actually, certainly a lot earlier than its ever been. Honest people dont buy in to the false narrative of a war on "Christmas"
 
Neither of those claims are correct.

Their total annual income is $42 million. Direct contributions are around $3 million. They also get a lot of income from bequests, investment income, subscriptions, in-kind donations and more.

They spend 81% on programs, 1% on fundraising, 18% on administrative. That's average at best.

For example: Red Cross is 90% programs, 6% fundraising, 4% admin. United Way is 91% programs. Alzheimer's Foundation is 87% programs. Goodwill is 91%.
BBB Wise Giving Alliance - give.org

You are citing the numbers the BBB reports for the National Salvation Army corporation. That does not include all the 7600 Salvation Army centers located throughout the United States or all those located in 126 other countries.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/season-of-kindness/salvation-army-red-kettles-numbers-n472246
 
Civil disagreement is the American way

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But trying to punish or destroy people because of what they think or believe is not. That is an invention of political correctness that I see as destructive, hateful, and evil.
 
But trying to punish or destroy people because of what they think or believe is not. That is an invention of political correctness that I see as destructive, hateful, and evil.

That would be destructive, hateful, and evil. Thank god that isn't happening in america. Who is being punished or destroyed for what the believe due to political correctness?
 
I'm sure it is in many places that the ACLU or other similar groups have not yet targeted. I am not a public school teacher but I tutor and have served as a substitute teacher and have many educators in my family. And every one of them and I have railed against the restrictions that are in place in most schools to avoid having a lawsuit brought against them. One school in our area fired their high school choir director because he included one too many traditional Christian songs in the winter music program--a song the kids themselves begged to have included. In many places, it has gotten that bad.

And that is why there is little to see of Christmas whether it involves a "Merry Christmas" or not when you walk into most public schools in December. Fear of the political correctness police is pervasion and ever present and evil.
If a school is in a largely muslim area can they celebrate those traditions front and center?
 
Trump: 'We're saying merry Christmas again' | TheHill





Beautiful Christmas season that people don't talk about? What reality is this guy in, I've been seeing and hearing about Christmas for the past couple weeks now and it's not even Halloween yet!

I do wonder how he plans to roll out to have department stores and whatnot say Merry Christmas. I mean, he can't actually think he's going to make people say Merry Christmas, right? :lol:

I wonder if Ivanka (a converted Jew) will be saying Merry Christmas to her children? Trump is such a whore.
 
I don’t think anybody should be required to endorse anyone’s religion. But I also don’t think that people who don’t believe in my religion should try to shame me into not celebrating the way I see fit.

And if someone has specifically religious symbols and for a religious holiday in their office, you don't think that implies they endorse it? And while I agree that no one should try to shame you into not celebrating, that does NOT mean you get to use company or government resources to support your celebration. Something at your desk, no one can touch that. But the office as a whole? That's involving everyone whether they like it or not.
 
And if someone has specifically religious symbols and for a religious holiday in their office, you don't think that implies they endorse it? And while I agree that no one should try to shame you into not celebrating, that does NOT mean you get to use company or government resources to support your celebration. Something at your desk, no one can touch that. But the office as a whole? That's involving everyone whether they like it or not.

I didn’t know that was against the law. So a Christian business owner can’t put a Christmas tree up in his office? And can’t put up Merry Christmas signs?

I hope ya’all know it is ISNT against the law. Doesn’t seem like some of you know that...
 
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