POLL: Would terrorists be swayed by a "system of compassion?"

[Cardinal]

What are the background facts that determined that 30 or 40 years was the appropriate sentence for these people? The OP doesn’t say.

 

[Deuce]

Strange how much love she has for violent human garbage. I find it extremely hard to believe that she doesn't harbor animosity towards the United States as well as the Jewish people.

Christians say we should have love for all human beings.

I take it you disagree.

 

[Deuce]

It's the great liberal delusion: be nice to bad people and they will be nie to you. Of course the reality is that if you are nice to bad people they will think you are weak and that they can act with impunity.

Omar displays another leftist theme. No one is actually bad - except of course for 'white' men who are all rotten to the core. If bad things are done it always turns out to be our fault.

No, the liberal position is "if you only show brutality to your enemies, they will always be enemies."

Only morons disagree.

 

[Marco Montana]

No! Terrorists want you to convert to Islam, or die

 

[Herkamer63]

I'm going to hold off on my anti-fundamental Muslim rant, for now, and say let's look at it from a different perspective, but relates to the same subject:

I am a firm believer that everything starts at home. Kids learn manners, discipline, values, work ethics, what's real and unreal, and morality, all from their parents while they're growing up. A parent's job is to make sure their kids are equipped with the right set of social and work skills when going out into the real world. Most people, I can confidently say, are usually good, decent, and honest people, regardless where they may stand politically. They believe in the notion of agree to disagree. It's how life should actually be. Make adjustments if you're going through hard times or making wrong decisions, but overall, most people strive to be good. However, there are some that come from homes that don't teach those same values. That's where bad people come from.

There's a number of reasons why bad people are created. The top issue is people without father figures. Whether it be their own biological dad or another man that can point whoever it is in the right direction. A mother's role is important, but a father's is equally as important because his role is the discipline and work ethics fields. Another part of the father's role involves making sure their kids make the right decisions when they're younger, so that when they're older, those same decision making situations comes on easier and it makes sense.

Other reasons involve kids in those homes becoming spoiled, a lack discipline from one or BOTH parents, and told how special they are. Working at a doctors office, I've seen this one to many times. The parents, in fear of either being looked at as negligent or too mean, they become very passive of their children's actions. In other words, they're too nice to them. Nothing wrong with having a good relationship with your own kids, but there comes a time where a line has to be drawn. These parents don't do that. They treat their kids as if they're their best friends. That IS a problem. Same goes when they abuse them. They allow their kids to listen, watch, and believe certain influences without teaching them what's right and what's wrong.

Mental illness is another issue. Even when the parents have done everything they can in help their child/children grow, there are some things that they can't teach any further. Some kids have certain mental problems that they are born with, and discipline can only go so far. Parents, when it comes to this field, typically don't know how to get their kids to understand certain things. Now, that doesn't mean they can't be disciplined nor taught values, but some things are not shown to them in certain ways, trouble could be on the horizon. I'm not against some medication for these people because if it's suppose to help them focus and it has shown results, I'd say do it. It's not exclusively for people with autism, downs, or whatever type of mental retardation because many of them can be raised normally (my youngest brother's autistic, not medicated, and he does just fine). People, like my uncle (long story), who do have problems, need immediate help.

Combine all that, or some of it, with the ideology of Islam, which preaches hatred, oppression, and violence against others, something like a "system of compassion" doesn't mean much at all (especially when they have been brainwashed into believing a destructive religion). Not that people can't change for the better, but when there are other factors, and these other 3 are not the only ones (they're just the top issues), it makes having a "system of compassion" hard to incorporate. Omar is a product of what happens when the home is broken, and follows an ideology that praises and encourages bad behavior. That's how evil is created. Omar will be challenged soon enough, just give it time. She, AOC, and Rashid Talib will all, more than likely, get the boot from Congress, sooner or later. If they don't, we've got bigger problems on our hands than those 3.

 

[joko104]

Ilhan Omar thinks so. I do not.

Here's the text of her Nov 8 letter pleading for leniency of nine convicted terrorists. Agree with her or disagree?

