Riddle Me This, Republicans

[Rogue Valley]

He publicly asked Ukraine and China to investigate the Bidens- why again didn't he go through the proper channels?

He publicly asked Ukraine and China to investigate the Bidens- why again didn't he go through the proper channels?

Short answer - The FBI wouldn't play along with the Trump/Giuliani extortion scheme. And they already know the Crowdstrike server hubub is conspiracy theory.

None of the ~12 diplomats/administration people that have testified before the House stated that Joe Biden did anything wrong in seeking the dismissal of Ukraine Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin.

That dismissal was a US government policy demand, a Ukrainian society demand, a EU policy demand, and a IMF loan demand. Shokin was not just corrupt, but blatantly-in-your-face corrupt.

As far as Hunter Biden, the last I checked there is no US law against a US citizen accepting foreign employment with the best salary remuneration he could negotiate.

Granted, it's not good optics, but hardly criminal. Americans all over the world do the exact same thing.

 

[Hypothetical]

If Trump cared so much about Corruption, and sees Ukraine as corrupt:

1. Why did he not use our own government and our own LE which Trump has BROAD authority over to investigate Biden?

2. Why rely on a universally "corrupt" government, like Ukraine, to investigate US citizens?

Why is it acceptable that Trump's hypocrisy on this issue is normalized? You don't get to say we're not giving you aid because we're concerned you're corrupt, but, we want you to investigate a US Citizen.

This doesn't square. The defense makes no sense.

1. he may be, right now as part of the other ongoing investigation by the DOJ.
2. mainly because Ukraine is where it happened so if you want information about a crime that happened there , it could be easier to work directly with Ukraine.

 

[Hypothetical]

Short answer - The FBI wouldn't play along with the Trump/Giuliani extortion scheme. And they already know the Crowdstrike server hubub is conspiracy theory.

None of the ~12 diplomats/administration people that have testified before the House stated that Joe Biden did anything wrong in seeking the dismissal of Ukraine Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin.

That dismissal was a US government policy demand, a Ukrainian society demand, a EU policy demand, and a IMF loan demand. Shokin was not just corrupt, but blatantly-in-your-face corrupt.

As far as Hunter Biden, the last I checked there is no US law against a US citizen accepting foreign employment with the best salary remuneration he could negotiate.

Granted, it's not good optics, but hardly criminal. Americans all over the world do the exact same thing.

no its not criminal yet, but its very suspicious.

 

[less right]

sure seems like he was laundering money for political favors for dear old dad, doesn't it?

What political favors were done and what money did Biden 'launder'?

 

[zimmer]

He publicly asked Ukraine and China to investigate the Bidens- why again didn't he go through the proper channels?

He did.

He is the President and however he sees fit... is the “proper” channel.

You see, he has total authority over how Foreign Policy is executed.

He was elected because we knew he wouldn’t follow the usual, failed bull****. We voted for him because he we wanted him to shake things up. And looking at the Laughable Left... he’s succeeded.

 

[Mycroft]

Answer, enumerated, please.

Not one of you have done so.

I wonder why.

You don't make sense. What do you want answered?

 

[zimmer]

We need information from Ukraine in any investigation into Biden's corrupt actions. That's what Trump was asking Zelenskiy for.

It’s simple... but Leftists have been so fiercely brain ****ed by their Goebbels Media since January 2017... they can’t think clearly.

They’re like flies honing in on the light... and every time they get close... they get burned badly.

You’d think they’d be suspect of the Goebbels Media and their Partei after getting fried time after time... but noooo... they keep honing in on the impeachment light.

If it wasn’t so sick, sad and serious... it’d be ****ing fall-down hilarious.

 

[zimmer]

Interesting comparison.

Most people now believe that the glove was a distraction. OJ was guilty despite the glove.

Trump is in the same boat now. Depending on his jury to nullify the facts.

What facts need nullifying? Please list a few.

Trump released the transcript... blowing the Weasel-Leaker’s false claims out of the water... likely to the terrible shock of Soviet Schiff and Comrade Pelosi.

It’s why Soviet Schiff doesn’t want the Whistle-Leaker to testify.

 

[apdst]

Please do the following:

Reply to the points as enumerated.

Please provide proof that your statement that the FBI and CIA can't be trusted to investigate appropriately.

You would whine no matter how he did it.

 

[Obscurity]

You don't make sense. What do you want answered?

My OP and all questions therein. Until you can adequately answer those questions, you haven't got the ghost of a point with the defense of POTUS.

 

[Obscurity]

You would whine no matter how he did it.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Care to answer the original questions?

