Pope Tells Gay Man: ‘God Made You Like This and Loves You Like This’

[Logicman]

What you have there is proscriptions from Levitcus, most of which are ignored by christians as being for Jews only or no longer valid, and a few letters written by that old sinner Paul explaining his opinions.
Nothing about Jesus.

I don't know of any Christians who ignore Leviticus. They may not read it much, but they still consider the moral laws in it valid.

Nothing about Jesus? Did you see what I wrote in that post?

"And for those who would argue that Jesus never spoke out about gay sex, there's the following: Jesus is God (in scripture). As God, Jesus is the one who gave Moses the Leviticus law against gay sexual relations to begin with; and he’s the one who inspires all Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16), including prohibitions against gay sexual relations in Romans 1:26-27 and I Corinthians 6:9-10, etc. It’s also worth noting that Jesus didn’t mention wife beating or other sins such as pedophilia either, and there are not many folks who would argue he approved of those behaviors. So Jesus was under no obligation to reiterate the moral laws against homosexual sin that already existed, unless there were clarifications to be made."

 

[Grand Mal]

I don't know of any Christians who ignore Leviticus. They may not read it much, but they still consider the moral laws in it valid.

Nothing about Jesus? Did you see what I wrote in that post?

"And for those who would argue that Jesus never spoke out about gay sex, there's the following: Jesus is God (in scripture). As God, Jesus is the one who gave Moses the Leviticus law against gay sexual relations to begin with; and he’s the one who inspires all Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16), including prohibitions against gay sexual relations in Romans 1:26-27 and I Corinthians 6:9-10, etc. It’s also worth noting that Jesus didn’t mention wife beating or other sins such as pedophilia either, and there are not many folks who would argue he approved of those behaviors. So Jesus was under no obligation to reiterate the moral laws against homosexual sin that already existed, unless there were clarifications to be made."

Damn. Deus ex machina in the Bible, who would have guessed. Thr infinity card. Jesus is everywhere and everything so whatever I pick out of that nearly random collection of stories called the Bible is straight from Him. Do you follow all the laws in Leviticus? Jesus told you to, didn't He?

 

[Brochacholomigo]

Damn. Deus ex machina in the Bible, who would have guessed. Thr infinity card. Jesus is everywhere and everything so whatever I pick out of that nearly random collection of stories called the Bible is straight from Him. Do you follow all the laws in Leviticus? Jesus told you to, didn't He?

The collection isn't random - it's a collection that was hand-picked by the early Catholic Church as essential reading. Non-Catholic churches, like the Eastern Orthodox Christians, have a variety of different bibles with additional chapters.

This, of course, only means that there are even more stories to pull from.

 

[CLAX1911]

Little known fact: Hell is a mistranslation of four words: sheol, Hades, Tartarus, and Gehenna. The first two are terms for the grave/afterlife in general, the third was used exactly once to describe where God held the rebellious angels until he sentenced them, and the fourth is a valley in Israel that was used to burn garbage during Jesus's time. Only sheol appears in the Torah.

Every description of Hell as a place of fire, coincidentally enough, is correlated with a Gehenna mistranslation.

I thought it came from Dante's Inferno

 

[Logicman]

Damn. Deus ex machina in the Bible, who would have guessed. Thr infinity card. Jesus is everywhere and everything so whatever I pick out of that nearly random collection of stories called the Bible is straight from Him. Do you follow all the laws in Leviticus? Jesus told you to, didn't He?

You haven't done your research on those, have you? There's moral laws and civil laws and ceremonial laws, etc. Some, like the ceremonial laws, have been made obsolete due to the new priesthood of Jesus Christ.

And sorry to burst your bubble, but the moral laws have never been abolished. Adultery, idolatry, thievery, gay sex, etc., are still sins.

Do you ever do your research on Biblical statements and issues you bring up? It really makes you guys look uninformed.

 

[Excon]

It says abomination

You are hung up on the word abomination instead of the results for the different abominations.
Not all abominations result in the death penalty, or did you somehow think they did?

If you need something modern to relate, think of it like this; Though many things are felonies, not all felonies result in the death penalty.

The word temporary is not in Leviticus. You just made that up.

Depending on which translation you use - What do you think "unclean until evening" or "contaminated until evening" means? Is that not a temporary thing? I would certainly suggest that is temporary even though it does not specifically say "temporary".

Death is not prescribed as punishment for an abomination of the dietary laws.

---

Ah, so in your arrogance you completely disregard the New Testament. Figures. I get that you think your hatred makes you more important than God, but here’s the thing—- he explicitly despises people who think and act like you. Or did you forget the numerous denunciations of the Sadducees and Pharisees?

No, actually your entire argument is based on a minor part of the Old Testament which advocates violating the Ten Commandments(what part of “thou shalt not kill” is so hard for you lot to grasp?) Literally the entire New Testament is a rejection of your message.

You get? iLOL
You get nothing and only make up things to believe.

The so-called new testament has no relevance to this discussion as it does not change the penalty for engaging in gay sex.

You are again projecting things that apparently apply to you.