___________

As you undoubtedly deliberate with great caution the sentencing of nine recently convicted Somali-American men, I bring to your attention the ramifications of sentencing young men who made a consequential mistake to decades in federal prison. Incarcerating 20-year-old men for 30 or 40 years is essentially a life sentence. Society will have no expectations of the to be 50- or 60-year-old released prisoners; it will view them with distrust and revulsion. Such punitive measures not only lack efficacy, they inevitably create an environment in which extremism can flourish, aligning with the presupposition of terrorist recruitment: “Americans do not accept you and continue to trivialize your value. Instead of being a nobody, be a martyr.”

The best deterrent to fanaticism is a system of compassion. We must alter our attitude and approach; if we truly want to affect [sic] change, we should refocus our efforts on inclusion and rehabilitation. A long-term prison sentence for one who chose violence to combat direct marginalization is a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty. A restorative approach to justice assesses the lure of criminality and addresses it.

The desire to commit violence is not inherent to people — it is the consequence of systematic alienation; people seek violent solutions when the process established for enacting change is inaccessible to them. Fueled by disaffection turned to malice, if the guilty were willing to kill and be killed fighting perceived injustice, imagine the consequence of them hearing, “I believe you can be rehabilitated. I want you to become part of my community, and together we will thrive.”

Since Democrats claim that asking Comey to give Gen. Flynn a break on prosecution constitutes "obstruction of justice," why aren't Democrats in Congress DEMANDING her prosecution for obstruction of justice and her removal from Congress in her asking to give convicted terrorists a break?

This tells A LOT about the Democrats in Congress, doesn't it? They want it to be CRIMINAL to even ASK to give a prosecution break to a career military American citizen with an otherwise perfect records - and all he did was let a girlfriend look at notes for a biography - while have NO problem with urging giving a break to convicted murderous terrorists.

^ THAT is how much the Democratic Party hates Americans and our military, while being in love with radical Islamic terrorists.

 

[joko104]

No, the liberal position is "if you only show brutality to your enemies, they will always be enemies."

Only morons disagree.

Then the liberal position is idiotic and suicidal.

FDR: "Reward your friends and punish your enemies."

Be brutal to murderous terrorist enemies. Be kind and supportive to friends.

 

[Cassandra]

Agreed.



Not all of the Saudis are toxic or violent. Just the Wahhabi Islamic sect.

Believe it or not, the present King of Saudia Arabia is a reformer, moving more to moderate some long held restrictions such as women driving and holding jobs, if I recall correctly.

You must be kidding?! Where have you been as "the reformer" murders Kashoggi, arrests anyone who criticizes the kingdom, and commits human rights abuses in Yemen?. The Saudis are Wahhabis and they fund the spread of their vile extremism. It is shameful that we are cozy w the Saudis, the source of Islamic extremism while punishing Iran, a far more moderate regime.


New arrests in Saudi Arabia target people with ties to jailed women activists – Women in the World


"Saudi Arabia intensified its crackdown on political activism this week with a new round of arrests targeting people seen to be supportive of women’s rights.

Those detained include individuals with ties to a group of women activists who were arrested in May 2018 for protesting the country’s ban on women driving and its “guardianship laws.” Those women have faced brutal torture and sexual assault while in detention, to the point that they have been unable to walk or stand, according to reports by human rights groups.

The eight people detained this week include a feminist writer who is pregnant, and the son of women’s rights activist Aziza al-Yousef, one of the women arrested last "

 

[ecofarm]

You must be kidding?! Where have you been as "the reformer" murders Kashoggi, arrests anyone who criticizes the kingdom, and commits human rights abuses in Yemen?. The Saudis are Wahhabis and they fund the spread of their vile extremism. It is shameful that we are cozy w the Saudis, the source of Islamic extremism while punishing Iran, a far more moderate regime.

That's head in sand ignorant. That's as clueless about international politics as one can be. Iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world. Hezbollah is Iran. SA cooperates with the US, providing intel and conducting joint operations.

