Renewable Energy and Electric Cars Pressure Oil Economically as Well as Environmentally

[Surface Detail]

LOL yeah right. Your own link says that the Danes and the Germans pay the highest electric rates in Europe. Thanks for proving yourself wrong. :lamo

Your comprehension skills are not good :lamo He wrote:

"Also Danish people pay roughly the same percent of income for electricity as other European household thanks to energy saving measures and a strong economy."

While Denmark has the highest electricity prices in Europe, they pay roughly the same percent of their income for electricity as other European households because a) they have high incomes, and b) they use less electricity. See?

 

[Jack Hays]

False Humility Will Not Save the Planet
Maarten Boudry, Quillette

 

[Lord of Planar]

There are no correlation between percent of renewable and electricity cost or increase in renewables and increase in electricity prices for consumers in Europe. Also Danish people pay roughly the same percent of income for electricity as other European household thanks to energy saving measures and a strong economy.

Electricity Prices in Europe - Who pays the most? [2010 - 2017]

Also investment in renewables energy have really payed because renewables are now outcompeting fossil fuel and other energy sources on price.

Huge Battery Investments Drop Energy-Storage Costs Faster Than Expected, Threatening Natural Gas

As other socialistic nations.

Yep.

Your dream is for us to become socialists, isn't it?

 

[PoS]

Ireland and Belgium have a much smaller percent renewables than several other European countries. That a lot of factors affect electricity price, for example that industry often pay a lot less in Europe.

• Industrial electricity prices across Europe 2018 | Statista

Also you have this image how much of income household have to spend on electricity.


That energy savings can play a big role in reducing how much household have to pay. Sadly US have a president that wants to stop energy saving measures.

Trump Bends the Facts on Lightbulbs - FactCheck.org

LOL stop lying.

Your comprehension skills are not good :lamo He wrote:

"Also Danish people pay roughly the same percent of income for electricity as other European household thanks to energy saving measures and a strong economy."

While Denmark has the highest electricity prices in Europe, they pay roughly the same percent of their income for electricity as other European households because a) they have high incomes, and b) they use less electricity. See?

As usual youre both wrong.

• Denmark: electricity price 2010-2018 | Statista

"One of the reasons for the high price of electricity in Denmark is that taxes account for a large proportion of the overall price. As of January 2019, energy taxes made up a share of approximately 16 percent of the average EU residential end-user electricity price structure. In the Danish capital Copenhagen, however, energy taxes amounted to 41 percent. This was by far the highest energy taxation in major European cities."

You ought to move to another forum since you get beaten every time here. :lol:

 

[Surface Detail]

LOL stop lying.




As usual youre both wrong.

• Denmark: electricity price 2010-2018 | Statista

"One of the reasons for the high price of electricity in Denmark is that taxes account for a large proportion of the overall price. As of January 2019, energy taxes made up a share of approximately 16 percent of the average EU residential end-user electricity price structure. In the Danish capital Copenhagen, however, energy taxes amounted to 41 percent. This was by far the highest energy taxation in major European cities."

You ought to move to another forum since you get beaten every time here. :lol:

Are your comprehension skills really that bad?

Let me explain again in short sentences:

1) Denmark has high electricity prices (due, in part, to high energy taxes).
2) Danes have high incomes relative to other Europeans.
3) Danes use less electricity than other Europeans.

Consequently Danes spend a similar proportion of their income on electricity as other Europeans.
Is this really so difficult for you to understand?

 

[Lord of Planar]

Are your comprehension skills really that bad?

Let me explain again in short sentences:

1) Denmark has high electricity prices (due, in part, to high energy taxes).
2) Danes have high incomes relative to other Europeans.
3) Danes use less electricity than other Europeans.

Consequently Danes spend a similar proportion of their income on electricity as other Europeans.
Is this really so difficult for you to understand?

Yep.

Less electricity. More money and a lower standard of living...

 

[ludin]

Yep.

Less electricity. More money and a lower standard of living...

I think chevy had a good idea with the volt. as usual though chevy failed to follow through.
I think basically a generator type of system is better.

you have a power plant that generates electricity to feed the batteries after a certain usage.
that is why hydrogen cells are popular. you don't depend on a bank of batteries for everything which wears
the batteries out. you have a separate system that generates the electricity and then a module to distribute that
energy to the needed components.

we use this type of technology all over the place and it works very well and is very very efficient.

 

[longview]

Yep.

Less electricity. More money and a lower standard of living...