And your interpretation of the Ten Commandments is severely lacking.
The Commandment is not "thou shall not kill". It translates as shall not murder. That does not cover killing for purposes of law enforcement.

Justified killing: due consequence for crime

The Torah and Hebrew Bible made clear distinctions between the shedding of innocent blood versus killing as the due consequence of a crime. A number of sins were considered to be worthy of the death penalty including murder,[14] incest,[15] bearing false witness on a capital charge,[16] adultery,[17] idolatry,[18] homosexual acts,[9] bestiality,[19] human sacrifice to pagan gods,[20] cursing a parent,[21] fortune-telling,[22] and other sins.

[...]​

Justified killing: due consequence for crime | Wikipedia​

 

[Dragonfly]

The absolute arrogance of the religious mind is astounding.

Not one single person on this Earth today knows what God wants, thinks, demands, expects, or condemns.
Not one person.

The bible was NOT written by God.
The bible was written (and edited) by many fallible and imperfect humans.

Not one single person knows. Not one.

The best anyone can do is extrapolate. It's all a guessing game.

To suggest otherwise is pure arrogance and ignorance.

You are fallible. You are imperfect. Therefore You could be wrong.

YOU do NOT know what God thinks.
YOU do NOT know what God wants.
YOU do NOT know who God condemns.
YOU do NOT know who God accepts.

Of course none of you evangelicals will admit to this, but that doesn't change a thing.

You have no idea what God thinks about gay people and their actions.
You only base your beliefs on what fallible and imperfect men have told you to think.

There is absolutely NO written text from God anywhere. Everything you've read and studied and believed in has been written by men.
Therefore it could all be untruthful on many levels.

Don't claim to KNOW what GOD thinks/wants. You can only speculate.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

One point of contention: B.C.E. Jews were not illiterate, at least not the male ones. Literacy has been a mandatory aspect of the Jewish religion for as long as it has existed.

This is largely the reason why they're so overrepresented among the wealthy and among Nobel Prize recipients; the entire ethnic group has been encouraging their kids toward academic success and higher education for going on three millennia.

The early OT accounts were word of mouth, tribal stories until scribes wrote them down 700 BC. Prior to that, most of them were indeed illiterate.

 

[Excon]

The absolute arrogance of the religious mind is astounding.

Not one single person on this Earth today knows what God wants, thinks, demands, expects, or condemns.
Not one person.

The bible was NOT written by God.
The bible was written (and edited) by many fallible and imperfect humans.

Not one single person knows. Not one.

The best anyone can do is extrapolate. It's all a guessing game.

To suggest otherwise is pure arrogance and ignorance.

You are fallible. You are imperfect. Therefore You could be wrong.

YOU do NOT know what God thinks.
YOU do NOT know what God wants.
YOU do NOT know who God condemns.
YOU do NOT know who God accepts.

Of course none of you evangelicals will admit to this, but that doesn't change a thing.

You have no idea what God thinks about gay people and their actions.
You only base your beliefs on what fallible and imperfect men have told you to think.

There is absolutely NO written text from God anywhere. Everything you've read and studied and believed in has been written by men.
Therefore it could all be untruthful on many levels.

Don't claim to KNOW what GOD thinks/wants. You can only speculate.

G_d gave the Torah to Moses.
Prove that didn't happen. Don't bother, we know you can not do that. So the position you have taken is as arrogant as you think the believers are.

So under those auspices (the Torah being given to Moses) they do know what G_d thinks, wants, condemns and accepts (as limited by what was given to Moses).

 

[HowardBThiname]

G_d gave the Torah to Moses.
Prove that didn't happen. Don't bother, we know you can not do that. So the position you have taken is as arrogant as you think the believers are.

So under those auspices (the Torah being given to Moses) they do know what G_d thinks, wants, condemns and accepts (as limited by what was given to Moses).

No one can prove that God didn't give the Torah to Moses, but, likewise, no one can prove that God didn't channel His words through Mohamed or through Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon faith. If we agree to accept one because it cannot be disproved, then we accept all because we cannot disprove any of them. That leaves us with hundred of religions, each claiming to be the real one.

What we can do is look critically at the stories. Is it really likely that sticks turned into snakes and then snakes talked (as in Genesis) or that Noah really got two of all species on an ark and they survived a massive flood? Do virgins give birth (I know they do in many religions), and do prophets truly part the sea? We know these things don't happen so we can begin to understand that the stories were intended to convince the ignorant -- those who were superstitious and could be influenced by them -- but, there's no excuse for anyone today to buy into them.

Once we know those stories are suspect, we can broaden our thinking to understand that the rest of it is as well.

Just my two cents.

 

[Praxas]

G_d gave the Torah to Moses.
Prove that didn't happen. Don't bother, we know you can not do that. So the position you have taken is as arrogant as you think the believers are.

iLOL, God (not G_d) told me that Christians got it wrong and he loves gay people. He says that some crazy idiot claimed that God gave them rules to abide by. Prove me wrong.

So under those auspices (the Torah being given to Moses) they do know what G_d thinks, wants, condemns and accepts (as limited by what was given to Moses).

iLOL, God (Not G_d) told me that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Prove me wrong.

