Russian IL-20 shot down by Syria as Israel used it as cover for attack

[Westphalian]

So, now Moscow has announced its counter-measures which are as I stated a few days ago.

Israel will now be forced to change its mode of operation, and can repent its unprofessionalism at leisure.

May those weapons start flowing into Lebanon. I wonder how many Israelis may eventually die as an indirect result of the Top Gun bravado of its Air Force.

 

[OlNate]

How many Germans have had to pay for choosing poorly in 1933? Excrement happens and people often have to pay for generations for the poor choices of their ancestors.

What horse****. Please, demonstrate ANY similarity between Germans today and Palestinians today - an especially fair question to ask, since the timelines have been roughly the same.

Good grief, you guys pile it on... :roll: How do you even hit the Post button on that?

 

[OlNate]

I have nothing against Jews, and nothing against muslims, christians or buddists. Everybody should get happy on his own way. Israel is the point here, and thats a state, not a religion. If religions definde special rights against others because their god gave them special rights - there I have a problem with...

And with your answer you only confirmed what I wrote before.

Could you show me one of my personal attacs?

Don't get worked up over it...he's a shameless, fanatical propagandist with zero credibility on this subject. Don't let him troll you. Every conversation re: Israel is the same - Israel is blameless, everyone else is wrong and out to get them and / or are anti Semitic. Every forum has a couple of them... :roll: :lol:

 

[Apocalypse]

So, now Moscow has announced its counter-measures which are as I stated a few days ago.

Israel will now be forced to change its mode of operation, and can repent its unprofessionalism at leisure.

May those weapons start flowing into Lebanon. I wonder how many Israelis may eventually die as an indirect result of the Top Gun bravado of its Air Force.

Unfortunately for those who'd wish so Russia, technology-wise, can't really force Israel to change anything.

 

[german hick]

Don't get worked up over it...he's a shameless, fanatical propagandist with zero credibility on this subject. Don't let him troll you. Every conversation re: Israel is the same - Israel is blameless, everyone else is wrong and out to get them and / or are anti Semitic. Every forum has a couple of them... :roll: :lol:

seems so - an honest poster would have found at least one personal attack or give an excuse..

 

[OlNate]

seems so - an honest poster would have found at least one personal attack or give an excuse..

Apparently they don't need an excuse over there...

 

[oneworld2]

Your opinions are based on empty wishes rather than reality.

My opinions are based on the history , coupled with an anti colonialist anti racist stance................ yours re obviously based on the opposite of that judging by your input here

Who's talking about getting to decide anything? There are facts. If the facts show that a person is defending himself against an armed robber that's self defense and if they show he's using a bat to attack an old lady then that's not self-defense.

You are the one who is spouting about who has the right to self defence and who doesn't.....based on a highly selective and narrow view imo...... my view is that all states peoples have that right.

Your analogies are also enlightening, always trying Israeli actions as defensive and Arab actions as aggressive in a world completely free of grey areas and or nuance. Israel defends itself from armed robbers but Arabs beat old ladies to death. All hyperbolic propagandistic hogwash in my opinion but let's just turn things in those analogous around to depict the true reality here.

Israel is the armed robber that the Palestinians and other Arab peoples that have been drawn into this conflict have been fighting off since the beginning of the 20th century. European Jews fleeing persecution in Europe turned up in Palestine with a bible in one hand and a rifle in the other. You know this story. The bible was proof that God had given the deeds of the land to the Jewish people and the rifle was there to make sure that the necessary eviction of the current tenants would be completed.

The facts are that the terrorists in the service of Iran target Jews worldwide for murder. The facts are that the targets of Israeli airstrikes are belonging to the same terrorists.

The facts are that some Arabs and Iranian allies murder some Jews and that some Jews murder some Arabs and some Iranian allies with everyone rightly believing the others pose a threat to their state/people. All have the right to self defence contrary to your claims. Your silence on the rights of others speaks volumes and it doesn't show any degree of balance imo

 

[oneworld2]

No idea what you're talking about here or how that's relevant to the discussion, looks like you're just trying to throw everything you have in your head.

