Roe vs Wade can be reversed?

[Gaugingcatenate]

Exactly. He seems to have no idea , nor any respect for how much a woman’s body and her physiology sacrifices to grow an unborn.

I have plenty of respect for those that arent murderers...or those who encourage murder. One has to earn respect, not simply just be a female.

 

[jaeger19]

Give us the details.

I simply do not trust your relating of the pertinent events. Other doctors here will be able to assess your determination as will I. If she will be dead in three weeks for certain, and 99% is pretty damn certain, should be provable... beyond shadow of doubt if a death sentence is to be imposed in this way, extrajudicially.

I would suggest if there is even the least doubt, if you and the mother so decide and that decision is questionable... it should be investigated and if there is not the proof of the ultimate termination of the mothers life, all included parties' details should be presented to a grand jury, let them decide whether to indict or not.

I never made any such declaration**. I do know there are many biased opinions on your side of the argument, that this IS a weighty decision not just for a mother (what about the father?) and medical practioners to decide. What if all such practioners on staff are pro abortion? Nah, that standard cannot apply. Its not a standard first of all.

Be willing to defend your decision in court. If you feel 99% certain, I am confident a jury will decide justly. Having no oversight to such an unregulated industry is not the proper way in a just society where the voiceless cannot defend themselves.



** Dont EVER put words that are not mine in quotes like that, attributing something I NEVER said to me. This shows a level of untrustworthy conduct that also make me suspect your 99% assertion of ultimate death that you stated earlier.

Really? You distrust my relating of the pertinent events.
So lets get this straight.

If she will be dead in three weeks for certain, and 99% is pretty damn certain, should be provable... beyond shadow of doubt if a death sentence is to be imposed in this way, extrajudicially.

Okay.. so now.. in order for woman to qualify for an abortion, her physician needs to be able to prove beyond a certainty of doubt.. WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. :doh

So your criteria to save a womans life.. is that you have to prove beyond 99% certainty WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. In other words.. prove future events!..

Wow.. so not only does a physician have to have a degree in medicine.. but they have to be able to PROVE the future.. with 99% certainty or more. And if they can't.. then they face going to prison for murder or accessory to murder!

There is no way to prove certainty of an event that HAS NOT TAKEN PLACE!

In other words.. you are going to cause needless death and suffering, because physicians ability to practice medicine will be curtailed by the threat of imprisonment.

I do know there are many biased opinions on your side of the argument, that this IS a weighty decision not just for a mother (what about the father?) and medical practioners to decide. What if all such practioners on staff are pro abortion?

First.. there is no such thing as being "pro abortion". Not for a medical practitioner. We can be pro choice. Letting our patients decide the best course of action based on the unbiased information we provide. But not "pro abortion". Despite the fact that you want to make this a political decision.. its not. Its a medical issue.. and a physicians personal feelings about abortion either way, should be secondary to the medical needs and wishes of the patients involved.

Dont EVER put words that are not mine in quotes like that, attributing something I NEVER said to me. This shows a level of untrustworthy conduct that also make me suspect your 99% assertion of ultimate death that you stated earlier.

Don't get mad just because your own words have shown that you have no concern for the woman or her child.

 

[jaeger19]

You are looking for honesty, integrity and intellectual reasonable rationally and logic in posts/views that have none. You wont find it there. Unfortunately SOME views from both sides are based on nothing but emotions and feelings and or dishonesty... it muddies the waters for others interested in honest fact based discussions with integrity to discusion between facts and opinions.

Oh I understand that folks like the one mentioned have no interest in facts, logic or honesty. Whats kind of ironic.. is all the hypocrisy that I see from these folks when it comes to their views. Some of the most rapid anti abortion folks.. the ones that picket outside clinics etc.. are ones that when their teenage daughter gets pregnant.. they take their daughter to get an abortion before anyone finds out she is pregnant.

I reply to these folks on the internet because there ARE folks who are on the fence when it comes to abortion and the issues involved. People that are logical and reasonable and who might be uncomfortable with the idea of a woman "using abortion as contraception".. as its portrayed by the rapid anti abortion folks.

