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Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally

Lord of Planar said:
As other socialistic nations.

Yep.

Your dream is for us to become socialists, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Republicans politicians and corporations are also seeing the great benefits of renewable power.

Why Republican Leaders Love Renewable Energy

Renewable corporate power deals soar tenfold in Europe: study | Recharge

That at the same time even federal agencies under Donald Trump acknowledge the devastating effects of climate change so investing in renewables should be a bipartisan issue.

Fourth National Climate Assessment

Also if you truly are concerned over low income families ability to pay for necessities then you should also support universal health care and free higher education.
 
Last edited:
Internal combustion vehicle makers are cutting their own throats by making them so expensive to buy which will allow the EV makers a spot in the market.
 
“Green” Wood-Burning Making Munich Germany’s Air Dirtier Than NSW – Even As Bush Fires Rage!

By P Gosselin on 7. January 2020

A number of countries have even made wood-burning a part of their drive to cut down on CO2 emissions. For example cities like Munich, Germany are seeing a rise in wood burning as a source of heat.
Moreover, many German cities are moving to ban diesel engine cars because of the CO2 they produce and, more importantly, all the terrible fine particles they emit.
German cities choking on “green” wood smoke
Yet, ironically, as cities move to “clean” up their act and protect the climate, the opposite is in fact becoming the result. German cities are increasingly choking on fine particles emitted by dirty wood-burning – and activists are turning a blind eye to the growing problem.
In the case of Munich, Swiss meteorologist Jörg Kachelmann recently pointed out that evening time air quality in the Bavarian capital becomes worse than the average air quality of much of New South Wales, Australia even as bush fires rage.
Kachelmann tweeted:
All air measurement stations in the fire-affected New South Wales currently have better air quality than the wood-fired Munich.
https://dpie.nsw.gov.au/air-quality/air-quality-concentration-data-updated-hourly…
Munich (as always: clean in the daytime, filthy evenings/nights):

https://kachelmannwetter.com/de/luftqualitaet/bayern/pm10-feinstaub/20200106-1900z.html#obs-detail-DEBY115…
No journalist is interested.”
​
What follows is the chart for Munich, yesterday evening (January 6), up to 8 pm for fine particles:

Yesterday evening (Munich – time) most stations in NSW showed an average cleaner air than Munich did. Evenings many of Munich’s citizens like to settled down and light cozy fires to sit by – and feel good about their contribution to CO2 cutbacks.
The chart above shows how Munich’s air had become laden with 70 micro grams of fine particles by 7 p.m. – worse than the average air quality in NSW!
New South Wales air quality, Tuesday, January 7, 2020:
NSW-Air-quality.png

 
Jack Hays said:
A number of countries have even made wood-burning a part of their drive to cut down on CO2 emissions.
Click to expand...
Maybe that's what Australia should do with the wood they clear out for the firebreaks
that they need. A hundred meter swath around every farm and habitation would
probably produce (to use a term that's in vogue today) a sustainable wood supply for
power stations around the country.
 
Steve Case said:
Maybe that's what Australia should do with the wood they clear out for the firebreaks
that they need. A hundred meter swath around every farm and habitation would
probably produce (to use a term that's in vogue today) a sustainable wood supply for
power stations around the country.
Click to expand...

The problem in Australia is that you need government approval to chop down a tree, even if its in your own property. Nuts.
 
Steve Case said:
Maybe that's what Australia should do with the wood they clear out for the firebreaks
that they need. A hundred meter swath around every farm and habitation would
probably produce (to use a term that's in vogue today) a sustainable wood supply for
power stations around the country.
Click to expand...

Controlled burning is most certainly better than uncontrolled burning.
 
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[h=1]Energy Dominance: US Set Record for Energy Consumption in 2018![/h][FONT=&quot]Guest MAGA! by David Middleton Every now and then, Real Clear Energy carries a story relevant to energy… DECEMBER 23, 2019In 2018, the United States consumed more energy than ever before Primary energy consumption in the United States reached a record high of 101.3 quadrillion British thermal units (Btu) in 2018, up 4% from 2017…
Continue reading →
[/FONT]
 
Jack Hays said:
“Green” Wood-Burning Making Munich Germany’s Air Dirtier Than NSW – Even As Bush Fires Rage!