 

[Pound4abrown]

None of the ~12 diplomats/administration people that have testified before the House stated that Joe Biden did anything wrong in seeking the dismissal of Ukraine Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin.

That dismissal was a US government policy demand, a Ukrainian society demand, a EU policy demand, and a IMF loan demand. Shokin was not just corrupt, but blatantly-in-your-face corrupt.

As far as Hunter Biden, the last I checked there is no US law against a US citizen accepting foreign employment with the best salary remuneration he could negotiate.

Granted, it's not good optics, but hardly criminal. Americans all over the world do the exact same thing.

Change world to White House and you'd still be correct.

 

[Pound4abrown]

no one cares what the schift vetted testifiers failed to mention, there is enough evidence on the face of it that it deserves investigating.

Think so?
Wonder if Trump will begrudgingly give the hearings their props when he sees the massive ratings?

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Yes, the Ukrainian government is corrupt, but that doesn't mean any evidence of wrongdoing they uncovered is automatically discarded. It would have to bare extra scrutiny is all.

Presidents ask other governments for help all the time with all kinds of things.

Trump made a mistake by asking the Ukrainians for help, but was it a crime? Nope.

It doesn't matter if there was any criminal activity by anyone. The important thing is that there must be a public announcement that they are INVESTIGATING. That is the key. This is a standard GOP strategy. Regardless of the merits, it is important that the democrat is being investigated. Always be investigating the 'corrupt' democrat. Always.

If Biden doesn't get the nomination, whoever does will also be 'investigated'.

 

[Carleen]

I've been watching the cable news this morning and, based on what I'm seeing, the most compelling thing the Democrats came up with is testimony from a guy who was told by another guy that he overheard a phone conversation between Trump and Sondland wherein Trump mentioned Biden.

What we saw yesterday was two career diplomats who seemed to be upset that their opinions with regard to foreign policy weren't given priority over the president's opinions regarding foreign policy. If crap like that is what was going on and if testimony is going to be based primarily on policy disagreement then the WH is right to make it as hard as possible for Democrats to get their narrative out. It's a political game at that point, not a criminal one.

That is not an answer to my question. Why were those in the room told not to testify is there is nothing wrong with the call?

 

[Lutherf]

sure seems like he was laundering money for political favors for dear old dad, doesn't it?

We’d need more evidence before heading down that path but with regard to Burisma it would be worth looking into the Shokin deal. There are stories going both ways on that, as is kind of common when dealing with corrupt practices.

 

[Lutherf]

So saying his name on the call was what? Tourette's? If he didn't ask anyone to investigate Biden, why did he ask them to investigate Biden?

There is a difference between investigating Biden himself and investigating a situation Biden was involved with. Nobody, so far, has come close to reporting a direct link to 2020 campaigning. All that talk has been nothing but conjecture.

 

[less right]

What facts need nullifying? Please list a few.

Trump released the transcript... blowing the Weasel-Leaker’s false claims out of the water... likely to the terrible shock of Soviet Schiff and Comrade Pelosi.

It’s why Soviet Schiff doesn’t want the Whistle-Leaker to testify.

Trump didn't release a transcript, he released an abridged version. We don't know what the full transcript says.

Complaints about lack of first-hand witnesses is because the President is obstructing first-hand witness testimony with some made-up claim of "absolute immunity". (Good luck finding that law.)

Trump didn't ask for investigations into corruptions generally, he asked for investigations specifically about Biden, his son, and the DNC conspiracy theories. Trump can't even name the crime he thinks they committed. I doubt you can either. At least no crime for which there is a shred of evidence beyond the optics.

 

[americanwoman]

He did.

He is the President and however he sees fit... is the “proper” channel.

You see, he has total authority over how Foreign Policy is executed.

He was elected because we knew he wouldn’t follow the usual, failed bull****. We voted for him because he we wanted him to shake things up. And looking at the Laughable Left... he’s succeeded.

"We" didn't vote for him. I sure as heck didn't and I am not quite convinced you are an American citizen.

 

[OscarLevant]

Probably because he wasn't asking anyone to investigate Biden. As was testified to yesterday by witnesses hand picked by the Democrats, Trump was asking that corruption related to the 2016 campaign be investigated. The Biden stuff was more about investigating a potentially problematic relationship between Burisma (with Hunter Biden on the board) and Joe Biden who was the point man for Ukraine policy. The hand picked witnesses ALSO acknowledged the potentially problematic nature of that setup.