I think there is something wrong with the stated 1.9% of household income number.
Consider that the average household income in Denmark is $42,589,
Denmark Household Income per Capita [2000 - 2020] [Data & Charts]
1.9% of $42,589 is $809.19, which at $.031 per Kwh is only 2610 Kwh per year,
yet reports place Denmark's per capita electrical usage at 5695 kwh/year.
Energy consumption in Denmark
Since it is not possible to have less than one person in a household, something is off with the 1.9% number!

 

[Surface Detail]

Yep.

Less electricity. More money and a lower standard of living...

Lower electricity use is not synonymous with a lower standard of living. We Brits consume less than half of the electricity per capita that US citizens do, yet we live longer lives.

 

[Jack Hays]

Lower electricity use is not synonymous with a lower standard of living. We Brits consume less than half of the electricity per capita that US citizens do, yet we live longer lives.

You're in the UK -- lives only seem longer.

 

[PoS]

Are your comprehension skills really that bad?

Let me explain again in short sentences:

1) Denmark has high electricity prices (due, in part, to high energy taxes).
2) Danes have high incomes relative to other Europeans.
3) Danes use less electricity than other Europeans.

Consequently Danes spend a similar proportion of their income on electricity as other Europeans.
Is this really so difficult for you to understand?

Once again you move the goalposts- the issue here is who is subjected to the highest energy prices in the EU due to a fanatical adherence to renewable energy. The claim that Denmark makes more money is irrelevant since the other EU countries make close to similar amounts in average salary as they do. The fact that their energy prices are high is due to plain stupidity.

List of European countries by average wage - Wikipedia

 

[Lord of Planar]

I think chevy had a good idea with the volt. as usual though chevy failed to follow through.
I think basically a generator type of system is better.

you have a power plant that generates electricity to feed the batteries after a certain usage.
that is why hydrogen cells are popular. you don't depend on a bank of batteries for everything which wears
the batteries out. you have a separate system that generates the electricity and then a module to distribute that
energy to the needed components.

we use this type of technology all over the place and it works very well and is very very efficient.

I'll bet fuel cells have a shorter life than batteries.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Lower electricity use is not synonymous with a lower standard of living. We Brits consume less than half of the electricity per capita that US citizens do, yet we live longer lives.

You drink more real beer and eat more real food than we do. Our foods and drinks are crap for the most part.

 

[Jack Hays]

You drink more real beer and eat more real food than we do. Our foods and drinks are crap for the most part.

Speak for yourself.:drink

 

[Lord of Planar]

Speak for yourself.:drink

I mean as for the average citizen.

I don't buy that process food crap, veggies, or fruits in our supermarkets. I go to a growers outlet, and often buy organic. I buy pasture eggs and real whole milk. I watch the ingredients of food carefully. I drink some of the best crafted microbrews we have in the Northwest. I usually but beer from the Deschutes Brewery.

I don't drink Schludwiller like most Americans do. I always got a kick out of these commercials.

 

[ludin]

I'll bet fuel cells have a shorter life than batteries.

The fuel cell stacks are designed to last the lifetime of the vehicle, about 150,000-200,000 miles.
this is the best information that i can find.

that is a good long time.
about the time you would be going to replace you car anyway probably.

Unless something changes you are better off buying a new car a new fuel cell right now are very
very expensive.

 

[TomFitz]

Electric motors are efficient. It's power storage that is not. Gasoline is much more weight and cost effective than batteries, enough to overcome the difference in efficiency. H2 and CH4 combustion engines are comparably clean, much less massive and environmentally poisonous. Your own source says that investments have and continue to be steadily losing propositions. Fuel cells would change that balance, but don't expect them soon.

Automobiles are not the only exponential growth market for lithium ion batteries, or for the research in battery technology.

Power generating utilities have initiated a stampede in orders and investment in battery farms, following the extraordinary performance of the Tesla supplied Hornsdale battery farm in South Australia. This plant radically reduced the stress on the electrical grid it was connected to, was able to come on line in seconds, rather than minutes or hours, smoothing the demand curve, and will pay for itself completely in three years.

It also completely eliminated the “duck curve” which has been the bane of electric companies for a century.

This is spectacular financial performance for any part of the electric power grid, and it has attracted a flood of investment.

Every major automobile company in the world has an electric car on the market, and full product lines in development.

The boat has sailed.

Hydrogen largely replaces gasoline with a different but clean fuel.

 

[TomFitz]

The fuel cell stacks are designed to last the lifetime of the vehicle, about 150,000-200,000 miles.
this is the best information that i can find.

that is a good long time.
about the time you would be going to replace you car anyway probably.

Unless something changes you are better off buying a new car a new fuel cell right now are very
very expensive.

