Reparations for Slavery

[TurtleDude]

Had the slave trade not existed, Africans would be much better off as well.

But your point is irrelevant, because we are talking about the harm caused to slaves and allowed under federal U.S. government policy. That wrong exists and must be remedied regardless of how people across the world are faring.

Slave trade was an intrinsic part of African societies before whites ever showed up

 

[Lakryte]

Slave trade was an intrinsic part of African societies before whites ever showed up

Whites made it far worse. Also, please read up on the European colonization of Africa.

But again, your point is irrelevant, because we are talking about the harm caused to slaves and allowed under federal U.S. government policy. That wrong exists and must be remedied regardless of conditions in Africa.

 

[TurtleDude]

Whites made it far worse. Also, please read up on the European colonization of Africa.

But again, your point is irrelevant, because we are talking about the harm caused to slaves and allowed under federal U.S. government policy. That wrong exists and must be remedied regardless of conditions in Africa.

Do you realize that Shaka's predations displaced over a quarter of the sub-Saharan indigenous population in Africa?

Do you think someone OWES YOU? I certainly owe no one a dime concerning the slave trade.

 

[Lakryte]

Do you realize that Shaka's predations displaced over a quarter of the sub-Saharan indigenous population in Africa?

Do you think someone OWES YOU? I certainly owe no one a dime concerning the slave trade.

So you choose to pretend European colonization of Africa has nothing to do with the state of Africa today. Got it.

But again, your point is irrelevant, because we are talking about the harm caused to slaves and allowed under federal U.S. government policy. That wrong exists and must be remedied regardless of conditions in Africa.

 

[TurtleDude]

So you choose to pretend European colonization of Africa has nothing to do with the state of Africa today. Got it.

But again, your point is irrelevant, because we are talking about the harm caused to slaves and allowed under federal U.S. government policy. That wrong exists and must be remedied regardless of conditions in Africa.

Africa is not the issue. What is the issue is that there is no one alive today, in the USA, who has any guilt whatsoever for the current conditions of blacks-some of whom are multimillionaires or powerful political operators. The federal government righted that wrong with a war that cost thousands upon thousands of federal troops their lives and billions of dollars in welfare payments.

I have no duty to have even a penny of mine given for reparations.

 

[Lakryte]

Africa is not the issue. What is the issue is that there is no one alive today, in the USA, who has any guilt whatsoever for the current conditions of blacks-some of whom are multimillionaires or powerful political operators. The federal government righted that wrong with a war that cost thousands upon thousands of federal troops their lives and billions of dollars in welfare payments.

I have no duty to have even a penny of mine given for reparations.

I've already addressed those arguments. I'm not going to keep running in circles with you.

 

[BahamaBob]

So you choose to pretend European colonization of Africa has nothing to do with the state of Africa today. Got it.

But again, your point is irrelevant, because we are talking about the harm caused to slaves and allowed under federal U.S. government policy. That wrong exists and must be remedied regardless of conditions in Africa.

I see you have a problem with staying on topic. What does the American Government have to do with European colonization of Africa? The European colonization of Africa occurred long after slavery in the US ended.

 

[TurtleDude]

Neither you nor I are a guilty party. But the U.S. federal government is.

How so, that was a different administration, elected by voters long dead and it was remedied by a war that cost us several hundred thousand non-slaveowners lives. Maybe all the whites,Asians, etc who have been the victims of black crime have a far more valid claim?

 

[Lakryte]

I see you have a problem with staying on topic. What does the American Government have to do with European colonization of Africa? The European colonization of Africa occurred long after slavery in the US ended.

Other posters brought up conditions in Africa to try and relieve the U.S. government of responsibility. My whole point was that conditions in Africa are irrelevant to the debt the U.S. government owes. If you are going to butt into conversations between other posters, do try and read the conversation first.

 

[TurtleDude]

Other posters brought up conditions in Africa to try and relieve the U.S. government of responsibility. My whole point was that conditions in Africa are irrelevant to the debt the U.S. government owes. If you are going to butt into conversations between other posters, do try and read the conversation first.

Why should any of us taxpayers pay even a dime?

 

[OldFatGuy]

Neither you nor I are a guilty party. But the U.S. federal government is.

The US Government has no debt for slavery. Your spurious arguments lack any sense of obligation. It is all about your self imposed guilt.

 

[BahamaBob]

Other posters brought up conditions in Africa to try and relieve the U.S. government of responsibility. My whole point was that conditions in Africa are irrelevant to the debt the U.S. government owes. If you are going to butt into conversations between other posters, do try and read the conversation first.