I have found when you counter the anti abortion folks.. the rabid, dishonest ones, with rational scenarios and arguments.. it exposes their utter lack of understanding, and their bias and emotion. You notice that very few of the rabid anti abortion folks want to state that its fine if a woman dies in childbirth? Now.. I know that the rabid anti abortion folks don't give a rats butt about the womans life. Her life is meaningless to them. But.. they know their whole "pro life".. stance is unacceptable to the general public if they don't seem to care about the womans life.. so they offer the exception "well in case of the mothers life".

Then you start pinning them down on that.. and asking REAL questions of how that works? And suddenly their dishonesty is exposed. They are not "pro life".. they don't give a rats butt about the woman's life.. or really the suffering of the baby for that matter. They don't care if the baby is born to suffer terribly, knowing only pain, for even weeks until they succumb. They just care about control of the womans body, and their judgmental view of her worth. Abortion is only acceptable if you can prove with 99% certainty future events!. Anyone with any objective reasoning understands that's an impossibility and would put woman's lives at risk.

I think its important to expose that.. because I think it does more to create support for woman and their families and their physicians having the ability to make medical decisions free from government control.

 

[jaeger19]

That is all the woman has to be.

Could be ANY woman capable of becoming pregnant. Surrogacy is a good example. Basically, as to prenatal care, just a food pump and a warm, temperature controlled environment, a space to grow. Or a place to be cornered and dismembered, a dungeon torture chamber, take your pick.

Its the womans choice, eh?

Wow.. the callousness of that statement.. that the woman is

just a food pump and a warm, temperature controlled environment, a space to grow

is now exposed for everyone to see.

 

[jaeger19]

I have plenty of respect for those that arent murderers...or those who encourage murder. One has to earn respect, not simply just be a female.

Bingo.. according until you prove yourself worthy to you.. .. you are just female, not to be respected.

 

[Lursa]

Oh I understand that folks like the one mentioned have no interest in facts, logic or honesty. Whats kind of ironic.. is all the hypocrisy that I see from these folks when it comes to their views. Some of the most rapid anti abortion folks.. the ones that picket outside clinics etc.. are ones that when their teenage daughter gets pregnant.. they take their daughter to get an abortion before anyone finds out she is pregnant.

I reply to these folks on the internet because there ARE folks who are on the fence when it comes to abortion and the issues involved. People that are logical and reasonable and who might be uncomfortable with the idea of a woman "using abortion as contraception".. as its portrayed by the rapid anti abortion folks.

I have found when you counter the anti abortion folks.. the rabid, dishonest ones, with rational scenarios and arguments.. it exposes their utter lack of understanding, and their bias and emotion. You notice that very few of the rabid anti abortion folks want to state that its fine if a woman dies in childbirth? Now.. I know that the rabid anti abortion folks don't give a rats butt about the womans life. Her life is meaningless to them. But.. they know their whole "pro life".. stance is unacceptable to the general public if they don't seem to care about the womans life.. so they offer the exception "well in case of the mothers life".

Then you start pinning them down on that.. and asking REAL questions of how that works? And suddenly their dishonesty is exposed. They are not "pro life".. they don't give a rats butt about the woman's life.. or really the suffering of the baby for that matter. They don't care if the baby is born to suffer terribly, knowing only pain, for even weeks until they succumb. They just care about control of the womans body, and their judgmental view of her worth. Abortion is only acceptable if you can prove with 99% certainty future events!. Anyone with any objective reasoning understands that's an impossibility and would put woman's lives at risk.

I think its important to expose that.. because I think it does more to create support for woman and their families and their physicians having the ability to make medical decisions free from government control.

It's pure hypocrisy.

It comes down to the entirety of a life and future for a woman or that of the unborn.

They choose to value the unborn more than women and want the woman to sacrifice her needs, health, future, even her life, in order to give the exact same things to the unborn.

Why does the unborn deserve it more?

Because they *want* to judge and blame the women. Hence the 'innocence' BS about the unborn...they value some vacuum of emptiness over a woman as a silly rallying cry to illicit emotion.

And here's where the hypocrisy becomes obvious. And that even they recognize the unborn isnt equal. Most accept abortion in cases of rape, incest, and danger to the mother's health. When asked, they even say, 'because it's not her fault'.

So abortion is only wrong when the woman behaved in a manner they didnt approve of, which in most cases is having sex and failed birth control...which statistically has to happen.