By P Gosselin on 7. January 2020

A number of countries have even made wood-burning a part of their drive to cut down on CO2 emissions. For example cities like Munich, Germany are seeing a rise in wood burning as a source of heat.
Moreover, many German cities are moving to ban diesel engine cars because of the CO2 they produce and, more importantly, all the terrible fine particles they emit.
German cities choking on “green” wood smoke
Yet, ironically, as cities move to “clean” up their act and protect the climate, the opposite is in fact becoming the result. German cities are increasingly choking on fine particles emitted by dirty wood-burning – and activists are turning a blind eye to the growing problem.
In the case of Munich, Swiss meteorologist Jörg Kachelmann recently pointed out that evening time air quality in the Bavarian capital becomes worse than the average air quality of much of New South Wales, Australia even as bush fires rage.
Kachelmann tweeted:
All air measurement stations in the fire-affected New South Wales currently have better air quality than the wood-fired Munich.
https://dpie.nsw.gov.au/air-quality/air-quality-concentration-data-updated-hourly…
Munich (as always: clean in the daytime, filthy evenings/nights):

https://kachelmannwetter.com/de/luftqualitaet/bayern/pm10-feinstaub/20200106-1900z.html#obs-detail-DEBY115…
No journalist is interested.”
​
What follows is the chart for Munich, yesterday evening (January 6), up to 8 pm for fine particles:

Yesterday evening (Munich – time) most stations in NSW showed an average cleaner air than Munich did. Evenings many of Munich’s citizens like to settled down and light cozy fires to sit by – and feel good about their contribution to CO2 cutbacks.
The chart above shows how Munich’s air had become laden with 70 micro grams of fine particles by 7 p.m. – worse than the average air quality in NSW!
New South Wales air quality, Tuesday, January 7, 2020:
NSW-Air-quality.png

Click to expand...

Poland that is still heavily dependent on coal have 33 of its 50 EU's cities with most polluted air.

https://www-nytimes-com.cdn.ampproj...2018/04/22/world/europe/poland-pollution.html

While Munich have relative low air pollution.

https://www.numbeo.com/pollution/in/Munich

Also you need to make a difference between wood burning stoves and much cleaner and efficient district heating plants. There things can be even better by using excess heat from industries and burn unused parts of trees and residual products from sawmill.

https://www.energimyndigheten.se/en/sustainability/households/heating-your-home/district-heating/
 
Bergslagstroll said:
Poland that is still heavily dependent on coal have 33 of its 50 EU's cities with most polluted air.

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While Munich have relative low air pollution.

Pollution in Munich

Also you need to make a difference between wood burning stoves and much cleaner and efficient district heating plants. There things can be even better by using excess heat from industries and burn unused parts of trees and residual products from sawmill.

District heating
Click to expand...

In the case of Munich, Swiss meteorologist Jörg Kachelmann recently pointed out that evening time air quality in the Bavarian capital becomes worse than the average air quality of much of New South Wales, Australia even as bush fires rage.
Kachelmann tweeted:All air measurement stations in the fire-affected New South Wales currently have better air quality than the wood-fired Munich.
https://dpie.nsw.gov.au/air-quality/air-quality-concentration-data-updated-hourly…
Munich (as always: clean in the daytime, filthy evenings/nights):
 
Bergslagstroll said:
The problem in Australia is that controlled burning are getting less efficient and their are less time to do them safely, because of more extreme weather caused by climate change.

Australia fires: Does controlled burning really work? - BBC News
Click to expand...

My response was indicating I agree with clearing swaths of firewood out as firebreaks, then burn it in a controlled manner in power generation plants. I responded to post 305:

Maybe that's what Australia should do with the wood they clear out for the firebreaks
that they need. A hundred meter swath around every farm and habitation would
probably produce (to use a term that's in vogue today) a sustainable wood supply for
power stations around the country.
​
 
Jack Hays said:
In the case of Munich, Swiss meteorologist Jörg Kachelmann recently pointed out that evening time air quality in the Bavarian capital becomes worse than the average air quality of much of New South Wales, Australia even as bush fires rage.
Kachelmann tweeted:All air measurement stations in the fire-affected New South Wales currently have better air quality than the wood-fired Munich.
https://dpie.nsw.gov.au/air-quality/air-quality-concentration-data-updated-hourly…
Munich (as always: clean in the daytime, filthy evenings/nights):
Click to expand...

If you had looked at the source and zoomed in on the map you could see that the only measuring station in Munich with high pollution right now is positioned directly at a main freeway.

PM10 - Feinstaub, Messwerte Munchen (Stadt) vom 12.01.2020, 14:00 Uhr | Messstationen Luftqualitat

So Germany should learn from Norway and speed up the transition to electric cars.

Tesla Record Pushes Norway’s Share of Electric Car Sales to 42% - Bloomberg

You should also be glad in the drastic decline in coal power in the US, if you are concerned with pollution.

Shuttering of coal plants has saved 26K lives in US: study
 
Bergslagstroll said:
If you had looked at the source and zoomed in on the map you could see that the only measuring station in Munich with high pollution right now is positioned directly at a main freeway. . . .
Click to expand...