Dude, get a clue. If you post irrelevant, stupid and asinine statements someone is going to call you on them. The other poster was pointing out that Blacks in America have a much higher standard of living that those in Africa. That is relevant. If they were not in America, they would be part of that Shi*hole. Your trying to blame a few thousand European settlers for the mess that Africa is confirms you are not capable of cognitive thinking.

 

[Ouroboros]

It introduced a lot of welfare programs that created a disincentive for homes with two parents... at it's inception 75% of kids born in black families had two parents and today it is around 28%. Programs discourage the incentive of getting an education or a good job, because why when you can just get some hand-outs? That kind of stuff... It is interesting to read about it. LBJ was a huge racist...

Lyndon Johnson was a civil rights hero. But also a racist. | MSNBC

The essay makes only a circumstantial connection between LBJ's racism-- most of which is attested through anecdotes, which aren't always reliable-- and the belief of some racists that black people can't help themselves. I don't think the connection holds up, given that the very idea of a "dole" for the underprivileged has been around since Marx. I think it's important to keep in mind that LBJ's endgame was always to shore up Democrats, and though he was anything but a Marxist, I find it likely that he was seeking to strengthen his party with liberal platforms. LBJ famously said that he'd lost the South by facilitating the CRA, but he may have gained a lot of progressives in exchange. That seems much likely to me than the idea that he had some convoluted, sinister plan to undermine the black family.

 

[Ouroboros]

Not at all... it does not apply to all black people... that is the problem that you and others don't get. Black culture does not mean black people...

I would tend to agree, though it's always difficult to pin down when a given black person has been poisoned by the negative side of black culture, and when he's just a nasty customer because of his character. Louis Farrakhan would be my example of the first, OJ would be the second.

 

[Ouroboros]

What do I look like, a Troll Kindergarten teacher? No gold star.

No, just a plain troll.:lamo

 

[Ouroboros]

Black culture that constitutes hip hop, gangs, single mothers, many subsets, the is a failure. Nothing racist about recognizing that.

Now I'm no fan of hip hop or rap, but even though I don't like the negativity in many songs, not least the notorious "Cop Killer," it's at least possible that some artists are able to produce positive forms of art as well.

 

[ecofarm]

No, just a plain troll.:lamo

Good one.

:thumbs:

 

[Ouroboros]

Systems of servitude and slavery were common in parts of Africa, as they were in much of the ancient world. Who gets paid first?

Also, how about the Africans who sold captives from rival tribes? Do they pay anything?

 

[Ouroboros]

Irrelevant. That something is legal does not make it morally right. Black people are not property, they are human beings.


It is a fact that African Americans are worse off than they would have been absent slavery. You can ignore facts, but that doesn't make them beliefs.



Irrelevant. You conflate legality with morality.


Slavery is largely to blame for the racial disparity in wealth that exists today - that is a fact. And the conditions in Africa also largely exist because of the slave trade and European colonialism. Africa also has strong claims to reparations from European powers which basically destroyed the continent.

Let's suppose some alien visitor had imposed a "non-interference" policy that kept the sub-Saharan Africans inviolate from the predations of both North African Muslims, Europeans, or any other empire-builder.

What would be the source of the African wealth that would have prospered without interactions with outside cultures?

Remember, if they're kept safe from predation, then they also can't be exposed to the innovations of other cultures.

So how do they amass real wealth, aside from what was deemed "wealth" at the tribal level-- which, in some cultures like Dahomey, included having lots of slaves.

 

[Ouroboros]

If you’re going to come in here and talk about the slave trade then at least do it honestly. It was an African institution which predated European entry by nearly 1,000 years. And it continued to exist until the Ottomon Empire and European colonial governments put the kabosh on it. So we’ll be taking those reparations from Africa for the time and expense involved in stopping them from spearing each other on the plains to sell captive peoples in their slave markets.

Also, had there been no slave trade to the Americas, that wouldn't necessarily have translated to freedom for the ancestors of current African-Americans. In all likelihood, they would've been sold in various Eastern ports instead.

 

[jaeger19]

Black culture that constitutes hip hop, gangs, single mothers, many subsets, the is a failure. Nothing racist about recognizing that.

Bingo.. how is hip hop.. gangs, single mothers a "black culture"..

When white people embrace hip hop.. have gangs.. single mothers. "many subsets:.