The kid, the pregnancy, are a 'fallen woman's' punishment. "She opened her legs, she deserves her consequences." That's another common line. The kid is punishment...and yet they accuse pro-choice people of dehumanizing the unborn :roll:

And then as well all know, the real conservatives and yup, the supposedly 'devout' Christians would all deny this small new family unit public assistance if they could :roll:

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Really? You distrust my relating of the pertinent events.
So lets get this straight.



Okay.. so now.. in order for woman to qualify for an abortion, her physician needs to be able to prove beyond a certainty of doubt.. WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. :doh

So your criteria to save a womans life.. is that you have to prove beyond 99% certainty WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. In other words.. prove future events!..

Wow.. so not only does a physician have to have a degree in medicine.. but they have to be able to PROVE the future.. with 99% certainty or more. And if they can't.. then they face going to prison for murder or accessory to murder!

There is no way to prove certainty of an event that HAS NOT TAKEN PLACE!

In other words.. you are going to cause needless death and suffering, because physicians ability to practice medicine will be curtailed by the threat of imprisonment.



First.. there is no such thing as being "pro abortion". Not for a medical practitioner. We can be pro choice. Letting our patients decide the best course of action based on the unbiased information we provide. But not "pro abortion". Despite the fact that you want to make this a political decision.. its not. Its a medical issue.. and a physicians personal feelings about abortion either way, should be secondary to the medical needs and wishes of the patients involved.




Don't get mad just because your own words have shown that you have no concern for the woman or her child.

Yep.

Hey, remember....YOU SAID YOU WERE 99% CERTAIN. If you are not really that certain, well...and we KNOW with 100% certainty what all successful abortions result in, right? If you are incorrect, take your chances before the jury my man.

Yep. Gonna curtail the BS view that you asserted with 99% certainty earlier. Your job is to DO NO HARM. Got it? Your arent god, you re a imperfect human with a predilection towards killing that for which you dont really care.

Again, needless death and pain to babies in every instance doesnt seem to be your proper concern.

Who the **** are you trying to bull**** here, 'cause it sure isnt working with me. "Pro choice" is your way out of making a conscienceless decision so you can try to sleep better at night fooling yourself.

Not fooling me.

Make your literally damnable to hell (I am not at all religious but its just that immoral and heinous ) so called "medical" decisions and take the consequences with the political decisions the rest of society makes about the results of your decisions.

Ya see, its just lazy and underhanded to false quote someone when its so openly seen, exposed and there was no necessity to do so... speaks volumes of what you would/might do if nobody were looking. There are consequnces for purposely misquoting, btw.

Consequences...new concept for you to chew on, eh? Good luck with that. Probably will need to heavily stock up on the Jagermeister. :lamo

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Bingo.. according until you prove yourself worthy to you.. .. you are just female, not to be respected.

I have less than zero concern for what any murderer, or those who support/encourage/condone murder, might think one way or another of me.

 

[jaeger19]

It's pure hypocrisy.

It comes down to the entirety of a life and future for a woman or that of the unborn.

They choose to value the unborn more than women and want the woman to sacrifice her needs, health, future, even her life, in order to give the exact same things to the unborn.

Why does the unborn deserve it more?

Because they *want* to judge and blame the women. Hence the 'innocence' BS about the unborn...they value some vacuum of emptiness over a woman as a silly rallying cry to illicit emotion.

And here's where the hypocrisy becomes obvious. And that even they recognize the unborn isnt equal. Most accept abortion in cases of rape, incest, and danger to the mother's health. When asked, they even say, 'because it's not her fault'.

So abortion is only wrong when the woman behaved in a manner they didnt approve of, which in most cases is having sex and failed birth control...which statistically has to happen.

The kid, the pregnancy, are a 'fallen woman's' punishment. "She opened her legs, she deserves her consequences." That's another common line. The kid is punishment...and yet they accuse pro-choice people of dehumanizing the unborn :roll:

And then as well all know, the real conservatives and yup, the supposedly 'devout' Christians would all deny this small new family unit public assistance if they could :roll:

Yep.. the only caveat is that real conservatives would not deny public assistance. And that's because real conservatives care about fiscal responsibility. And public assistance for children.. like school lunch programs, and Medical treatment etc.. reduce much greater long term costs to society.. .

but yes.. its about punishing the woman. And they don't even really care about the baby. What if the baby will suffer? I have held premature children.. born with severe birth defects, knowing only pain (that's all the react to..noxious stimuli other senses are damaged), Not bigger than my hand. and they linger in pain for weeks before mercifully they pass, or the family decides to remove life support (which is kills the child as assuredly as removing lifesupport in the womb).