Freeway has nothing to do with this: ". . . as always: clean in the daytime, filthy evenings/nights . . . "
 
Bergslagstroll said:
If you had looked at the source and zoomed in on the map you could see that the only measuring station in Munich with high pollution right now is positioned directly at a main freeway.

PM10 - Feinstaub, Messwerte Munchen (Stadt) vom 12.01.2020, 14:00 Uhr | Messstationen Luftqualitat

So Germany should learn from Norway and speed up the transition to electric cars.

Tesla Record Pushes Norway’s Share of Electric Car Sales to 42% - Bloomberg

You should also be glad in the drastic decline in coal power in the US, if you are concerned with pollution.

Shuttering of coal plants has saved 26K lives in US: study
Click to expand...

Once again, you trust what the pundits say and don't read the papers they cite.

The Bloomberg article references a paper that talks about dirty coal being replaced by clean coal and natural gas.

Not quite about what you think, but then your confirmation bias tells you all the facts you need. Right?

Right at the end of the abstract, it says:

Although there are considerable benefits of decommissioning older coal-fired units, the newer natural gas and coal-fired units that have supplanted them are not entirely benign.
​

The downstream air pollution impacts of the transition from coal to natural gas in the United States | Nature Sustainability

It is clearly talking about what the particulate pollution does.

I agree with shutting down old technology coal, and the fact you guys champion China for claiming they will build less than planned is mind-boggling. Mind-boggling because you don't seem to understand the difference in how dirty their plants are when they could spend a little more money and make the same energy with far less pollution.
 
Jack Hays said:
Freeway apparently has no effect in the day time.:roll:
You're just grasping at excuses.
Click to expand...

Here you can read more about inversion during cold winter night and how it affects air pollution.

"Winter temperature inversions play a significant role in the winter pollution episodes in Nordic urban sites. An inversion can prevent the rise and dispersal of pollutants from the lower layers of the atmosphere, because warm air above cooler air acts like a lid, preventing vertical mixing and trapping the pollution material e.g. at the breathing level. Traffic emissions especially have a great impact on air quality at the breathing level, because they are released near the ground.

The strength and duration of the inversion and elevation of the release compared to the inversion elevation has a large influence on the air quality. Air pollution will continue to accumulate until inversion disappears. Traffic particularly and other sources add more pollutants to the air. A strong and low height inversion will lead to high pollutant levels, while a weak inversion will lead to lower levels. In other words, the smaller is the mixing volume; the higher is the pollution concentration. Inversions are also stronger and more common during the winter months. In summer, inversions are less frequent and weaker."

Temperature inversions - Finnish Meteorological Institute
 
Lord of Planar said:
Once again, you trust what the pundits say and don't read the papers they cite.

The Bloomberg article references a paper that talks about dirty coal being replaced by clean coal and natural gas.

Not quite about what you think, but then your confirmation bias tells you all the facts you need. Right?

Right at the end of the abstract, it says:

Although there are considerable benefits of decommissioning older coal-fired units, the newer natural gas and coal-fired units that have supplanted them are not entirely benign.
​

The downstream air pollution impacts of the transition from coal to natural gas in the United States | Nature Sustainability

It is clearly talking about what the particulate pollution does.

I agree with shutting down old technology coal, and the fact you guys champion China for claiming they will build less than planned is mind-boggling. Mind-boggling because you don't seem to understand the difference in how dirty their plants are when they could spend a little more money and make the same energy with far less pollution.
Click to expand...

Getting ride of dirty coal plants have had a huge positive effects on reducing particle pollution and reducing C02 emissions. So it therefor sad that you have western politicians that wants to spend billions of dollars on propping up the coal industry.

Adani mine would be 'unviable' without $4.4bn in subsidies, report finds | Environment | The Guardian

Daily chart - Donald Trump hopes to save America’s failing coal-fired power plants | Graphic detail | The Economist

While as you quote says that new fossil fuel plants are not entirely benign. That at the same you have the massive threat from climate change.

Climate crisis fills top five places of World Economic Forum’s risks report | Business | The Guardian

So western politicians needs to lead the way in the transition away from fossil fuel instead of subsiding fossil fuel.

Denmark sources record 47% of power from wind in 2019 - Reuters

EU to unveil trillion-euro ‘Green Deal’ financial plan



Also carbon tax on import and other ways to pressure on China and other countries can get a lot more acceptance if western politicians them self lead the way,

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-look-like-and-who-would-be-hit-idUSKBN1YE1C4
 
Bergslagstroll said:
Here you can read more about inversion during cold winter night and how it affects air pollution.