Of course you do know what I'm talking about and of course it's relevant to any discussion that has had the race card played............... so seeing as it is you that chooses to play that card in virtually every thread in this sub forum you can thank yourself for it's introduction here again in another thread

It is something of a list of how some Jewish people , directly involved with the state of Israel in some form or other have duped people into believing that acts of racism in the form of Jewish supremacism are or should be , not only accepted but enshrined in laws. Hence it is highly relevant and perhaps you would be better served by actually trying to respond to it instead of wondering how it has appeared in the first place ( see above )

What you see as 'Jewish supremacism' and your "crusade" against it is rooted in the belief that Jews aren't equal humans and that they should face destruction be it the men the women and the children.
Hence your positions here constantly arguing against Jews not dying and against Jews existing at all.
It's a barbaric world view shared by many throughout history and they all failed. Jews yet exist.

What I see as Jewish supremacism is the Jewish supremacism spouted by those associated with the state of Israel , as per the list you chose not to respond to . Not equality at all but out and out racism.

 

[Apocalypse]

seems so - an honest poster would have found at least one personal attack or give an excuse..

Attacking my "attitude" even if it's in such bizarre fashion as it was in your previous post is a personal attack.
If you have nothing to say on a topic, why say anything?
Holding an anti-Israeli position doesn't make every input you may have relevant.

 

[Apocalypse]

My opinions are based on the history , coupled with an anti colonialist anti racist stance................ yours re obviously based on the opposite of that judging by your input here

They aren't based on anything reality-related.
Mostly racist nonsense joined by random attacks on "Jewish supremacism" (is that a thing?).

You are the one who is spouting about who has the right to self defence and who doesn't.....based on a highly selective and narrow view imo...... my view is that all states peoples have that right.

Saying that a man beating an old lady with a bat is called logical and factual discussion.
My position is that every country has the right to self defense, yet I was in a disagreement with you that beating an old lady with a bat counts as one.
Your position on the other hand is that a person has the right to self defense as long as he isn't Jewish, as is obvious from your NEDJ argument.

Your analogies are also enlightening, always trying Israeli actions as defensive and Arab actions as aggressive in a world completely free of grey areas and or nuance. Israel defends itself from armed robbers but Arabs beat old ladies to death. All hyperbolic propagandistic hogwash in my opinion but let's just turn things in those analogous around to depict the true reality here.

(...)

The facts are that some Arabs and Iranian allies murder some Jews and that some Jews murder some Arabs and some Iranian allies with everyone rightly believing the others pose a threat to their state/people. All have the right to self defence contrary to your claims. Your silence on the rights of others speaks volumes and it doesn't show any degree of balance imo

Yet more "beating an old lady with a bat is just as much self-defense as shooting an armed robber".

 

[Apocalypse]

Of course you do know what I'm talking about and of course it's relevant to any discussion that has had the race card played............... so seeing as it is you that chooses to play that card in virtually every thread in this sub forum you can thank yourself for it's introduction here again in another thread

It is something of a list of how some Jewish people , directly involved with the state of Israel in some form or other have duped people into believing that acts of racism in the form of Jewish supremacism are or should be , not only accepted but enshrined in laws. Hence it is highly relevant and perhaps you would be better served by actually trying to respond to it instead of wondering how it has appeared in the first place ( see above )




What I see as Jewish supremacism is the Jewish supremacism spouted by those associated with the state of Israel , as per the list you chose not to respond to . Not equality at all but out and out racism.

We've already covered why you bring up "Jewish supremacism". Same reason for why a person would constantly talk about "black privileges".

 

[OlNate]

Attacking my "attitude" even if it's in such bizarre fashion as it was in your previous post is a personal attack.
If you have nothing to say on a topic, why say anything?
Holding an anti-Israeli position doesn't make every input you may have relevant.

Holding a pro-Israeli propagandist position doesn't make every input you may have relevant either...

 

[OlNate]

They aren't based on anything reality-related.
Mostly racist nonsense joined by random attacks on "Jewish supremacism" (is that a thing?).



Saying that a man beating an old lady with a bat is called logical and factual discussion.
My position is that every country has the right to self defense, yet I was in a disagreement with you that beating an old lady with a bat counts as one.
Your position on the other hand is that a person has the right to self defense as long as he isn't Jewish, as is obvious from your NEDJ argument.



Yet more "beating an old lady with a bat is just as much self-defense as shooting an armed robber".

https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/06/04/israel-50-years-occupation-abuses

Now drop the victim complex, everyone is bored of it.

 

[Apocalypse]

Holding a pro-Israeli propagandist position doesn't make every input you may have relevant either...