We can start with this:

“Fact of the matter is we have a gang problem in Mississippi, we have a gang problem in Hinds County, we have a gang problem in Jackson. But it’s not just Jackson. We have a gang problem in pretty much every municipality in the state,” said MBN Director John Dowdy.
'Living nightmare:' Hunted by alleged gang killers
Of all the validated gang members in the state, Mississippi Association of Gang Investigators says 53 percent are white, while the rest are black, Latino and other minorities.

Gangs gain traction in Miss. cities, experts say

 

[Napoleon]

Also, had there been no slave trade to the Americas, that wouldn't necessarily have translated to freedom for the ancestors of current African-Americans. In all likelihood, they would've been sold in various Eastern ports instead.

It’s just insanity. Watched a video awhile back of some poor black man being sold for $400 at a slave market in Libya last year. But these guys want to talk about about cutting checks for American deadbeats because somebody was a slave 200 years ago.

 

[ecofarm]

Bingo.. how is hip hop.. gangs, single mothers a "black culture"..

When white people embrace hip hop.. have gangs.. single mothers. "many subsets:.

We can start with this:



Gangs gain traction in Miss. cities, experts say

Well, some people claim it's not poverty driving those problems, it's blackness.

 

[TheParser]

i

There will not be a mass dispensing of "cash money" to anyone.... the solutions for resolve are far different than giving people a bag of money...

Thank you very much for the link.

I think that the proposals are very well-meaning.

I frankly feel that -- even if they were implemented -- they would not achieve their goals.




Have a nice day!

 

[RealityNow]

i

Thank you very much for the link.

I think that the proposals are very well-meaning.

I frankly feel that -- even if they were implemented -- they would not achieve their goals.




Have a nice day!

Technically and Pratically they will be a great achievement.... as to the "hearts and minds" of the bigots who refuse to accept the system that groomed the white nationalist ignorance within their life format... is a different matter.

This fairly well describes what we are dealing with when dealing with such types.
In the ingrained mentalities of such types...as sad for life but honest of fact.. this type will simply have to die out! they are doing so every day. In 20 yrs or so many who were born the pre-1964 Civil Rights Act will have died out or be in geriatric care, and their first generation of offspring's will be quite well aged and many made ineffective to promote such. Then there is left the generation of their off springs.. whom may well be brought to the realization that they have been and are the creators of their own decrepit mental conditions and circular impoverishment, by their lust and obsession with worshiping the wealthy. Already today, in the systems of Theological institutions, people are either stepping away or fast learning how it was contorted to back and fall in line with the bias and bigotry of racist ideology.
We see those even young at the generally Right Wing Universities, trying desperate to cling to the "white nationalist ideals of white man dominance, but the women among them is the first wave that will be forced to awaken to the system of gender repressions they have been groomed to accept, but the condition in society will force them to awaken of they will endear themselves into being bought into accepting the demise of their self constitutional right as an individual to be respected as an individual.

People don't believe the truths life has presented, God has been making the changes for centuries and each decade the change speeds up, because the people become more aware, and more learned of truths they once denied. Slavery was broken down, and so too was segregation, women rights have take a stand and steps in progressions that can't be turned back into them submitting themselves as being possession, bought off by money, and having their rent paid, while having to accept any abuse that comes with the sales price.

We see the systems of perversions that have encircled some religions where sex abuse became standard habit and covered by the executive leadership of such organizations, and people now are aware. They are more aware of the perversions done to interpretation of the Bible, and now see to make their own understanding, by learning of the principles of the Bibles words for themselves.

All the generations of the wealthy fleecing the people of ever element of monetary opportunity, has seen the same wealthy make choices that has created $22 Trillion in debt and rising, we've seen the stock market turned into a gambling casino... and with the damage to the Justice systems, there is little of institution left to back the American Currency. This is the result of how the wealth derived from human abuse has been squandered and left a nation, with debt that exceeds it GDP...
If the wealthy had been among the people, through fair pay wages, and equality in opportunity, America would never have sold its historical industries, but because greed has no respect for legacy, "anything and everything" has been put up "For Sale"... and now we have an administration that has sold out the Dignity that a Nation once claimed, and made deals to sell out the Integrity, while damaging the institution of the governance that helped built America.

Right Wing Idiocy and its vile of race and ethnicity biased and bigoted incivility... is born of White Nationalist Ignorance of White Male Dominance and the Ignorance it supports and promotes; which has damaged this nation "every time" they have been in office, whether it is the seat of the Presidency, and/or the control of the Senate and the House.

Right Wing and Republican with their madness of trying to Conserve the Past and Remake the Ignorance of the past, continue to create an environment that demonstrates the Right Wing White Nationalist inability to live in commonest within a Civil and Civic Society with others.