"Winter temperature inversions play a significant role in the winter pollution episodes in Nordic urban sites. An inversion can prevent the rise and dispersal of pollutants from the lower layers of the atmosphere, because warm air above cooler air acts like a lid, preventing vertical mixing and trapping the pollution material e.g. at the breathing level. Traffic emissions especially have a great impact on air quality at the breathing level, because they are released near the ground.

The strength and duration of the inversion and elevation of the release compared to the inversion elevation has a large influence on the air quality. Air pollution will continue to accumulate until inversion disappears. Traffic particularly and other sources add more pollutants to the air. A strong and low height inversion will lead to high pollutant levels, while a weak inversion will lead to lower levels. In other words, the smaller is the mixing volume; the higher is the pollution concentration. Inversions are also stronger and more common during the winter months. In summer, inversions are less frequent and weaker."

Temperature inversions - Finnish Meteorological Institute
Click to expand...

Special pleading.
 
Bergslagstroll said:
Getting ride of dirty coal plants have had a huge positive effects on reducing particle pollution and reducing C02 emissions. So it therefor sad that you have western politicians that wants to spend billions of dollars on propping up the coal industry.

I am all for shutting down all older designed coal plants that are not modernized with newer technology. The problem is, your side treats them with a one-size-fits-all solution, like all other idiotic leftist decisions.
Click to expand...
I agree. I was pointing out the fact that the article gave the impression new cleaner technology coal weren't part of what was replacing dirty coal plants.

Bergslagstroll said:
While as you quote says that new fossil fuel plants are not entirely benign. That at the same you have the massive threat from climate change.
Click to expand...
Most of which is really aerosol pollution and land use changes.

Bergslagstroll said:
So western politicians needs to lead the way in the transition away from fossil fuel instead of subsiding fossil fuel.
Click to expand...
We don't subsidize fossil fuel, and we have been leading the way relative to how much new power we need to produce.

Bergslagstroll said:
Also carbon tax on import and other ways to pressure on China and other countries can get a lot more acceptance if western politicians them self lead the way,
Click to expand...
How about instead of a carbon tax, base additional tariffs on the difference in wages, ecological practices, etc.
 
Media_Truth said:
Like I said, many EV owners don't want higher range. If the companies reduced the range, the price could come down. Meanwhile, you continue to ignore all the savings achieved by an electric vehicle, once it's purchased. My solar PVs and residential wind turbine have already paid for themselves. They power my Chevy Volt. I live in a rural area, and my commute is longer than most. Even with a 50-mile electric range on the Volt, I use very little gas - about $5 per month (the Volt can run on gas). That's some incredible savings!!!

Some of the EV manufacturers, such as Tesla, are offering extended range options. This is great for some people, but I wish they would offer a reduced-range option.
Click to expand...

Even with my Prius hybrid, I am getting astronomical mileage. I got 69 mpg the other day, for about 30 miles of driving. Makes sense to me! I just wish the Prius Prime had more than 25 miles EV (and there was a sunroof option), and I'd be buying one ASAP.
 
What if...? said:
I'm about to buy a new small electric motorcycle from zhong Chen in china. Like an electric Honda Grom. 45 MPH 30 mile range riding it like you stole it

Only $3200 out the door. Tax, license, the whole bit.

No more gas to work no more paying for parking. And the place I'm living now has a big array, so solar powered to boot.
Click to expand...

I have 2 electric bicycles, the new one has an over 40 mile range, but I'm providing a good amount of power by pedaling it. It has 4 levels of pedal assist, and a throttle. I've done 33.5 miles on it, and still had plenty of battery. Good fun, good exercise as well. I am waiting for it to warm up today, and I'm off for about 30 miles.
 
beefheart said:
I have 2 electric bicycles, the new one has an over 40 mile range, but I'm providing a good amount of power by pedaling it. It has 4 levels of pedal assist, and a throttle. I've done 33.5 miles on it, and still had plenty of battery. Good fun, good exercise as well. I am waiting for it to warm up today, and I'm off for about 30 miles.
Click to expand...

They kind of dropped the ball on the drive system on the little bike I'm getting. Scrimped on the battery, using laptop cells and the a cheap battery management system.

But at this point in time there are no rules as to power in electric vehicles. All the laws involve ICE modifications.

And a guy on line already jacked one up to an 80mph top speed and an estimated 60 mile range at 50-60mph.

Guess I'll be building my own battery pack!
 
What if...? said:
They kind of dropped the ball on the drive system on the little bike I'm getting. Scrimped on the battery, using laptop cells and the a cheap battery management system.

But at this point in time there are no rules as to power in electric vehicles. All the laws involve ICE modifications.

And a guy on line already jacked one up to an 80mph top speed and an estimated 60 mile range at 50-60mph.

Guess I'll be building my own battery pack!
Click to expand...

And what do you you do at 60 MPH when the battery pack catches on fire under your privates?
 
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