Iran chants, "Death to America. Death to Israel." in its legislature for decades. In Saudi, the terrorist support comes from private sources.

Now, maybe you're too young to remember what SA used to be like. Or maybe you don't understand what "reformer" means, but looking at a snapshot in time through tinted lenses is no way to become informed.

 

[Apocalypse]

That's head in sand ignorant. That's as clueless about international politics as one can be. Iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world. Hezbollah is Iran. SA cooperates with the US, providing intel and conducting joint operations.

Iran chants, "Death to America. Death to Israel." in its legislature for decades. In Saudi, the terrorist support comes from private sources.

Now, maybe you're too young to remember what SA used to be like. Or maybe you don't understand what "reformer" means, but looking at a snapshot in time through tinted lenses is no way to become informed.

Yeah. People tend to forget that a "reform" can be a gradual process.

 

[Apocalypse]

No, the liberal position is "if you only show brutality to your enemies, they will always be enemies."

They won't be anything.

 

[ecofarm]

Yeah. People tend to forget that a "reform" can be a gradual process.

I'm not sure how they forget the Iranian legislature chants "Death the America" and funds Hezbollah while Saudi shares intel and conducts joint operations.

What kind of staggering dumbassery is it to claim Iran is the moderate?

Two neighbors. One funds gangs to attack you and your house and chants "Death to you" each Friday. The other shares video from his security cameras and joins you in court. Who's the moderate?

And we might note that Putin would like nothing more than a rift between the US and Saudi. What does that say about those gaslighting geopolitics.

 

[Felis Leo]

Ilhan Omar thinks so. I do not.

Here's the text of her Nov 8 letter pleading for leniency of nine convicted terrorists. Agree with her or disagree?

___________

As you undoubtedly deliberate with great caution the sentencing of nine recently convicted Somali-American men, I bring to your attention the ramifications of sentencing young men who made a consequential mistake to decades in federal prison. Incarcerating 20-year-old men for 30 or 40 years is essentially a life sentence. Society will have no expectations of the to be 50- or 60-year-old released prisoners; it will view them with distrust and revulsion. Such punitive measures not only lack efficacy, they inevitably create an environment in which extremism can flourish, aligning with the presupposition of terrorist recruitment: “Americans do not accept you and continue to trivialize your value. Instead of being a nobody, be a martyr.”

The best deterrent to fanaticism is a system of compassion. We must alter our attitude and approach; if we truly want to affect [sic] change, we should refocus our efforts on inclusion and rehabilitation. A long-term prison sentence for one who chose violence to combat direct marginalization is a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty. A restorative approach to justice assesses the lure of criminality and addresses it.

The desire to commit violence is not inherent to people — it is the consequence of systematic alienation; people seek violent solutions when the process established for enacting change is inaccessible to them. Fueled by disaffection turned to malice, if the guilty were willing to kill and be killed fighting perceived injustice, imagine the consequence of them hearing, “I believe you can be rehabilitated. I want you to become part of my community, and together we will thrive.”

If the only reason someone adheres to a violent ideology is not because they are convinced that the ideology is morally correct, but because they were missing compassion in their lives and from society at large, certainly. But I am not convinced that that is the case. Some of the most horrific terrorists in history were brought up in loving homes and in societies in which they were not cruelly marginalized.

 

[Felis Leo]

Red:
She's right about that, so I agree with it.


Blue:
That, frustration over their inability to self-actualize, seems to have been a material motivator of a host of recent US terrorists.

And would you grant that same consideration for white supremacist and neo-Nazi terrorists, Xelor? Or is it just swarthy Middle Easterners who have such low expectations placed upon them?

 

[Felis Leo]

What are the background facts that determined that 30 or 40 years was the appropriate sentence for these people? The OP doesn’t say.

Well, if they wanted to go gallivanting across the Levant to massacre non-Muslims and purchase some Yazidi rape-slaves, I think 30 to 40 years is too short a sentence, personally.

