Putin NAILS IT

[FastPace]

No. What is amazing is your defacto admission that Putin is reponsible for Trump's Presidency. Every time you dismiss the CIA and take Putin's side you admit you know it is true.

@ bold: let me guess... you believe in the catastrophic hypothesis of global warming? And you used the same statistical science to conclude Putin is responsible for Trump being President?

What is interesting is I never received your survey--or that of the CIA/NSA/FBI--asking me a series of questions as to who I voted for and the whys?

You must have voted for Trump because of Putin given you're so sure Putin controlled the minds of a Americans.

 

[FastPace]

I never said the missile shields were ICBM's. But ICBM's make locations of missile shields irrelevant to a nations security. That is the strawman you are using.

No, placing missile defense shields (which are nuclear capable, and can hit Moscow in several minutes) next door to Russia reduces, compromises, the security of mainland USA from a potential launch of Russian nuclear ICBM's. One, mistake, one miscalculation, and what originally gave any President of Russia 3 minutes to think and respond with a stand down or launch of nuclear weapons at the US, goes down to maybe 60 seconds or 30 seconds to make a decision.

If a counter launch is going to happen any President of any nuclear nation must order launch of nukes before their nation is hit.

So, it doesn't increase American security, it decreases it.


Game Theory and the Cold War - How Game Theory Works | HowStuffWorks

Game theory's development accelerated at a record pace during World War II. Though it was intended for economics, both the United States and the Soviet Union quickly saw its value for forming war strategies.

Early in the Cold War, the Eisenhower administration viewed nuclear weapons like any other weapon in the arsenal available for use [source: Spence]. Game theorist Thomas Schelling convinced officials that nuclear weapons were only useful as deterrents.

If one nation changed the balance of power (by building a missile-defense shield, for instance), would it lead to a strategic blunder that resulted in nuclear war? Governments consulted game theorists to prevent such imbalances.

So, this is why Putin has said they have taken strategic action to counter the United State's move with that missile defense. The insinuation is that has moved to increase its nuclear, and destructive capabilities of mainland USA.

 

[Tigerace117]

Wait...you count having a missile shield in their own country as the same as us installing missile shields in other countries right on their border? Pretty weak.

They are attacking our allies. That is what I counted as third. I disregarded the whole missile shield part.

You should learn to read minds better :mrgreen:

 

[sanman]

It doesn't do Trump and his cause any good to have Putin defending him or trying to act as character witness for him. Imagine if this was any other American president in our past.....we would be outraged by all this Russia talk and Russian hacking and what not... Show me why America and our president should be acting so desperate to be in Russia's corner?

Russia isn't the enemy anymore - meanwhile every other enemy America has prefers Obama, which says something.

The day we want a murderous tyrants "respect" is the day the U.S. is over. Why can't you just move to Russia if you admire Putin so much?

Why don't you move to Mecca or Mexico, since you love them so much?

Putin has restarted it with a vengence and you are an example of his work.

Ohh - so anyone like me who doesn't toe your line is now automatically a Russian agent? You tell us more about yourself with that kind of statement.

Gee, has anybody told the Russians that? They don't seem to have gotten the memo.

Does it look like the Cold War is over?

You're both trying to establish "truth by repeated assertion" - in other words, you have nothing, but are trying to pretend otherwise.

 

[upsideguy]

Putin, is the elder statesman of a generation. He schooled and humiliated Kerry and he did the same to Obama.

"Have you lost your senses over there?"

OK, so we are siding with the leader of one of America's leading adversaries over American leaders and American institutions. Have you lost your senses "Out West"?

Mind boggling where people will go to hear what they want to hear. Putin goes to sleep at night chuckling that he has people like you hanging on his every word.

 

[Fishking]

I never said the missile shields were ICBM's. But ICBM's make locations of missile shields irrelevant to a nations security. That is the strawman you are using.

No it isn't. Putting missile shields in certain areas will create an imbalance of power so will necessitate Russia taking actions to counteract that. You think they are just going to sit on their hands and give up that strategic ground? Should they even be expected to? That's ridiculous.

 

[Fishking]

They are attacking our allies. That is what I counted as third. I disregarded the whole missile shield part.

You should learn to read minds better :mrgreen:

What ally have they attacked?