 

[Grand Mal]

You haven't done your research on those, have you? There's moral laws and civil laws and ceremonial laws, etc. Some, like the ceremonial laws, have been made obsolete due to the new priesthood of Jesus Christ.

And sorry to burst your bubble, but the moral laws have never been abolished. Adultery, idolatry, thievery, gay sex, etc., are still sins.

Do you ever do your research on Biblical statements and issues you bring up? It really makes you guys look uninformed.

You're cherry-picking and justifying leaving the inconvenient stuff behind. The only thing I'm 'uninformed' about is the specific language your particular sect uses for that justification.
"The new priesthood of Jesus Christ", fergawdssake. What did Jesus say about how much he was going to change the Old Testament laws?

 

[Excon]

iLOL, God (not G_d) told me that Christians got it wrong and he loves gay people. He says that some crazy idiot claimed that God gave them rules to abide by. Prove me wrong.



iLOL, God (Not G_d) told me that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Prove me wrong.

iLOL Wrong as usual.

 

[Praxas]

iLOL Wrong as usual.

iLOL Says who? God told me so, not your fake G_d.

 

[Excon]

but, there's no excuse for anyone today to buy into them.

You can definitely determine that for your own self, but not for others.

Once we know those stories are suspect, we can broaden our thinking to understand that the rest of it is as well.

You can certainly believe that if you choose.
No one is stopping you.

 

[Excon]

iLOL Says who? God told me so, not your fake G_d.

iLOL Wrong as usual.

 

[Praxas]

iLOL Wrong as usual.

iLOL You are wrong as usual.

 

[Excon]

iLOL You are wrong as usual.

Yes you are.
iLOL

 

[vegas giants]

You are hung up on the word abomination instead of the results for the different abominations.
Not all abominations result in the death penalty, or did you somehow think they did?

If you need something modern to relate, think of it like this; Though many things are felonies, not all felonies result in the death penalty.



Depending on which translation you use - What do you think "unclean until evening" or "contaminated until evening" means? Is that not a temporary thing? I would certainly suggest that is temporary even though it does not specifically say "temporary".

Death is not prescribed as punishment for an abomination of the dietary laws.

---

You get? iLOL
You get nothing and only make up things to believe.

The so-called new testament has no relevance to this discussion as it does not change the penalty for engaging in gay sex.

You are again projecting things that apparently apply to you.

And your interpretation of the Ten Commandments is severely lacking.
The Commandment is not "thou shall not kill". It translates as shall not murder. That does not cover killing for purposes of law enforcement.

Justified killing: due consequence for crime

The Torah and Hebrew Bible made clear distinctions between the shedding of innocent blood versus killing as the due consequence of a crime. A number of sins were considered to be worthy of the death penalty including murder,[14] incest,[15] bearing false witness on a capital charge,[16] adultery,[17] idolatry,[18] homosexual acts,[9] bestiality,[19] human sacrifice to pagan gods,[20] cursing a parent,[21] fortune-telling,[22] and other sins.

[...]​

Justified killing: due consequence for crime | Wikipedia​

Face it anyway you cut it you are sinning if you eat a lobster. It is an ABOMINATION in the eyes of god.

 

[vegas giants]

G_d gave the Torah to Moses.
Prove that didn't happen. Don't bother, we know you can not do that. So the position you have taken is as arrogant as you think the believers are.

So under those auspices (the Torah being given to Moses) they do know what G_d thinks, wants, condemns and accepts (as limited by what was given to Moses).

No the Flying Spaghetti Monster gave the holy pasta to me.

Prove that didn't happen. LOL

 

[Excon]

Face it anyway you cut it you are sinning if you eat a lobster. It is an ABOMINATION in the eyes of god.

iLOL
This specific discussion was about gay sex being an abomination that requires the death penalty.
Your pointing to another abomination that does not require the death penalty is not only a deflection and an acknowledgement that you have no valid argument to make against the first.

No the Flying Spaghetti Monster gave the holy pasta to me.

Prove that didn't happen. LOL

Now you are deflecting with nonsense all because you can not refute that the abomination of gay sex requires death.

 

[Praxas]

[SUP][/SUP]

Yes you are.
iLOL

iLOL Yes, you are wrong as usual.

 

[vegas giants]

iLOL
This specific discussion was about gay sex being an abomination that requires the death penalty.
Your pointing to another abomination that does not require the death penalty is not only a deflection and an acknowledgement that you have no valid argument to make against the first.



Now you are deflecting with nonsense all because you can not refute that the abomination of gay sex requires death.

Face it. You are committing an abomination unto god everytime you have a crab dinner. That is what your god says. An ABOMINATION. Where is your outrage?

 

[Excon]

iLOL Yes, you are wrong as usual.

Yes you are. I am glad you admit that.

---

Face it. You are committing an abomination unto god everytime you have a crab dinner. That is what your god says. An ABOMINATION. Where is your outrage?

Why you make up bs to believe is beyond me, but your made up beliefs have no relevance here.

 

[Dittohead not!]

What would the pope say to the Christians fighting for the right to discriminate against gay people?

Good question. Perhaps nothing. Instead of telling them they're wrong, he'd simply set the example of what we should be doing.