Now.. I would not chastise the parents of these children for their choice to continue with the pregnancy..Its definitely a personal decision.

But I also would certainly not chastise parents of these children when they opt to terminate the pregnancy rather than have their child suffer.

The irony.. is that many of these anti abortion folks will fight tooth and nail.. to allow parents of children who could be EASILY SAVED FROM DEATH.. to deny medical treatment in lieu of "faith healing". Watched a cute six year old suffer and die when a simple medical procedure would have saved his life.

 

[jaeger19]

I have less than zero concern for what any murderer, or those who support/encourage/condone murder, might think one way or another of me.

I have even less concern for ideologues that would allow people to suffer and die simply to satisfy their screwed up sense of morality.

 

[Lursa]

Yep.. the only caveat is that real conservatives would not deny public assistance. And that's because real conservatives care about fiscal responsibility. And public assistance for children.. like school lunch programs, and Medical treatment etc.. reduce much greater long term costs to society.. .

LOL that is the reasonable explanation and yet they often refuse to acknowledge it. The other thing about conservatives is their need to control people's behavior. And in many cases would rather cut off their noses to spite their faces when it comes to some taxes, assistance, entitlements, etc.

For example, I have many times posted the link (of a pretty neutral source) showing that for every $1 spent on family planning and birth control, US taxpayers save $7 down the line. But it doesnt fit their agenda, so they choose not to believe it.

Only an idiot would believe that $ spent preventing births and enabling healthier babies to be born would cost more than all those kids being born and possibly with medical conditions (fetal alc syndrome, smoking, staying on drugs, not using the free pre-natal vitamins, etc) and many of them needing 18 years worth of public assistance and medical care in some form or another. Or just the fact alone that kids born into less secure and stable homes have higher risks of not finishing school, not getting a higher education or trade, falling into juevenile delinquency/crime....all cost society even more.

It's an incredibly stupid mind that doesnt realize this. And yet, it's denied frequently.

 

[year2late]

Exactly. He seems to have no idea , nor any respect for how much a woman’s body and her physiology sacrifices to grow an unborn.

What was growing in my womb was injuring my kidneys and vascular system and also required me to have surgery. And he seems to think it is more like Tupperware.*

 

[Lursa]

but yes.. its about punishing the woman. And they don't even really care about the baby. What if the baby will suffer? I have held premature children.. born with severe birth defects, knowing only pain (that's all the react to..noxious stimuli other senses are damaged), Not bigger than my hand. and they linger in pain for weeks before mercifully they pass, or the family decides to remove life support (which is kills the child as assuredly as removing lifesupport in the womb).

Now.. I would not chastise the parents of these children for their choice to continue with the pregnancy..Its definitely a personal decision.

But I also would certainly not chastise parents of these children when they opt to terminate the pregnancy rather than have their child suffer.

The irony.. is that many of these anti abortion folks will fight tooth and nail.. to allow parents of children who could be EASILY SAVED FROM DEATH.. to deny medical treatment in lieu of "faith healing". Watched a cute six year old suffer and die when a simple medical procedure would have saved his life.

I also have seen this with incredible sadness. I grew up in church with a close friend who's family took in foster kids...and which my parents did later. Mine esp. took in those with medical conditions because my mother is a nurse. These were unadoptable kids for the most part (and yet, my parents adopted my twin sisters.)

I saw any number of kids that were severely disabled....blind and deaf and mentally disabled and physically unable to function (they had ALL of these disabilities). They would and did remain 'infants' their entire lives, and once they grew too big for their foster parents to lift and carry, they had to go into state facilities where they would be stored like cordwood the rest of their lives, no longer to even know a loving touch from a foster parent.

There is nothing humane in demanding such be born only to suffer. Nor in encouraging the women that carry them and refuse to stop doing drugs or drinking to remain pregnant.

There are more than 100,000 kids up for adoption *right now*, waiting for homes. For everyone of these kids...knowing and waiting...each time a new baby is born and given up for adoption it removes one more chance they'll find a home. It's bull**** encouraging women to have kids they dont want or cant afford...it just increases more suffering, while the unborn suffers nothing. Where are all the conservatives adopting those 100,000+ kids?

