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Proof of Guilt!

Then we agree; the proof is yet to come.

Yes, but in the meantime we believe he (Cohen) is telling the truth as the other option (that he is lying) does not make any sense. Also keep in mind that Cohen has one of the better attorneys in the U.S. and as such, he would not make a stupid move that would cost him and his family more trouble.
 
We don't just have his word. We have the facts.

What reasonable person believes that Cohen acted on his own in paying off Trump's mistresses? Do you?

Moreover, Trump has already lied numerous times about this. He said he didn't have the affair. Then he said he didn't know about the payments. What is the president's word worth at this point? And the facts speak for themselves.

Nothing illegal about paying off a mistress for silence. The claim however is that in doing so is a camaign violation. However, that coukd be disputed.
 
Yes, but in the meantime we believe he (Cohen) is telling the truth as the other option (that he is lying) does not make any sense.

Pointing fingers always makes sense.

Also keep in mind that Cohen has one of the better attorneys in the U.S. and as such, he would not make a stupid move that would cost him and his family more trouble.

Don't make me laugh.
 
But how much treason did he commit?

Let me answer you with this quote from George Orwell in this "1984" book

"Truth is treason in an empire of lies"

As such, the opposite must also be true......."lying is treason in an empire of truth"

By the way, let me take this opportunity to also quote Thomas Jefferson in a adage he wrote:

He who permits himself to tell a lie once, finds it much easier to do it a second and a third time till at length it becomes habitual.

Thomas Jefferson


With Trump now on his 4300+ lie since he took office, it seems Thomas Jefferson knew what he was talking about.
 
I didn't say you trying to "defend Trump." I'm taking issue with the no proof claim.

You're making a credibility judgment, but that doesn't mean that Cohen's word - and potential eventual testimony - does not count as evidence aka "proof". In a hypothetical trials, other jurors might find him credible. Then it would be probative evidence to them. And as I said, a single witness's testimony can be not just evidence but proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Maybe it seems like a fine distinction, but it's an important one. People around here are constantly declaring that what people say they saw/heard isn't proof or isn't evidence when it is.

Ahh! Relying upon the old 'Truth is not truth' argument, I see.
 
Don't make me laugh (regarding Cohen's lawyer).

Lanny Jesse Davis (born December 12, 1945) is an American lawyer, consultant, lobbyist, author, and television commentator. He is the co-founder and partner of the law firm of Davis Goldberg & Galper PLLC, and co-founder and partner of the public relations firm Trident DMG. From 1996 to 1998, he served as a special counsel to President Bill Clinton, and was a spokesperson for the President and the White House on matters concerning campaign-finance investigations and other legal issues.[citation needed]

In July 2018, Davis was hired by Michael Cohen, a former special counsel to Donald Trump, to represent him as co-counsel in the Stormy Daniels–Donald Trump scandal.[2] Davis stated that on July 2, he successfully persuaded Cohen to admit that Trump ordered him to make fraud payments in order to cover up an affair Trump had with Daniels.[3] On July 25, Davis released an actual recording where Trump and Cohen discussed an illegal payment surrounding a different affair with model Karen McDougal to CNN, which played it on the air. On it, Trump and Cohen can be heard discussing how to make a payment for "all of that info regarding our friend David," interpreted as meaning David Pecker, the head of American Media which publishes the National Enquirer.[4][5] Cohen later plead guilty to tax and bank fraud on August 21, 2018.[3]

Davis's clients have included Porton Group, National Women's History Museum, National Black Chamber of Commerce, eHealth, Sofitel Hotels, Trent Lott, Gene Upshaw, Dan Snyder, Martha Stewart and the Office of the President at Penn State University. Davis has been a regular television commentator and political and legal analyst for MSNBC, CNN, CNBC and network television news programs.[6] He currently has a column called "Purple Nation" that appears regularly in a variety of publications spanning the political spectrum, including The Hill, The Huffington Post, FoxNews.com and The Daily Caller. A Yale Law School graduate, he won the Thurman Arnold Moot Court prize and served on the Yale Law Journal.[citation needed]

In 2005, President George W. Bush appointed Davis to serve as the only Democratic member of the five-member Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board, created by the U.S. Congress as part of the 2005 Intelligence Reform Act.
 
For the record, eco is totally not a trump supporter.
That's why I said "you're still making excuses for him." That doesn't require eco to own a collection of MAGA hats.
 
He might be great, but "something stupid can't happen"? Something stupid can always happen.

Yeah, and we could also get hit by lightening when we go out when it is raining. Then again, the odds of that happening are higher than those of hitting the lottery. Do you think that this is such a possibility? after all, this is not the first time that Trump has cheated on his wives, not the first time Trump has paid off someone to keep quiet, and not the first time that he has lied.

As such, your odds of Trump being right and Cohen being wrong have now increased ten-fold. Are you sure you want to waste your time and effort on that kind of bet? After all, if you are wrong (which is highly likely), some of the sh*t will fall on you.
 
Yeah, and we could also get hit by lightening when we go out when it is raining. Then again, the odds of that happening are higher than those of hitting the lottery. Do you think that this is such a possibility? after all, this is not the first time that Trump has cheated on his wives, not the first time Trump has paid off someone to keep quiet, and not the first time that he has lied.

As such, your odds of Trump being right and Cohen being wrong have now increased ten-fold. Are you sure you want to waste your time and effort on that kind of bet? After all, if you are wrong (which is highly likely), some of the sh*t will fall on you.

The proof has yet to come.
 
