Rudy Giuliani: "There's nothing wrong about taking information from the Russians"

[Cardinal]

Re: Rudy Giuliani: "There's nothing wrong about taking information from the Russians"

Ok i can respect that in principle. In practice how that would be defined is a muxh deeper debate but in general i can agree with your position.

That said you did not actually answer what i asked you.

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You asked what penalty and I gave the best answer I could. He should be impeached. He can't be prosecuted afterwards because, as Mueller made it clear, his actions didn't live up to a criminal standard.

 

[trouble13]

Not to mention the fact that details would come out as to exactly who these "russians" are and exactly who they were working for. It's a certainty some of these so-called Russians were actually working for the Obama administration.

There really are a lot of questions with answers that are being deeply hidden from the public that i really hope are answered.

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[Cardinal]

The GOP welcomes it?
The Obama Admin had no worries about using information from Russia in court.

Okay, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, whatever you say.

 

[Divine_Wind]

What is it you are saying Trump did that came 'right up to the line?"

Most definitely. Furthermore, I think he crossed it, but proving he crossed it is problematic. How long did it take the Feds to nail John Gotti? Everyone knew who he was and what he was doing, but since we are a nation of laws and due process, proving it was a problem.

Cohen testified about Trump's propensity to phrase actions in a certain matter so it was difficult, if not impossible, that he actually ordered anything.

 

[Divine_Wind]

There really are a lot of questions with answers that are being deeply hidden from the public that i really hope are answered.

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Correct. One day a Russian patriot will stand up and free his/her fellow Russians from Putin's power and many of those questions will be answered.

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[humbolt]

Taking information from Russians is bad, huh? Wonder where that leaves the DNC, the Clinton campaign, and the FISA warrants with regard to the Steele dossier?

 

[trouble13]

Re: Rudy Giuliani: "There's nothing wrong about taking information from the Russians"

You asked what penalty and I gave the best answer I could. He should be impeached. He can't be prosecuted afterwards because, as Mueller made it clear, his actions didn't live up to a criminal standard.

I think maybe we are talking past each other. You said this:

A green light to Russians to continue and even increase their efforts to interfere in our elections. There are no penalties for doing so and the GOP welcomes it. Why not hack our election to kingdom come in 2020?

Your saying Trump should be impeached because Russia interfered with our elections. I assume you mean trump should be impeached for not doing reporting it? Which if so, OK i can agree in principle that perhaps that is a new standard we dhould consider to serve as a deterent tobit happening in the furure.

What your response leaves unanswered for me is:

What should happen to Russia anything?
What about Clinton purchasing intel from foreign places, should that be a crime
What about Obama should his administration face any penalties for standing down?
Should we have laws preventing us from trying to influence other countries elections?
If Trump was doing bad things and another country hsd indormation about it and gave it clinton should it be a criminal act for her to use it?

I could go on and on with these questions but i think you get the point. There are lots of layers yo this onion and its not easy to unpeel.

Where i fall on this is i am a freedom of information and freedom of speech person. Provided the information is true and its in the public sector, i support it coming out. I strongly support privacy rights for private citizens also.

I defended obamas decission to pardon Manning and i advocate giving both Snowden and Assange pardons as well. Imo all 3 are heroes. I only tell you this to give your perspective on where i come from in this discussion.







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[Cardinal]

Re: Rudy Giuliani: "There's nothing wrong about taking information from the Russians"

I think maybe we are talking past each other. You said this:



Your saying Trump should be impeached because Russia interfered with our elections. I assume you mean trump should be impeached for not doing reporting it? Which if so, OK i can agree in principle that perhaps that is a new standard we dhould consider to serve as a deterent tobit happening in the furure.

No, I'm saying he should be impeached for welcoming and encouraging that interference, and for attempting to establish an ongoing relationship with a hostile foreign power for cooperation. And of course he should be impeached for never reporting to the FBI the GRU's attempts to foster this relationship. And of course he should be impeached for lying to the American people 100% of the time about those Russian contacts. Again, while it may not have lived up to a criminal standard, all of it shows a total contempt for the American people, our country and our democratic process and he has no business being President of a democratic country.

What your response leaves unanswered for me is:
What should happen to Russia anything?

With all due respect, knowing that Trump should be impeached for what he did doesn't require me to be an international policy wonk. We've had ways of hitting back at countries without starting WWIII. We can continue to do those things.

What about Clinton purchasing intel from foreign places, should that be a crime

Why? That had nothing to do with a hostile foreign power undermining and interfering in our election.

What about Obama should his administration face any penalties for standing down?

In order to answer that question, then you have to go one layer deeper and answer a more pertinent one: why didn't McConnell sign on to a bipartisan statement to condemn Russia's ongoing interference in our election? When you answer that, then you'll be better equipped to address your question.

Should we have laws preventing us from trying to influence other countries elections?

This is not material to whether we should stand for a Presidential that would undermine our own democratic process in order to win an election.