Well, my parents adopted 2....

 

[year2late]

Yeah, Tupperware with food...so? At least Tupperware does not an intent to kill.

Interesting enough, what is inside the Tupperware can cause grave harm or death to the woman.

 

[jaeger19]

Yep.

Hey, remember....YOU SAID YOU WERE 99% CERTAIN. If you are not really that certain, well...and we KNOW with 100% certainty what all successful abortions result in, right? If you are incorrect, take your chances before the jury my man.

Yep. Gonna curtail the BS view that you asserted with 99% certainty earlier. Your job is to DO NO HARM. Got it? Your arent god, you re a imperfect human with a predilection towards killing that for which you dont really care.

Yep.. It was 99% certain. The problem is you required PROOF.. of that 99% certainly.. and there is NO WAY TO PROVE AN EVENT THAT NEVER HAPPENED.

Yes.. we know exactly what happens with 100% certainty what happens with abortion. A family got to make their medical decisions free from government intervention.

Your job is to DO NO HARM. Got it?

Absolutely.. and physicians have two lives to consider. Not just one. AND they have to consider that not doing an abortion can cause harm to the baby. Real physical pain.. and needless suffering can be caused not terminating a pregnancy and having a baby with severe problems survive long enough to suffer.

Your arent god, you re a imperfect human

And yet while I am not god.. you think I should be able to provide proof of the future!!

Think about the intellectual disconnect you just displayed there.

with a predilection towards killing that for which you dont really care

Yeah.. that's absolutely not true. That's just you spewing emotional BS.

the fact is.. abortion procedures are a MINUTE..portion of the services that physicians provide. TINY Percentage of all the services that physicians that do abortions provide. All those other services are to protect the mother AND the baby.. (or the baby in the case when mothers make that choice).

For every one abortion performed by a physician.. that same physician has likely helped or saved 97 babies and mothers.

Who the **** are you trying to bull**** here, 'cause it sure isnt working with me. "Pro choice" is your way out of making a conscienceless decision so you can try to sleep better at night fooling yourself

Nope.. sorry but pro choice is allowing women and their families to choose without government intervention. That's what its about. Its pretty obvious that you are uncomfortable with your own position now that its been proven that you have no concern for the woman and her life.. (apparently she is just a food pump and a warm environment), or concern with potential suffering on the baby;s part.

You think you know whats best for other families and their children. And you want to force your view on them.

Ya see, its just lazy and underhanded to false quote someone when its so openly seen, exposed and there was no necessity to do so... speaks volumes of what you would/might do if nobody were looking. There are consequnces for purposely misquoting, btw.

Well except there was no purposely misquoting. Heck.. we have your posts to know what you said and the context within what you said.

Probably will need to heavily stock up on the Jagermeister

Jaeger was the name of one my best hunting dogs. Its a corruption of the German word for hunter.

 

[minnie616]

What was growing in my womb was injuring my kidneys and vascular system and also required me to have surgery. And he seems to think it is more like Tupperware.��*

I understand. My first pregnancy damaged my kidneys too. I became so anemic from complications from the pregnancy my GYN set up the delivery room ready for a full blood transfusion and put me under a general before delivery. When they wheeled me into the delivery room I did not know if I would live to see the baby.

We chose to continue our difficult pregnancies , but because we are pro choice ( realizing medical decisions should be left up the woman and her doctor ) Gaugingcatenate has no respect for the medical sacrifices we went through giving birth.

 

[Removable Mind]

I understand. My first pregnancy damaged my kidneys too. I became so anemic from complications from the pregnancy my GYN set up the delivery room ready for a full blood transfusion and put me under a general before delivery. When they wheeled me into the delivery room I did not know if I would live to see the baby.

We chose to continue our difficult pregnancies , but because we are pro choice ( realizing medical decisions should be left up the woman and her doctor ) Gaugingcatenate has no respect for the medical sacrifices we went through giving birth.

:applaud

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

I have even less concern for ideologues that would allow people to suffer and die simply to satisfy their screwed up sense of morality.

You talking to you?

I am over here, bro...speaking up for life, not for the murderers, oops the "medical practitoners".