I have 300,000 miles on the lithium ion batteries in my ten year old Prius, and they show no sign of deterioration. (Plus, they can be refurbished).

 

[ludin]

I have 300,000 miles on the lithium ion batteries in my ten year old Prius, and they show no sign of deterioration. (Plus, they can be refurbished).

10 years is about the lifetime of those packs.
the prius works off a similar process but not as efficient as the volt.

Hydrogen cells are the future. batteries will still be needed to help with
voltage control etc and to start the systems.

The problem are still that hydrogen is still very expensive, but a new process
was just invented with ability to cut that cost down.

 

[longview]

Automobiles are not the only exponential growth market for lithium ion batteries, or for the research in battery technology.

Power generating utilities have initiated a stampede in orders and investment in battery farms, following the extraordinary performance of the Tesla supplied Hornsdale battery farm in South Australia. This plant radically reduced the stress on the electrical grid it was connected to, was able to come on line in seconds, rather than minutes or hours, smoothing the demand curve, and will pay for itself completely in three years.

It also completely eliminated the “duck curve” which has been the bane of electric companies for a century.

This is spectacular financial performance for any part of the electric power grid, and it has attracted a flood of investment.

Every major automobile company in the world has an electric car on the market, and full product lines in development.

The boat has sailed.

Hydrogen largely replaces gasoline with a different but clean fuel.

Please consider that the duck curve is still quite alive, and adding millions of electric vehicles that
need to be charged every night could move the high points of the curve to a time where solar is not available.

 

[TomFitz]

Please consider that the duck curve is still quite alive, and adding millions of electric vehicles that
need to be charged every night could move the high points of the curve to a time where solar is not available.

Your understanding is out of date.

Battery farms, particularly ones tied to renewable sources solve that problem completely and decrease the stress on the system.

How the Tesla big battery kept the lights on in South Australia | RenewEconomy

Now, imagine putting batteries in your garage or basement.

 

[longview]

Your understanding is out of date.

Battery farms, particularly ones tied to renewable sources solve that problem completely and decrease the stress on the system.

How the Tesla big battery kept the lights on in South Australia | RenewEconomy

Now, imagine putting batteries in your garage or basement.

No, My information is not out of date! You have to understand how small the South Australia battery really is.
Tesla’s Megapack battery is big enough to help grids handle peak demand - The Verge

Tesla recently finished building the largest lithium-ion battery in the world in Australia using Powerpacks.
It has a capacity of 129 MWh and can deliver 100 MW of power.

Now lets consider what 129 MWh means.
If we consider what a single power plant produces, and see how long the battery power will last with the same load.
Braemar Power Station - Wikipedia
Nameplate capacity 502 MW (Braemar-1), if they lost a single power station like Braemar-1, the battery capacity (129 MWh) would last,
129/529=.24 hours, or about 15 minuets, but it really cannot do that since it is limited in output to 100 MW,
so could provide roughly 20% of the demand for 1 hour.

 

[Lord of Planar]

The fuel cell stacks are designed to last the lifetime of the vehicle, about 150,000-200,000 miles.
this is the best information that i can find.

that is a good long time.
about the time you would be going to replace you car anyway probably.

Unless something changes you are better off buying a new car a new fuel cell right now are very
very expensive.

If they last that long, they have made fantastic improvements that I have not heard of. They used to have a problem with the separation membrane becoming unusable over time from contaminants. The hydrogen and oxygen had to be super pure to last any reasonable time.

 

[ludin]

If they last that long, they have made fantastic improvements that I have not heard of. They used to have a problem with the separation membrane becoming unusable over time from contaminants. The hydrogen and oxygen had to be super pure to last any reasonable time.

Yes they have come a long way and some college invented a new refining process in order to break down water better.

 

[Bergslagstroll]

Yep.

Less electricity. More money and a lower standard of living...

You have not show a correlation between share of electricity from renewables and cost of electricity for households in Europe. Take for example UK that have lower electricity price for households than the EU average. While at the same time get almost 40 percent of electricity from wind power, biomass and solar power.

"Wind power is the UK’s strongest source of renewable energy and made up 20% of the UK’s electricity following a series of major windfarm openings in recent years. Electricity from renewable biomass plants made up 12% of the energy system, while solar panels contributed 6%."

Renewables beat fossil fuels on 137 days in greenest year for UK energy | Business | The Guardian

There you also are seeing a sharp increase in renewable power in the UK.

Renewables beat fossil fuels on 137 days in greenest year for UK energy | Business | The Guardian

While Denmark rank very high on many list, like for example the World Happiness Report and Best Country for Business List.

World Happiness Report - Wikipedia

Best Countries for Business List