My well structured views, which from a radical anti-Israeli view created through ignorance and mass propaganda are seen as "pro-Israeli propaganda", are relevant to the topic.
Can you say the same? What are you doing aside of throwing personal attacks? Nothing.

 

[Apocalypse]

https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/06/04/israel-50-years-occupation-abuses

Now drop the victim complex, everyone is bored of it.

Replying to a post with a propaganda link irrelevant to what's being discussed is lazy.
As said before just because a thread is about Jews or Israel doesn't mean any anti-Israeli or antisemitic input is relevant.
Pretending to speak for "everyone" is merely a pathetic way to try and base one's radical and barbaric world views.

 

[Bodi]

https://www.rt.com/news/438686-syria-russia-s200-il20/

“The Israeli pilots used the Russian plane as cover and set it up to be targeted by the Syrian air defense forces. As a consequence, the Il-20, which has radar cross-section much larger than the F-16, was shot down by an S-200 system missile,” the statement said.

The Russian ministry said the Israelis must have known that the Russian plane was present in the area, but this did not stop them from executing “the provocation.” Israel also failed to warn Russia about the planned operation in advance. The warning came just a minute before the attack started, which “did not leave time to move the Russian plane to a safe area,” the statement said.

So Syria shoots down a Russian plane and it is Israeli's fault? :lol:

I swear... the Jew Haters out there will just never stop.

 

[OlNate]

My well structured views, which from a radical anti-Israeli view created through ignorance and mass propaganda are seen as "pro-Israeli propaganda", are relevant to the topic.
Can you say the same? What are you doing aside of throwing personal attacks? Nothing.

Replying to a post with a propaganda link irrelevant to what's being discussed is lazy.
As said before just because a thread is about Jews or Israel doesn't mean any anti-Israeli or antisemitic input is relevant.
Pretending to speak for "everyone" is merely a pathetic way to try and base one's radical and barbaric world views.

bahaha...yes, dear, anything that talks ill about Israel has GOT to be propaganda. You are so damn predictable it physically hurts.

Let's look at the source, shall we?

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/human-rights-watch/

You were saying something about being pathetic? Yes...yes you are.

Here's the thing. You're on a debate forum, with people who like to do research. Your "woe is me, Israel is such a blameless victim, all we wanna do is protect ourselves, we're the good guys" boo hoo BS routine is debunked within about 5 seconds of Google searching. That's if we were brand new to the Israel / Palestine conflict, which we are not. Most of what you claim is just simply understood as nonsense to anyone that has learned even the barest amount of history on the subject. One need not rely on opinion pieces, or "propaganda", one merely needs to look at the timeline of events to understand that Israel has done MORE than their fair share of dirty deeds. What you say may pass for truth in your echo chamber circle jerks, but people think here.

The FACT is that BOTH sides have blood on their hands, BOTH sides are equally deserving of our sympathies, as well as our harsh judgment, and BOTH sides need to stop acting like the idiot siblings that they are, each ratting the other out to the rest of the world, while antagonizing and bullying when they think no one is looking. And when all of that is relatively even, the next thing to look at is who has done the most damage. Guess who that is. Israel, in pretty near every single column. Your inability to simply get along has cost the world BILLIONS upon BILLIONS. Of OUR money, not YOURS. So anyone playing the victim card at this point can kiss my ass, be they Palestinian OR Israeli.

Now, go on, go ahead, call me an anti-Semite...that's what comes next, isn't it? Pretty sure I have gone through this enough times to know what the next step in the dance is.

Pfft...pathetic indeed!

 

[Apocalypse]

You were saying something about being pathetic?

Yes, I was. Judging by your emotional reply it seems that you agree.
You posted a link to some propaganda you found using Google that had nothing to do with what's discussed.
That's pathetic.

 

[OlNate]

Yes, I was. Judging by your emotional reply it seems that you agree.
You posted a link to some propaganda you found using Google that had nothing to do with what's discussed.
That's pathetic.

lol...whatever, dude, everyone knows what you're about. Cry about insults where they don't exist, yet insult everyone who disagrees with you. I couldn't possibly care less if you call me pathetic, it appears that's all you've got, when the facts leave you with nothing else. Good for you.

 

[oneworld2]

They aren't based on anything reality-related.
Mostly racist nonsense joined by random attacks on "Jewish supremacism" (is that a thing?).