If Trump was doing bad things and another country hsd indormation about it and gave it clinton should it be a criminal act for her to use it?

I could go on and on with these questions but i think you get the point. There are lots of layers yo this onion and its not easy to unpeel.

Where i fall on this is i am a freedom of information and freedom of speech person. Provided the information is true and its in the public sector, i support it coming out. I strongly support privacy rights for private citizens also.

I defended obamas decission to pardon Manning and i advocate giving both Snowden and Assange pardons as well. Imo all 3 are heroes. I only tell you this to give your perspective on where i come from in this discussion.

I know you could go on with these questions, but all they do is take us further out from the central point: is it right for the President of a democratic country to cheat and undermine our own electoral system in order to become President? And should that person get to remain President after we've arrived at the determination that that's what he did?

 

[Irwin Corey]

"There's nothing wrong about taking information from the Russians"

True, IF you're NOT running for President of The United States! If Don Vito tRump wasn't such a crook I'd almost feel sorry for him; of all the lawyers in the world he ends up with "Rudi Can't Shoot Straight".

 

[ocean515]

Evidently Mueller agrees with Rudy, since no American was indicted for "taking information from the Russians".

Not even Hillary, who laundered money to take information from the Russians.

 

[ocean515]

AFAIK, it wasn't illegal, just immoral. Consorting with an enemy who has repeatedly acted hostile toward US interests goes up to the line but doesn't seem to cross over into treason. Sad.

So, when should the DNC be disbanded for the immoral action of consorting with the enemy? Or is the fact it's become the New Democratic Party, controlled by Progressives, sufficient penalty?

 

[kitsune]

True, IF you're NOT running for President of The United States! If Don Vito tRump wasn't such a crook I'd almost feel sorry for him; of all the lawyers in the world he ends up with "Rudi Can't Shoot Straight".

I think Trumpy is more of a Fredo than a Don Vito

 

[Mycroft]

Taking information from Russians is bad, huh? Wonder where that leaves the DNC, the Clinton campaign, and the FISA warrants with regard to the Steele dossier?

Trump haters: "That's different."

 

[trouble13]

Correct. One day a Russian patriot will stand up and free his/her fellow Russians from Putin's power and many of those questions will be answered.

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Are you really so deeply immersed in the partisan rancor that your incspable of having meaningful dialouge with alernate points of view. Is that where you want to be.

By all means i encourage you to come at me with both barrels of your positions. I will discuss and yes concede points to you if you make them.

The nonsense you just posted is beneath discussion. Not trying to insult you at all but to quote our first lady "be better". We may disagree but im not your enemy.

Imsult contests are nothing but ghetto and entireky unproductive uses of peoples time

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[Divine_Wind]

So, when should the DNC be disbanded for the immoral action of consorting with the enemy? Or is the fact it's become the New Democratic Party, controlled by Progressives, sufficient penalty?

At the same time you disband the RNC.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Are you really so deeply immersed in the partisan rancor that your incspable of having meaningful dialouge with alernate points of view. Is that where you want to be....

No.

FWIW, I fail to see the point of discussing US politics with either hostile foreigners or people so young they haven't successfully passed HS English. Besides the emotionalism often coming from them, their failure to have a fluent grasp of the English language leads to too many misunderstandings and needless argument.

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[marke]

Rudy Giuliani said on Sunday that there’s ‘nothing wrong’ with taking information from Russians, after the Mueller report laid out extensive ties between the Trump campaign and Russians during the 2016 election campaign. Giuliani was being interviewed with Jake Tapper on CNN this morning and said; “Any candidate in the world would take information,” even as Tapper noted the information came from a “hostile foreign source.”

Here's a primer for Rudy Giuliani and anyone else who thinks there's nothing wrong with taking information from Russians. NO it's not okay to take information from a foreign country who hacked our election and used social media to help Trump win the election.


View attachment 67255520

Obama worked his magic so the Russian lawyer could reenter the county after having been banned by a New York court for criminal behavior. That criminal lawyer met with democrat hireling and friend, Glenn Simpson on June 8, 2016. She then met with Trump Jr. on June 9, 2016 and then again with Glenn Simpson on June 10, 2016. No information changed hands and yet the democrats claimed the meeting (which had been arranged by people working for Glenn Simpson and the DNC) was evidence of "Russian collusion."

What a bunch of mob crooks the democrat have running their campaigns.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Rudy Giuliani said on Sunday that there’s ‘nothing wrong’ with taking information from Russians, after the Mueller report laid out extensive ties between the Trump campaign and Russians during the 2016 election campaign. Giuliani was being interviewed with Jake Tapper on CNN this morning and said; “Any candidate in the world would take information,” even as Tapper noted the information came from a “hostile foreign source.”

What Giuliani is doing here is legitimizing Russian and foreign interference in US elections.

Disingenuous and treasonous.

 

[Athanasius68]

What Giuliani is doing here is legitimizing Russian and foreign interference in US elections.

Disingenuous and treasonous.