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

I understand. My first pregnancy damaged my kidneys too. I became so anemic from complications from the pregnancy my GYN set up the delivery room ready for a full blood transfusion and put me under a general before delivery. When they wheeled me into the delivery room I did not know if I would live to see the baby.

We chose to continue our difficult pregnancies , but because we are pro choice ( realizing medical decisions should be left up the woman and her doctor ) Gaugingcatenate has no respect for the medical sacrifices we went through giving birth.

Make you feel better lying about me, does it minnie?

You see, I detest your disgusting support for MURDER, not at all your support for LIFE. Dont even know the difference anymore, eh?

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Interesting enough, what is inside the Tupperware can cause grave harm or death to the woman.

That may well be so... but those containers are not in possession of the capacity premeditating the harm...so are far less culpable.

 

[jaeger19]

LOL that is the reasonable explanation and yet they often refuse to acknowledge it. The other thing about conservatives is their need to control people's behavior. And in many cases would rather cut off their noses to spite their faces when it comes to some taxes, assistance, entitlements, etc.

For example, I have many times posted the link (of a pretty neutral source) showing that for every $1 spent on family planning and birth control, US taxpayers save $7 down the line. But it doesnt fit their agenda, so they choose not to believe it.

Only an idiot would believe that $ spent preventing births and enabling healthier babies to be born would cost more than all those kids being born and possibly with medical conditions (fetal alc syndrome, smoking, staying on drugs, not using the free pre-natal vitamins, etc) and many of them needing 18 years worth of public assistance and medical care in some form or another. Or just the fact alone that kids born into less secure and stable homes have higher risks of not finishing school, not getting a higher education or trade, falling into juevenile delinquency/crime....all cost society even more.

It's an incredibly stupid mind that doesnt realize this. And yet, it's denied frequently.

Well.. true conservatives (those that actually believe in smaller more efficient government, and fiscal responsibility) agree with smart and efficient programs for healthier babies and school children. Its a huge savings. And if you really believe in smaller government... what is more "big government".. than the government making your medical decisions for you?

honestly.. the "conservatives" that you describe.. aren;t really conservative.. they are right wing liberals. They want government control over those things they deem important. Control what you medical decisions you can make, and what you can ingest, who you can sleep with and how.. who you can marry etc.

They believe in liberal government.. just so that it does the things to the right.

 

[jaeger19]

You talking to you?

I am over here, bro...speaking up for life, not for the murderers, oops the "medical practitoners".

No.. you are NOT speaking up for life. Your premise would cause needless death and suffering.

 

[jaeger19]

I also have seen this with incredible sadness. I grew up in church with a close friend who's family took in foster kids...and which my parents did later. Mine esp. took in those with medical conditions because my mother is a nurse. These were unadoptable kids for the most part (and yet, my parents adopted my twin sisters.)

I saw any number of kids that were severely disabled....blind and deaf and mentally disabled and physically unable to function (they had ALL of these disabilities). They would and did remain 'infants' their entire lives, and once they grew too big for their foster parents to lift and carry, they had to go into state facilities where they would be stored like cordwood the rest of their lives, no longer to even know a loving touch from a foster parent.

There is nothing humane in demanding such be born only to suffer. Nor in encouraging the women that carry them and refuse to stop doing drugs or drinking to remain pregnant.

There are more than 100,000 kids up for adoption *right now*, waiting for homes. For everyone of these kids...knowing and waiting...each time a new baby is born and given up for adoption it removes one more chance they'll find a home. It's bull**** encouraging women to have kids they dont want or cant afford...it just increases more suffering, while the unborn suffers nothing. Where are all the conservatives adopting those 100,000+ kids?

Well, my parents adopted 2....

Yep it can be pretty bad. I once had a patient that had been born premature, addicted to heroin, HIV positive (luckily it was just the mothers antibiodies) and fetal alcohol syndrome. .. we followed him for years in foster care where he did wonderfully (his foster parents were awesome.. but he had needs.. he had a PEG tube, and other developmental disabilities but very high functioning.).

The foster parents basically raised him as a baby until he was 6. They wanted to adopt but mother hadn;t given up parental rights. When she got out of prison. she wanted him and so he went to her. 5 months later, he was found locked in the bathroom of an abandomed apartment, Burns, no food, luckily he was smart enough to drink out of the toilet (water had been turned off) to survive.