Yes, he was asking Ukraine to investigate Biden, he even said so on national TV., and the evidence supporting that contention is overwhelming at this point, and that fact is not even being debated.
What is being objected to by the repubs is process, not substance.

No one is saying the Hunter Biden affair shouldn't be scrutinized, but it's not appropriate to go off into that tangent during this impeachment hearing.


Sen. Graham is free, as head of the judiciary committed, to investigate Biden all he wants, and so is the AG, and are they doing this?



As for 'hand picked witnesses' a number of the witnesses on the repub list are being allowed to testify, and the ones that are not have nothing to contribute to the hearing, and only serve to embolden repubs effort to distract the hearings and confuse the public, which is their aim. See, it's all a ruse and a specious argument. not to mention that Trump directed many witnesses, direct participants, to defy congressional subpoenas. Since Graham et al, are applying the laws of jurisprudence to this hearing, he is not whining about Trump's defying subpoenas, which, if this were a court of law, people would be going to jail

 

[eman623]

If Trump cared so much about Corruption, and sees Ukraine as corrupt:

1. Why did he not use our own government and our own LE which Trump has BROAD authority over to investigate Biden?

2. Why rely on a universally "corrupt" government, like Ukraine, to investigate US citizens?

Why is it acceptable that Trump's hypocrisy on this issue is normalized? You don't get to say we're not giving you aid because we're concerned you're corrupt, but, we want you to investigate a US Citizen.

This doesn't square. The defense makes no sense.

1. If Trump had directed the Justice Dept to open an investigation of a major Dem candidate for president, would that still have not been seen as a politically motivated attempt to dig up dirt on a potential election opponent? Given that, why not ask the Ukraine to investigate since that's where the alleged corruption occurred. Or does running for president give you a "get out of all investigations free" card?

2. You've got a point there. But if they are that corrupt, why are we giving them any aid at all? Will any of it actually reach the people fighting the Russians. And if we're going to trust them enough to give them $400M, then maybe we can also trust them enough to take a closer look at Biden - especially since Biden dealt with the previous corrupt government, not this corrupt government.

3. Speaking of hypocrisy, why are Dems so worked up over Trump holding up "vital" aid to the Ukrainians when the Obama administration DENIED lethal military aid to the Ukraine because they were worried about upsetting the Russians? One is tempted to think they don't really care about the aid as much as using it as an excuse to finally get Trump.

 

[Credence]

Probably because he wasn't asking anyone to investigate Biden. As was testified to yesterday by witnesses hand picked by the Democrats, Trump was asking that corruption related to the 2016 campaign be investigated. The Biden stuff was more about investigating a potentially problematic relationship between Burisma (with Hunter Biden on the board) and Joe Biden who was the point man for Ukraine policy. The hand picked witnesses ALSO acknowledged the potentially problematic nature of that setup.

He actually used Bidens NAME in the phone call. Read the transcript LOL

 

[Lutherf]

That is not an answer to my question. Why were those in the room told not to testify is there is nothing wrong with the call?

What people in what room? What are you even talking about?

 

[Pound4abrown]

There is a difference between investigating Biden himself and investigating a situation Biden was involved with. Nobody, so far, has come close to reporting a direct link to 2020 campaigning. All that talk has been nothing but conjecture.

So if it is all conjecture, how is it you know, what you think you know?
Cuts both ways.
And why did he ask the president of the Ukraine to publicly state he was going to investigate the Biden's if he wasn't asking him to, you know, investigate the Biden's.

 

[Pound4abrown]

Yes, he was asking Ukraine to investigate Biden, he even said so on national TV., and the evidence supporting that contention is overwhelming at this point, and that fact is not even being debated.
What is being objected to by the repubs is process, not substance.

No one is saying the Hunter Biden affair shouldn't be scrutinized, but it's not appropriate to go off into that tangent during this impeachment hearing.


Sen. Graham is free, as head of the judiciary committed, to investigate Biden all he wants, and so is the AG, and are they doing this?



As for 'hand picked witnesses' a number of the witnesses on the repub list are being allowed to testify, and the ones that are not have nothing to contribute to the hearing, and only serve to embolden repubs effort to distract the hearings and confuse the public, which is their aim. See, it's all a ruse and a specious argument. not to mention that Trump directed many witnesses, direct participants, to defy congressional subpoenas. Since Graham et al, are applying the laws of jurisprudence to this hearing, he is not whining about Trump's defying subpoenas, which, if this were a court of law, people would be going to jail

Because it wasn't really about an actual investigation? But the appearance of one so that Trump could fill his rally's from coast to coast about how the Biden's are so dirty that even Ukraine is looking into them.