 

[reinoe]

OK, so we are siding with the leader of one of America's leading adversaries over American leaders and American institutions. Have you lost your senses "Out West"?

Mind boggling where people will go to hear what they want to hear. Putin goes to sleep at night chuckling that he has people like you hanging on his every word.

Last time I checked, it wasn't the Russian spying on the American people illegally. It was "American Leaders and Institutions" that facilitated that fundamental betrayal. And while we're on that point...

It wasn't RT, Zerohedge, and alternative news sources that misled the American people into an unnecessary war that cost thousands of American lives and TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS. It was "American Leaders and Institutions".

Please spare me your coddling of the establishment. Maybe you like being betrayed and licking the hand that beats you like a dog, but I'll take a pass.

 

[Fishking]

You're both trying to establish "truth by repeated assertion" - in other words, you have nothing, but are trying to pretend otherwise.

Hmmm? So we didn't continually expand NATO and isolated any country that was allied with Russia? We stopped doing all that?

 

[Tigerace117]

Russia isn't the enemy anymore - meanwhile every other enemy America has prefers Obama, which says something.




Why don't you move to Mecca or Mexico, since you love them so much?



Ohh - so anyone like me who doesn't toe your line is now automatically a Russian agent? You tell us more about yourself with that kind of statement.





You're both trying to establish "truth by repeated assertion" - in other words, you have nothing, but are trying to pretend otherwise.

Have you told Russia that? They really don't seem to understand the concept. Old habits and all that.

Ah, yet more crying "but Obama". Irrelevant.

You can bury your head in the sand all you want, but it doesn't change reality.

 

[Tigerace117]

What ally have they attacked?

Other than Georgia?

 

[sanman]

Hmmm? So we didn't continually expand NATO and isolated any country that was allied with Russia? We stopped doing all that?

NATO has become a special interest group lobby trying to justify its existence and its funding. The longer it continues to stay around, the more it will try to revive the conflict that it originated from - because it's inherently in its interest to do so, just based on its constiuents.

After the USSR dissolved, NATO began looking for new missions - after 9/11, it began peddling itself as an anti-terror organization (whose members were in the wrong part of the world?) - it was looking for a new raison d'etre. What it should have done was dismantle itself because its original raison d'etre was no longer around.

Now, of course the inevitable has happened - NATO has continued to encroach on Russia, while waiting for an opening - the Ukraine conflict - which has enabled it to say "Aha! USSR is still around! We still need to exist!"

Existential crisis solved: when your war is over and you don't know what to do with yourself, then just revive the war.

 

[Slingshot Bob]

The Putin love exhibited by those on the American Right is strong. You all really should consider moving there. I hear they have lots of room, no Mexicans, and a penchant for putting gays in their place. You can feel right at home.

Keep swinging, nothing to see hear.

 

[Fishking]

Other than Georgia?

(0.o)

Georgia invaded South Ossetia.

 

[Tigerace117]

(0.o)

Georgia invaded South Ossetia.

After the Ossetians shelled Georgian villages.

 

[iguanaman]

No it isn't. Putting missile shields in certain areas will create an imbalance of power so will necessitate Russia taking actions to counteract that. You think they are just going to sit on their hands and give up that strategic ground? Should they even be expected to? That's ridiculous.

Huh? You mean it may prevent Putin from invading? How? That is not even true. And how is that a threat to Putin.s fledgling USSR that he is annexing piece by piece? They are for defense against rogue missiles and are no match for the fire power Putin can muster.

 

[iguanaman]

Russia isn't the enemy anymore - meanwhile every other enemy America has prefers Obama, which says something.




Why don't you move to Mecca or Mexico, since you love them so much?



Ohh - so anyone like me who doesn't toe your line is now automatically a Russian agent? You tell us more about yourself with that kind of statement.





You're both trying to establish "truth by repeated assertion" - in other words, you have nothing, but are trying to pretend otherwise.

Yes, Like Putin's paid trolls you are spreading lies to further the goals of Vladimir Putin. It is as simple as that. Putin is the liar and most expert in the field are in agreement with that. And Russia actively attacking our entire election system is an act of war that we must respond to with force. Putin only understands force. We need to isolate and crush him economically, that is his big weakness. He will fall like the USSR before him. But first we need to rid ourselves of his patsie, the one who Putin elected President.