Now.. he was back in our hospital system and I was called in to give my advice on his discharge plan. The mother had given up her parental rights in a plea deal. So I said , why not let the foster parents (the ones that raised him and wanted to adopt him) adopt him.

The social worker said they were not appropriate to adopt because they were not able to meet his "cultural needs". It was because the child was black and the foster parents white.

Well, I had some things to say about that.. considering that this was the only parents that this kid had every known.. and it seemed more important to do right by this poor abused child, than use him as some political pawn.

Unfortunately.. I lost and the kid ended up in the state facility.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Yep.. It was 99% certain. The problem is you required PROOF.. of that 99% certainly.. and there is NO WAY TO PROVE AN EVENT THAT NEVER HAPPENED.

Yes.. we know exactly what happens with 100% certainty what happens with abortion. A family got to make their medical decisions free from government intervention.



Absolutely.. and physicians have two lives to consider. Not just one. AND they have to consider that not doing an abortion can cause harm to the baby. Real physical pain.. and needless suffering can be caused not terminating a pregnancy and having a baby with severe problems survive long enough to suffer.



And yet while I am not god.. you think I should be able to provide proof of the future!!

Think about the intellectual disconnect you just displayed there.



Yeah.. that's absolutely not true. That's just you spewing emotional BS.

the fact is.. abortion procedures are a MINUTE..portion of the services that physicians provide. TINY Percentage of all the services that physicians that do abortions provide. All those other services are to protect the mother AND the baby.. (or the baby in the case when mothers make that choice).

For every one abortion performed by a physician.. that same physician has likely helped or saved 97 babies and mothers.



Nope.. sorry but pro choice is allowing women and their families to choose without government intervention. That's what its about. Its pretty obvious that you are uncomfortable with your own position now that its been proven that you have no concern for the woman and her life.. (apparently she is just a food pump and a warm environment), or concern with potential suffering on the baby;s part.

You think you know whats best for other families and their children. And you want to force your view on them.



Well except there was no purposely misquoting. Heck.. we have your posts to know what you said and the context within what you said.



Jaeger was the name of one my best hunting dogs. Its a corruption of the German word for hunter.

Play judge, jury and executioner and take your chances then, brother.

Sorry, but practicing medicine doesnt give you 007 status, you dont get a licence to kill upon graduating medical school. Murder is murder, whether you or your coconspirators like it or not. You wouldnt be wrestling with your conscience about my bullseye hits on your bulls*** arguments if you knew you were right.

I am not here to ease your pain... not when it comes to such apathy about the voiceless.

If you are confident there is no other option... do what you feel is right. Just know there are others out here watching, will catch and punish those who take even a minor shortcut.

If you screw up, unlike the voiceless unborn, you will have a voice, an attorney representing your adult interests. As well, your own matured, thinking, functioning brain able to also advocate for yourself. Plus a judge and jury.

Even though you would willingly steal that right from others.

No, I am not asking you to provide proof of the future. However, you do need take responsibilities for any harm you do, after the fact. That is called JUSTICE.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? You had absolutely no problem doing worse to me, even putting it in quotes as if I had actually said it. See how it feels to have your own argument thus mischaracterized? Maybe teach you a lesson, maybe not.

You simply are not a saint for 97 jobs well done then murdering #98. Thats not how saintdom nor the justice system works.

So, I dont care about the mothers life because I care for the babies life? That does not compute. Question: what does one call a befuddled doctor when that doctor is lying? Logical simple answer: a liar.

I am not forcing anything on anybody. Make your damn choices. Government has an obligation to give consequences for wrongs done. Called rule of law. No man, no woman, is above the law. Without sufficient laws you have anarchy.

Exactly, we can all of us look back and see I never made that statement. You made it up, put it in quotes as if I had said it. If I said that something you are allowed to do that, not just make believe I did it... never have the right to put as quotes words i did not say.

I am familiar with the German word, derivatives and its origins. Grew up studying WW1 Aero History, particularly the Germans. Their fighter squadrons were known as jagdstaffels, Jastas for short... hunting squadrons.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

No.. you are NOT speaking up for life. Your premise would cause needless death and suffering.

I see how many lives your side takes without a blink of the eye... so dont come whining to me about my heartlessness. What a laugh.