 

[ecofarm]

If the only reason someone adheres to a violent ideology is not because they are convinced that the ideology is morally correct, but because they were missing compassion in their lives and from society at large, certainly. But I am not convinced that that is the case. Some of the most horrific terrorists in history were brought up in loving homes and in societies in which they were not cruelly marginalized.

Some people are born sociopaths and seek the convenient excuse to be horrific.

 

[Cardinal]

Well, if they wanted to go gallivanting across the Levant to massacre non-Muslims and purchase some Yazidi rape-slaves, I think 30 to 40 years is too short a sentence, personally.

It's not the sort of thing I'd do, to be sure. But when handing down sentences, judges typically take into consideration things like criminal records, attitude in court, recognition of the wrongess of their deeds, etc. The OP presents absolutely none of this context. I can't tell if the defendants in question were hardened criminals or butt****-idiot college kids on Spring break.

 

[Felis Leo]

Some people are born sociopaths and seek the convenient excuse to be horrific.

True, ecofarm. But then, no amount of compassion would sway them either since people with anti-social personality disorders such as sociopaths or psychopaths do whatever their uninhibited whims dictate no matter how kind and accepting people and society in general are to them. I have yet to be convinced that all members of ISIS, or members of Neo-Nazi groups or violent Stalinist-style Communist groups are suffering from mental disorders. I'm not sure there are enough genuine psychopaths to fill their ranks or to coordinate with one another effectively since psychopaths tend to be narcissistic and lack any real since of camaraderie that these terror groups often seem to have in spades.

 

[Moderate Right]

Ilhan Omar thinks so. I do not.

Here's the text of her Nov 8 letter pleading for leniency of nine convicted terrorists. Agree with her or disagree?

___________

As you undoubtedly deliberate with great caution the sentencing of nine recently convicted Somali-American men, I bring to your attention the ramifications of sentencing young men who made a consequential mistake to decades in federal prison. Incarcerating 20-year-old men for 30 or 40 years is essentially a life sentence. Society will have no expectations of the to be 50- or 60-year-old released prisoners; it will view them with distrust and revulsion. Such punitive measures not only lack efficacy, they inevitably create an environment in which extremism can flourish, aligning with the presupposition of terrorist recruitment: “Americans do not accept you and continue to trivialize your value. Instead of being a nobody, be a martyr.”

The best deterrent to fanaticism is a system of compassion. We must alter our attitude and approach; if we truly want to affect [sic] change, we should refocus our efforts on inclusion and rehabilitation. A long-term prison sentence for one who chose violence to combat direct marginalization is a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty. A restorative approach to justice assesses the lure of criminality and addresses it.

The desire to commit violence is not inherent to people — it is the consequence of systematic alienation; people seek violent solutions when the process established for enacting change is inaccessible to them. Fueled by disaffection turned to malice, if the guilty were willing to kill and be killed fighting perceived injustice, imagine the consequence of them hearing, “I believe you can be rehabilitated. I want you to become part of my community, and together we will thrive.”

Yeah. Terrorists show us a lot of compassion. These people should be jailed for life because I actually agree with her, we shouldn't be releasing these people back into society. But, if Bernie becomes president, maybe we can let these people vote.

 

[Moderate Right]

Anything that de-radicalizes a radicalized man and prevents him from committing violence, I'm all for.

:roll::roll:

 

[Moderate Right]

Ilhan Omar thinks so. I do not.

Here's the text of her Nov 8 letter pleading for leniency of nine convicted terrorists. Agree with her or disagree?

___________

As you undoubtedly deliberate with great caution the sentencing of nine recently convicted Somali-American men, I bring to your attention the ramifications of sentencing young men who made a consequential mistake to decades in federal prison. Incarcerating 20-year-old men for 30 or 40 years is essentially a life sentence. Society will have no expectations of the to be 50- or 60-year-old released prisoners; it will view them with distrust and revulsion. Such punitive measures not only lack efficacy, they inevitably create an environment in which extremism can flourish, aligning with the presupposition of terrorist recruitment: “Americans do not accept you and continue to trivialize your value. Instead of being a nobody, be a martyr.”