Giuliani should not have said this.
However, the Obama Admin had no issue using information from Russian anonymous sources in court against Americans at a time it knew Russia was messing with the election. That legitimizes such interference far more than any comment by Giuliani.

 

[trouble13]

Re: Rudy Giuliani: "There's nothing wrong about taking information from the Russians"

No, I'm saying he should be impeached for welcoming and encouraging that interference, and for attempting to establish an ongoing relationship with a hostile foreign power for cooperation. And of course he should be impeached for never reporting to the FBI the GRU's attempts to foster this relationship. And of course he should be impeached for lying to the American people 100% of the time about those Russian contacts. Again, while it may not have lived up to a criminal standard, all of it shows a total contempt for the American people, our country and our democratic process and he has no business being President of a democratic country.




With all due respect, knowing that Trump should be impeached for what he did doesn't require me to be an international policy wonk. We've had ways of hitting back at countries without starting WWIII. We can continue to do those things.



Why? That had nothing to do with a hostile foreign power undermining and interfering in our election.



In order to answer that question, then you have to go one layer deeper and answer a more pertinent one: why didn't McConnell sign on to a bipartisan statement to condemn Russia's ongoing interference in our election? When you answer that, then you'll be better equipped to address your question.



This is not material to whether we should stand for a Presidential that would undermine our own democratic process in order to win an election.



I know you could go on with these questions, but all they do is take us further out from the central point: is it right for the President of a democratic country to cheat and undermine our own electoral system in order to become President? And should that person get to remain President after we've arrived at the determination that that's what he did?

Im only going to respond to the first part of your response. The other stuff are conversation worthy but they are rabbit holes i think we both can agree are best left shelved for future debates and i will leave it at that.

I agree with uou that impeachment hearings should and even must be held at this point.

Your in the camp that Trump did stuff bad enough to remove him from office. Im in the camp that his actions dont reach that level.

We have an honest conflict of opinion. The civil way to resolve that is to have a trial.

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[Cardinal]

Re: Rudy Giuliani: "There's nothing wrong about taking information from the Russians"

Im only going to respond to the first part of your response. The other stuff are conversation worthy but they are rabbit holes i think we both can agree are best left shelved for future debates and i will leave it at that.

I agree with uou that impeachment hearings should and even must be held at this point.

Your in the camp that Trump did stuff bad enough to remove him from office. Im in the camp that his actions dont reach that level.

We have an honest conflict of opinion. The civil way to resolve that is to have a trial.

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It really doesn't have to be complicated, though. Answer this one simple question: Should a candidate who undermines his own country's democratic process be President?

 

[trouble13]

No.

FWIW, I fail to see the point of discussing US politics with either hostile foreigners or people so young they haven't successfully passed HS English. Besides the emotionalism often coming from them, their failure to have a fluent grasp of the English language leads to too many misunderstandings and needless argument.

Sent from Mordor with the One Ring to rule them all

I hope your not implying im illiterate

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[trouble13]

Re: Rudy Giuliani: "There's nothing wrong about taking information from the Russians"

It really doesn't have to be complicated, though. Answer this one simple question: Should a candidate who undermines his own country's democratic process be President?

I will do my best to answer your question but i dont see it as a simple question.

I think we can both agree that nobody was physically prevented from voting and no total were physically changed in the machines. Hopefully we can agree that disregard thst particular aspect.

That leaves us with influencing peoples on how they vote. That very sticky.

My position is a bit garbled on this area. Is it fair to bring up whitewater or trump university, im really not sure. I side on yes more than no but im wobbly on it. They both appear to be crooked parts of their oast but they have not been convicted. Is it fair to bring attention to that stuff? Im not really sure where i fall on that but when in doubt i go with transparency


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[Cardinal]

Re: Rudy Giuliani: "There's nothing wrong about taking information from the Russians"

I will do my best to answer your question but i dont see it as a simple question.

I think we can both agree that nobody was physically prevented from voting and no total were physically changed in the machines. Hopefully we can agree that disregard thst particular aspect.

That leaves us with influencing peoples on how they vote. That very sticky.

My position is a bit garbled on this area. Is it fair to bring up whitewater or trump university, im really not sure. I side on yes more than no but im wobbly on it. They both appear to be crooked parts of their oast but they have not been convicted. Is it fair to bring attention to that stuff? Im not really sure where i fall on that but when in doubt i go with transparency


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You don't need to focus on whether or not voters were prevented from voting to address whether you think Trump's repeated behavior in undermining our democratic system makes him fit to be the head of state of a democratic country.

 

[trouble13]

Re: Rudy Giuliani: "There's nothing wrong about taking information from the Russians"

You don't need to focus on whether or not voters were prevented from voting to address whether you think Trump's repeated behavior in undermining our democratic system makes him fit to be the head of state of a democratic country.

I dont think he is guility of what your accusing him of...

I am open to hear you out on how you think he did that if you want to make thst srgument but i just dont see it

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