Saying that a man beating an old lady with a bat is called logical and factual discussion.
My position is that every country has the right to self defense, yet I was in a disagreement with you that beating an old lady with a bat counts as one.
Your position on the other hand is that a person has the right to self defense as long as he isn't Jewish, as is obvious from your NEDJ argument.



Yet more "beating an old lady with a bat is just as much self-defense as shooting an armed robber".

You , unsurprisingly , tend to support the old colonialists of the region like France and the British whose whole self serving colonial debacle was based on theft and racism . Maybe you share the same or a similar mentality. I wouldn't argue otherwise so you are once again the one who is forced to invert reality so as to back your extremist positions.

I gave you a list of real life instances of those pushing a Jewish supremacist agenda, so yes it's a real thing............... you've chosen to avoid it like the plague for obvious reasons. You also edited out how the charge of armed robbers is more apt for the Israeli state and it's people than it is for the Arabs in the post that this is supposed to be a response to. Did you struggle again ?

All you have is false accusations of racism and ridiculous false analogies designed to take the debate into the realms of farce. You don't wish to debate with facts because you will lose so we are subjected to the aforementioned nonsense at every turn.

The list I gave is made up of a whole host of easily verifiable facts that show just how far some people are willing to go to promote Jewish supremacist views.................... if you want to claim that you deal in facts then you should address the list of them already given instead of relying on ridiculous and inaccurate analogies.

Deal with the list that shows unavowed Jewish racism

 

[oneworld2]

So nobody wants to talk about the list of actions/policies/demands that outline the existence of Jewish supremacism as pushed by many associated with the state of Israel................ and there are those that claim to deal in facts but indulge in anything but. Same as it ever was here

 

[Apocalypse]

So nobody wants to talk about the list of actions/policies/demands that outline the existence of Jewish supremacism as pushed by many associated with the state of Israel................ and there are those that claim to deal in facts but indulge in anything but. Same as it ever was here

The antisemitic nonsense you title "Jewish supremacism" has nothing to do with this thread and as such cannot be discussed here in accordance with forum rules.
It's a sad attempt to divert attention from the fact that you reject acts of self-defense specifically when taken by those who are Jewish, anyway.

 

[oneworld2]

The antisemitic nonsense you title "Jewish supremacism"

What was antisemitic in that list of obvious Jewish supremacist actions/deeds ?

has nothing to do with this thread and as such cannot be discussed here in accordance with forum rules.It's a sad attempt to divert attention from the fact that you reject acts of self-defense specifically when taken by those who are Jewish, anyway.

Weak and wrong but wholly predictable

 

[CJ 2.0]

What was antisemitic in that list of obvious Jewish supremacist actions/deeds ?





Weak and wrong but wholly predictable

Seems we are in the Jews see themselves as better than everyone else phase of the AS cycle in the progressive left. Good times. Personally, I like this one much better than the Jews are inferior and corrupting our civilization phase, which invariably quickly gets pretty nasty.

I'll just leave it with the observation that the argument that "Jews are supremacist because they see value in surviving and thriving as something distinct from others" is something we have flowed through a whole bunch of times on this merry-go-round of antisemitism that is modern western civilization.

You of course don't see it that way or even perceive what we are talking about but we've been around this road a whole bunch of times, and considering the alignment of your views with progressive dogma it isn't a huge surprise that you are absorbing and parroting their various working theories on society without picking up on their origins or implications.

It's just the same old nonsense we have been dealing with for millennia, packaged up as something shiny and new, but still designed to allow those who set themselves up opposite the Jews to see themselves as "superior". Think about it. for the progressive leftist, there are few sins worse than those that your accusations hurl upon the Jews. Which you do, like all leftists do, to make yourself feel like you are better than those Jews you so righteously condemn.

And yeah, I know you will just dismiss this out of hand too. But this really isn't for you as much as it is for some young lefty in training who hasn't quite gone over the edge into the antisemitic cesspool that is the modern progressive left, in the hopes that something they learned somewhere along the way will click into understanding how profoundly wrong, illiberal, and immoral this entire line of condemning the Jews really is.

 

[oneworld2]

I'll just leave it with the observation that the argument that "Jews are supremacist because they see value in surviving and thriving as something distinct from others" is something we have flowed through a whole bunch of times on this merry-go-round of antisemitism that is modern western civilization.

So there we have it.................................. " modern western civilisation " itself is " antisemitic " lol hilarious