The best deterrent to fanaticism is a system of compassion. We must alter our attitude and approach; if we truly want to affect [sic] change, we should refocus our efforts on inclusion and rehabilitation. A long-term prison sentence for one who chose violence to combat direct marginalization is a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty. A restorative approach to justice assesses the lure of criminality and addresses it.

The desire to commit violence is not inherent to people — it is the consequence of systematic alienation; people seek violent solutions when the process established for enacting change is inaccessible to them. Fueled by disaffection turned to malice, if the guilty were willing to kill and be killed fighting perceived injustice, imagine the consequence of them hearing, “I believe you can be rehabilitated. I want you to become part of my community, and together we will thrive.”

Funny how she wants to put the screws to Trump but terrorists, let's let them go free.

 

[Cassandra]

That's head in sand ignorant. That's as clueless about international politics as one can be. Iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world. Hezbollah is Iran. SA cooperates with the US, providing intel and conducting joint operations.

How many Shias are involved w Isis? How many Shias have committed suicide bombings? Listen, the media does not frequently talk about the fact that Iran and the U.S. were on the SAME SIDE against ISIS. Isis is a mortal threat to Iran and all Shias. Compare that to the decades long support for Madrasas and the fact that most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudi and the sources of funding for them

Iran chants, "Death to America. Death to Israel." in its legislature for decades. In Saudi, the terrorist support comes from private sources.

Are you too young to know that the U.S. overthrew an elected leader of Iran and then installed the hated Shah? Are you too young to remember that the U.S. provided Saddam Hussein with support and Intel to wage a murderous war of aggression against Iran that killed and maimed thousands?

Now, maybe you're too young to remember what SA used to be like. Or maybe you don't understand what "reformer" means, but looking at a snapshot in time through tinted lenses is no way to become informed.

Are you really falling for S.A. window dressing? The Saudis are sending their agents to foreign nations to kill or harass any Saudi national that dares criticize the country. Their alleged moderation is a fig leaf.

P.B.S. FRONTLINE:

"A madrassa is an Islamic religious school. Many of the Taliban were educated in Saudi-financed madrassas in Pakistan that teach Wahhabism, a particularly austere and rigid form of Islam which is rooted in Saudi Arabia. Around the world, Saudi wealth and charities contributed to an explosive growth of madrassas during the Afghan jihad against the Soviets. During that war (1979-1989), a new kind of madrassa emerged in the Pakistan-Afghanistan region -- not so much concerned about scholarship as making war on infidels. The enemy then was the Soviet Union, today it's America...."

Now, compare that w the Iranian people (I do not mean the Mullahs). Again, you can watch PBS Frontline if you want a glimpse into the life of the typical Iranian. Women have to wear scarves out doors- that is about it. Iranian people are very pro West- given a chance. Yet, Trump has undermined moderates and reformists in Iran by reimposing sanctions.

It is not at all certain that the 9/11 terrorists were privately funded:
From FACTCHECK

Zacarias Moussaoui, a convicted 9/11 co-conspirator, says members of Saudi Arabia’s royal family helped finance al Qaeda in the years just prior to the 2001 terrorist attacks. The Saudi government says that “there is no evidence to support Moussaoui’s claim,” citing U.S. government investigations. Who’s right?

We can’t say for sure, in part because a 2002 joint House-Senate report contains a 28-page section on al Qaeda’s “specific sources of foreign support” that remains classified.

 

[ecofarm]

Zacarias Moussaoui, a convicted 9/11 co-conspirator, says members of Saudi Arabia’s royal family helped finance al Qaeda in the years just prior to the 2001 terrorist attacks. The Saudi government says that “there is no evidence to support Moussaoui’s claim,” citing U.S. government investigations. Who’s right?

The US and the rest of the world's intelligence community can't be correct, huh?

Thanks, Putin.

 

[Deuce]

No! Terrorists want you to convert to Islam, or die

Um, the dude who burnt down those black churches probably didn't have that as a goal actually.

 

[Deuce]

Funny how she wants to put the screws to Trump but terrorists, let's let them go free.

She didn't say "zero days in prison," actually.