 

[sanman]

Yes, Like Putin's paid trolls you are spreading lies to further the goals of Vladimir Putin. It is as simple as that. Putin is the liar and most expert in the field are in agreement with that. And Russia actively attacking our entire election system is an act of war that we must respond to with force. Putin only understands force. We need to isolate and crush him economically, that is his big weakness. He will fall like the USSR before him. But first we need to rid ourselves of his patsie, the one who Putin elected President.

You people didn't give a damn about Putin until Albright & Hillary started squawking at him (Albright started squawking ahead of Hillary). The Left have degenerated into a Coalition of Special Interests, and it's been all too easy for Cold War Die-Hards to inject themselves into the Coalition, with the goal of keeping their precious Cold War alive along with the NATO Gravy Train. The moment Trump began questioning the NATO Gravy Train was when he was suddenly smeared as an agent of Putin. The issue of NATO members adequately contributing their fair share has been an issue for decades, but now suddenly it's supposed to be taboo/verboten?

 

[iguanaman]

You people didn't give a damn about Putin until Albright & Hillary started squawking at him (Albright started squawking ahead of Hillary). The Left have degenerated into a Coalition of Special Interests, and it's been all too easy for Cold War Die-Hards to inject themselves into the Coalition, with the goal of keeping their precious Cold War alive along with the NATO Gravy Train. The moment Trump began questioning the NATO Gravy Train was when he was suddenly smeared as an agent of Putin. The issue of NATO members adequately contributing their fair share has been an issue for decades, but now suddenly it's supposed to be taboo/verboten?

Tell me how much the U.S will save if all the NATO nations spend the 2% of GDP? How about we cut our defense budget to 2% and let the others take up the slack? No that is not possible, we are increasing our spending even more regardless. Right? It is a strawman meant to belittle NATO with no real results. Agreements to increase spending by member nations are already in place. What Trump did publicly actually made it politically more difficult for nations to justify increases to their population. Trump even personally removed the article 5 reference on direct orders from Putin no doubt.

 

[Kurmugeon]

Last time I checked, it wasn't the Russian spying on the American people illegally. It was "American Leaders and Institutions" that facilitated that fundamental betrayal. And while we're on that point...

It wasn't RT, Zerohedge, and alternative news sources that misled the American people into an unnecessary war that cost thousands of American lives and TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS. It was "American Leaders and Institutions".

Please spare me your coddling of the establishment. Maybe you like being betrayed and licking the hand that beats you like a dog, but I'll take a pass.

Yeah...

Nobody wants to talk about the only hard evidence of real crimes... with the Obama/Rice abuse of power to use our Intel agencies for political persectution.

THIS is the real problem... which all of the HATE and Hyperbole is supposed to distract U.S. from...

Well, given what we have seen in abuse of power, I would support complete shut down and dismantling of the CIA, NSA, FBI, and all other U.S. Intel agencies, taking all of their Toys, and locking them up in a series of Govt. Warehouses, and slowly starting the process of rebuilding with proper checks and balances, and systems to stop political abuse.

It is time for Trump to FIRE everyone envolved in U.S. Intel.


Some few, might be re-hired, a few years from now.
-

 

[Thoreau72]

You should consider working for Putin as one of his propagandists...oh wait you already are

How perceptive you are! Yes, Vlad pays me $2000 a month to post here. :lamo

 

[Fishking]

After the Ossetians shelled Georgian villages.

They were both messing with each other. Fact remains, Georgia invaded S. Ossetia so your example falls flat.

 

[Tigerace117]

They were both messing with each other. Fact remains, Georgia invaded S. Ossetia so your example falls flat.

And Russia invaded Georgia. A US ally.

 

[OlNate]

How perceptive you are! Yes, Vlad pays me $2000 a month to post here. :lamo

I want in!!! lol :lamo

 

[Fishking]

Huh? You mean it may prevent Putin from invading? How? That is not even true. And how is that a threat to Putin.s fledgling USSR that he is annexing piece by piece? They are for defense against rogue missiles and are no match for the fire power Putin can muster.

You really don't know the history of the nuclear area, do you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Ballistic_Missile_Treaty

A missile shield is a strategic threat.