I bet Cohen wishes that he was loyal to Trump now!
 
Nothing illegal about paying off a mistress for silence. The claim however is that in doing so is a camaign violation. However, that coukd be disputed.

Perhaps, but then again the issue is that he lied about it and that makes Trump a liar and not someone that can be depended upon to tell the truth.
 
Two charges, 7 & 8. Right now we have only Cohen's word, which is worthless.


'cept for the tapes.

Cohen's tapes.

Avenatti/Stormy tapes.

Omarosa's tapes.

The tapes, my friend.

The skeleton's are on the march.
 
'cept for the tapes.

Cohen's tapes.

Avenatti/Stormy tapes.

Omarosa's tapes.

The tapes, my friend.

The skeleton's are on the march.

The tapes I've seen are not sure proof that Trump knowingly directed illegal acts.
 
The tapes I've seen are not sure proof that Trump knowingly directed illegal acts.

And you've heard, like, 1% of the tapes?

Patience, my friend. No doubt Mueller is saving the best for last
 
Since I have been on DP, the one thing that all Trump supporters have said over and over again when given derogatory remarks about the President is "show proof of guilt". There was even one thread where another Trump supporter said "show proof that he has lied".

Today, in one fell swoop, proof of both has arrived. Egg in the face has now been splattered.

Cohen pleaded guilty to 8 charges, one of which was illegal campaign contributions at the bequest of President Trump in paying off the 2 women that were accusing Trump of having slept with them. These payments were made in order to influence the 2016 election.

Given that Trump has been asked repeatedly if he knew of those payments and having answered in a negative way, not only has it been proven that Trump has committed a crime but that he lied about it.

How will Trump supporters now handle this?

They’ll say Cohen is lying.
 
I think people are way over-expecting the significance of this step. Cohen's word and the tapes we've seen are not proof. Trump will claim, "nah uh". Then what?

you are attempting to use logic and reason.

These people are not able to handle logic and reason.
they do not understand that allegations without evidence is nothing.

the only thing they care about is that someone pointed a finger at trump and said "it's a witch"
that is all that matters.

they don't care that we have seen no evidence to support said allegation or anything else.
 
you are attempting to use logic and reason.

These people are not able to handle logic and reason.
they do not understand that allegations without evidence is nothing.

the only thing they care about is that someone pointed a finger at trump and said "it's a witch"
that is all that matters.

they don't care that we have seen no evidence to support said allegation or anything else.

All I can say in response to your post is"

If is looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck"

You go on further to say "these people cannot handle logic and reason"

Below is the Collins Dictionary definition of Logic:

1. uncountable noun
Logic is a method of reasoning that involves a series of statements, each of which must be true if the statement before it is true.
Apart from criminal investigation techniques, students learn forensic medicine, philosophy and logic.
2. uncountable noun
The logic of a conclusion or an argument is its quality of being correct and reasonable.
I don't follow the logic of your argument.
3. uncountable noun
A particular kind of logic is the way of thinking and reasoning about things that is characteristic of a particular type of person or particular field of activity.

Trump has been consistent in his way of being and that means that logic would suggest that with so many accusations of the "same type" against him, logic would "suggest" that he is guilty.

and here is the definition of Reason:

a basis or cause, as for some belief, action, fact, event, etc.:
the reason for declaring war.
a statement presented in justification or explanation of a belief or action:
I dare you to give me one good reason for quitting school!
the mental powers concerned with forming conclusions, judgments, or inferences:
Effective leadership requires a person of reason.

Trump has given plenty of examples of his beliefs and his conduct where it is "reasonable" to believe he is guilty. I dare you to give me one good reason for Trump not being guilty.

It never ceases to amaze me how Trump supporters can be slapped in the face over and over again and totally disregard the slapping. It's like they were Catholics that were taught to "turn the other cheek" if slapped. When Trump supporters are classified as a "sect", all the characteristics of a sect are evident.
 
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they don't care that we have seen no evidence to support said allegation or anything else.

Evidently you have forgotten the tape that was submitted by Cohen just a couple of weeks ago in which Trump shows he is aware that money is being paid to one of the women accusing him.

That tape is evidence to support the allegation that if nothing else, Trump is a liar given the amount of times he has said "I don't know anything about it"

As far as being convicted of all of this with further proof, that presents another problem given that Trump is lucky he is President and Presidents cannot be indicted and taken to a court where the facts would be shown and a verdict given. The only thing that can be done is "impeachment" and for that to occur, proof of wrongdoing is not enough. You need to have a majority of the Senate to vote for impeachment. As such, unless the House changes the majority from Republican to Democrat, it is not likely to happen.

This, of course, does not make Trump innocent, just lucky.
 
Eyes closed, hands over ears, screaming at the top of their lungs "THERE WAS NO COLLUSION, THERE WAS NO COLLUSION!!!!!!!"

Still no proof I see, sorry but accusations are not proof of anything


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It’s funny too because, outside all of the Cohen stuff, it’s been....the meeting in the trump tower was about Russian adoptions, which changed to recently it was about to get dirt on clinton. How can anyone say there is no evidence of collusion with the flat out lie from trump?

If you will admit Clinton is guilty of the same crimes, then I’ll agree with you. ( Russian dossier) wasn’t that dirt on an opponent?


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If you will admit Clinton is guilty of the same crimes, then I’ll agree with you. ( Russian dossier) wasn’t that dirt on an opponent?


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False equivalency...AGAIN, the favored tool of Trumplicans everywhere.
 
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